Speculation: 2024-25 Coaching/Management/Ownership

[MMC]

I'll be fine with Verbeek being a jerk when the team is good. Until it is, it seems like an impediment. And I'd much rather he not be; it's more fun to root for a team that employs good people.

Equating someone’s negotiating to their character is pretty funny and overdramatic

 

[Gliff]

Na, people are getting fed up with the team being f***ing terrible and reports like this just go to show the team is rotten to the core. It doesn't really matter WHY the agents don't like dealing with our management, it's a problem.

Because they nickel and dime people? How the f*** does that make them rotten lol.
Would you rather they overpay everyone and be loved by agents?

It's like you are looking for something to be mad at.

 

[MMC]

Would you rather they overpay everyone and be loved by agents?

I seriously feel for the majority of people this team is damned if they do and damned if they don’t when it comes to free agents, people don’t like that this team didn’t bring in any big names last year but also don’t like the contracts the likes of Stamkos, Marchessault, and Montour got, then with the players the team was able to land like Killorn and Strome people complain about them being overpaid or their contract being too long

 

[Deuce22]

Signing free agents isn’t the route Verbeek should take. Fans dream of the quick fix. We dodged a bullet last offseason, could be Nashville now.

 

[JAHV]

Equating someone’s negotiating to their character is pretty funny and overdramatic

I'm not making that equivalency. This is the quote from the article:

"GM Pat Verbeek) is cranky and runs the show himself and (assistant GM Jeff Solomon) is a grinder. I like those two guys, but tough. I appreciate when they’re a--holes.”

“Verbeek is ridiculous. He draws lines in the sand and sticks by it irrationally,” one said."

For the record, I'm happy to overpay free agents who are good. I would have been fine with Marchessault or Stamkos being here at high prices.

 

[MMC]

I'm not making that equivalency. This is the quote from the article:

"GM Pat Verbeek) is cranky and runs the show himself and (assistant GM Jeff Solomon) is a grinder. I like those two guys, but tough. I appreciate when they’re a--holes.”

“Verbeek is ridiculous. He draws lines in the sand and sticks by it irrationally,” one said."

For the record, I'm happy to overpay free agents who are good. I would have been fine with Marchessault or Stamkos being here at high prices.

Yeah again you’re taking a quote from an agent on what it’s like to do business with him and turning it into some sort of character declaration, I think you’re reaching pretty hard there. I also don’t agree at all that having Stamkos here producing at a 47 point pace while making more than $8 million a year (however much more it would need to be to swing him from the no taxes in Nashville) would do anything for this team besides massively decrease their flexibility

 

[ohcomeonref]

Because they nickel and dime people? How the f*** does that make them rotten lol.
Would you rather they overpay everyone and be loved by agents?

It's like you are looking for something to be mad at.

One guy said that they're assholes too. But yeah, nickle and diming players when you should be trying to negotiate in good faith and have a good relationship makes them rotten.

Should I be happy about any of this?

 

[JAHV]

Yeah again you’re taking a quote from an agent on what it’s like to do business with him and turning it into some sort of character declaration, I think you’re reaching pretty hard there. I also don’t agree at all that having Stamkos here producing at a 47 point pace while making more than $8 million a year (however much more it would need to be to swing him from the no taxes in Nashville) would do anything for this team besides massively decrease their flexibility

I'm just quoting the agent who said he was a cranky a-hole. I'm not sure how I'm reaching for anything unless you think the agent was lying.

As for the Stamkos thing, I'm in favor of adding good players to the team. If it costs more to do that, fine, but having jerks for front office people is only going to increase the cost it takes to get guys here. People don't want to play for jerks.

 

[Reveille1984]

I think people are just overall fed up with the constant stream of negative exposure and commentary regarding the franchise, on top of the product on the ice being a joke for so long.

Every other week it seems we hear more garbage in the media about either Verbeek being an asshole, Cronin being in over his head, the front office sucks, previous players hated the coaching staff, players don't want to sign here, or whatever else.

This article in an of itself isn't a huge deal, but when added to the pile with everything else you have to admit we've kind of looked like a joke lately.

 

[All Mighty]

For those curious as to why agents prefer dealing with Minnesota, check out the trade clauses they hand out:

And the only guys who don’t currently have one on that list are Boldy (because he’s not old enough) and Trenin, who got a ridiculous contract for his role.

Maybe I would prefer not being so high on the other list, but I prefer that to being on this list. And being on the dislike list also shouldn’t prevent agents from dealing with us. If I were a player and I found out my agent didn’t want to deal with the Ducks because they were too harsh, I’d consider finding a new agent.

 

[Gliff]

One guy said that they're assholes too. But yeah, nickle and diming players when you should be trying to negotiate in good faith and have a good relationship makes them rotten.

Should I be happy about any of this?

What world do you live in lol. Do you think the league LOVES the guys that negotiate for the NHL PA on CBAs? They are literally opposing forces representing the interest of their party that goes in direct opposition of the other party.

Of course a perfect world would be 2 parties coming together to get a great deal for both sides, but agents don't do that so why should GMs be expected to.

 

[ZegrassyKnoll]

You guys are aware that asking agents who their least/favorite GMs are is essentially asking them who makes them the least/most amount of money, right?

 

[ohcomeonref]

What world do you live in lol. Do you think the league LOVES the guys that negotiate for the NHL PA on CBAs? They are literally opposing forces representing the interest of their party that goes in direct opposition of the other party.

Of course a perfect world would be 2 parties coming together to get a great deal for both sides, but agents don't do that so why should GMs be expected to.

Why do you think it is that a lot of actual good times are spoken of highly in the article while our trash team is thrashed? You don't see any correlation there?

As for the bolded: f*** off with the condescending nonsense.

You guys are aware that asking agents who their least/favorite GMs are is essentially asking them who makes them the least/most amount of money, right?

Would you say Tampa Bay/Dallas are bloated with bad contracts? They're spoken-of highly in the article.

I think people are just overall fed up with the constant stream of negative exposure and commentary regarding the franchise, on top of the product on the ice being a joke for so long.

Every other week it seems we hear more garbage in the media about either Verbeek being an asshole, Cronin being in over his head, the front office sucks, previous players hated the coaching staff, players don't want to sign here, or whatever else.

This article in an of itself isn't a huge deal, but when added to the pile with everything else you have to admit we've kind of looked like a joke lately.

It's 100% this. Just seems to be a shit-show from every angle. A small contingent of Ducks fans are pushing back against the tidal wave of shit because of blind homerism it seems.

 

[All Mighty]

Would you say Tampa Bay/Dallas are bloated with bad contracts? They're spoken-of highly in the article.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the no state tax teams are liked by agents. Teams want to keep the AAV down and agents want to maximize the take home pay for their clients. Having no state tax would make it easier to find common ground and make everyone happy.

 

[Tony O]

I think people are just overall fed up with the constant stream of negative exposure and commentary regarding the franchise, on top of the product on the ice being a joke for so long.

Every other week it seems we hear more garbage in the media about either Verbeek being an asshole, Cronin being in over his head, the front office sucks, previous players hated the coaching staff, players don't want to sign here, or whatever else.

This article in an of itself isn't a huge deal, but when added to the pile with everything else you have to admit we've kind of looked like a joke lately.

I have to say, if all of this is true, it reveals a consistent pattern in ownership and upper management to hire individuals with this type of personality. It seems like PV and BM shared the same traits. At some point, it's necessary to point the finger at CEO Michael Schulman and ultimately the Samueli’s. My hot take for the day….

 

[ZegrassyKnoll]

Why do you think it is that a lot of actual good times are spoken of highly in the article while our trash team is thrashed? You don't see any correlation there?

As for the bolded: f*** off with the condescending nonsense.



Would you say Tampa Bay/Dallas are bloated with bad contracts? They're spoken-of highly in the article.



It's 100% this. Just seems to be a shit-show from every angle. A small contingent of Ducks fans are pushing back against the tidal wave of shit because of blind homerism it seems.

It's not about being bloated with bad contracts. Ask yourself this question: if you were an agent, which of these two types of teams do you think would be easier to work with?

Option #1: A team full of proven players that are in a cup window and actively, maybe even desperately spending as much as they can to win.

Option #2: A rebuilding team trying to estimate the value of a bunch of unproven players.

 

[ohcomeonref]

It's not about being bloated with bad contracts. Ask yourself this question: if you were an agent, which of these two types of teams do you think would be easier to work with?

Option #1: A team full of proven players that are in a cup window and actively, maybe even desperately spending as much as they can to win.

Option #2: A rebuilding team trying to estimate the value of a bunch of unproven players.

Absolutely option 1. But it's a lot more than that. It's easy to say: of course nobody wants to work with the Ducks, they're terrible! But if people are actively saying our front end is full of people who are hard to work with, that's just as much as a stain on the organization as the team being terrible for agents and players alike. You think guys are chomping at the bit to come and play under a taskmaster like Cronin? In my line of business, a lot of deals are signed (handshake deals) on the golf course, and nobody is golfing with the assholes. In my estimation, if you're going to be a hard-ass in business you'd better have a sterling record of smart decisions in your back pocket or else you're just the asshole that nobody wants to deal with. Have Cro and Beeker "earned" being assholes?

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the no state tax teams are liked by agents. Teams want to keep the AAV down and agents want to maximize the take home pay for their clients. Having no state tax would make it easier to find common ground and make everyone happy.

No doubt. That just makes it even MORE important that the management from a team (like the Ducks) who happens to be located in a place with exceedingly high state tax, is easy to work with and not a herd of assholes.

 

[ZegrassyKnoll]

Absolutely option 1. But it's a lot more than that. It's easy to say: of course nobody wants to work with the Ducks, they're terrible! But if people are actively saying our front end is full of people who are hard to work with, that's just as much as a stain on the organization as the team being terrible for agents and players alike. You think guys are chomping at the bit to come and play under a taskmaster like Cronin? In my line of business, a lot of deals are signed (handshake deals) on the golf course, and nobody is golfing with the assholes. In my estimation, if you're going to be a hard-ass in business you'd better have a sterling record of smart decisions in your back pocket or else you're just the asshole that nobody wants to deal with. Have Cro and Beeker "earned" being assholes?



No doubt. That just makes it even MORE important that the management from a team (like the Ducks) who happens to be located in a place with exceedingly high state tax, is easy to work with and not a herd of assholes.

I want Cronin gone as much as the next guy (if not more).

I'm just saying asking agents (who are notorious for being assholes themselves) who is hard to work with is kind of a silly way to judge the actual quality of front offices.

 

[KelVarnsen]

Weren't we just talking about a poll 4-5 pages back about how Cronin is viewed by players in the league? Didnt he receive the same percentage of votes as Babcock? 4th worst in the entire league after like a year and a half? I don't think it was agents answering the question.

So, is our organization just full of assholes? Assholes neither agents nor a lot of players want to deal with it appears. Combine this with being a shitty team for so long and high taxes of California and I don't blame players if they want to avoid the organization.

 

[All Mighty]

No doubt. That just makes it even MORE important that the management from a team (like the Ducks) who happens to be located in a place with exceedingly high state tax, is easy to work with and not a herd of assholes.

That's one way to look at it, but you could also say that each cap dollar you spend is more valuable when considering the state taxes, so you should be stingier in giving them out.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

There's a difference between being a tough negotiator and an irrational one that's unpleasant to deal with. Tough to say with certainty, from those quotes, where we fall in.

 

[ff8]

The best thing owners can do is hire the right people

Jury’s out I guess lol

 

[HanSolo]

I'm not one to suggest we need to kowtow to agents who are looking for the best deal possible for their clients but if Verbeek keeps playing hardball with everyone and becomes an incorrigible pain in the ass to deal with, it's going to hurt our ability to retain players when they're up for UFA contracts and attract UFAs from other teams when we already have to contend with a higher tax burden for players coming here, and a recent history of, putting it nicely, mediocrity and less than stellar coaching.

This was bugging me in the back of my head when we were dealing with the Terry, Zegras, and Drysdale contracts but seeing it as such a universally recognized concern from this many player agents, I do worry about how the hardball approach is going to affect player management going forward.

 

[Hey234]

Kind of a non issue here. Lamoriello is known as one of the toughest GMs in the league to deal with and it hasn't affected anything for him. Verbeek is still getting deals done. If the Ducks are hard negotiators, isn't that a good thing? There are so many factors that play into FA decisions that equating the two is nonsensical. Vatrano just signed a unique contract with the Ducks which shows there willingness and ability to work with agents. This is nothing.

The Samueli's trust their employees. They have invested millions in community outreach, OC Vibe, youth hockey programs, etc... They have shown willingness to spend to the cap if there's a chance to win. That should be enough to make them at least neutral owners. They are definitely not bad owners.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

“The guy that makes Anaheim tough is Jeff Solomon," another added. "He does all their contracts. Something as simple as doing entry-level deals … there’s always something they nickel you.”



I know this sounds like a nothing burger but I don't think it is. ELCs are practically dictated verbatim by the CBA. About the only thing there is to negotiate is whether the team will offer the kid the Schedule A and/or Schedule B bonuses in the contract.

Bonus money is relatively minimal by NHL standards and it too is specified verbatim in the CBA. Practically every one of them requires a player to be in the league full time to achieve. Some players get them in their ELC contract some don't.

So, when you have a team as bad as the Ducks, how do you get into a pissing contest over something like this with an 18 Y/O as a way to make a good first impression? The time to be a hard ass is down the road when we are talking guaranteed millions over multiple years.

Throw in Verbeek's reputation as apparently being a dick to work with (and a one man show) as well as an owner who stays totally out of everything and it's easy to see how ANA isn't a place good players are beating down the door to sign with.

I don't think you can just blow all this off with saying it came from agents so none of it matters. It still matters how you treat people if you want to be successful.

Entry Level Performance Bonuses | Puckpedia

Entry Level Contracts are eligible for Performance Bonuses. There are two categories of Performance Bonuses: "A" Level Bonuses "A" Bonuses are worth $212,500 each, to a maximum of $850,000 (maximum 4 achieved). For players signed starting in 2022, "A" bonuses are worth $250,000 each, to a...

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