2024-25 Calder Race

[HeadLiceHatty]

Not that I really care to get involved in this stupid argument of who’s better, but how can you say Matvei is superior offensively as fact when they’re on identical paces so far, while Celebrini is doing most of his work at even strength? Legit question, just doesn’t make much sense to state that as facts

Different usages, different line mates, it’s been proven in this thread? I’m not sure what else needs to be said. Michkov’s 5v5 play has been dominant recently, magically Tippett who barely scored all year has 5 goals in 5 games after being put with Michkov . Guess who his primary line mates were at 5v5 most of the year, Ryan Poehling and 3rd/4th line plugs.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

View attachment 944595

Spin it all you want Michkov >> Celebrini . Their peaks offensively will be different tiers.

 

[Tw1ster]

Different usages, different line mates, it’s been proven in this thread? I’m not sure what else needs to be said.

Ok thanks, I didn’t think Philadelphia would be pairing Michkov with Toffoli and having him play center but you make a fair point

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Spin it all you want Michkov >> Celebrini . Their peaks offensively will be different tiers.

Too soon to say this. Cellebrini has been just as productive this year on a per game basis. He's also pacing for 40 goals over 82.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

Too soon to say this. Cellebrini has been just as productive this year on a per game basis. He's also pacing for 40 goals over 82.

It won’t be close when Michkov gets the same TOI per game and 1st line level linemates, there’s a giant usage disparity.

 

[karltonian]

bedard

 

[zombie kopitar]

It won’t be close when Michkov gets the same TOI per game and 1st line level linemates, there’s a giant usage disparity.

And it won't be close when Celebrini is a year and a half older like Michkov currently is. Oh and then he will be older too, okay so lets rehash this in about 6 years when they are both in their primes. Just stop dude you're gonna be 'that guy' in this thread that will just keep trying to incite everyone with more dulu statements as you double down, like the Sharks having other first line players.

I literally don't care who wins the Calder and hope Michkov does well; Sharks fans are excited about the future and knowing the impact this kid is going to have, that's all that matters.

 

[coooldude]

I think we need to normalize Michkov's incredible season so far. Both for league wide scoring, and for TOI and minutes.

For example, Michkov has 17:32 TOI this year. If he were getting 22 minutes, which he should be, then that's an additional 30% points. 27*1.3= 36, so he should have 36 points in 28 games.

In addition to that, he's currently playing with 3rd line teammates who are scoring let's call it 0.5ppg. if he had better line mates, he'd probably be playing with 1ppg players and assuming that he's in on say half those extra points, that's an extra 0.25ppg for Matvei. Therefore he should really be at, say, 36+7=43 points in 28 games.

This is a 1.53ppg pace, far better than Bedard's Calder season and actually outpacing McDavid, Crosby, and Ovechkin. I think we've seen enough to ask... Are we seeing the best rookie season of all time?

All numbers are illustrative

 

[Fraser28]

You guys go completely radio silent while Michkov is on a heater and Celebrini got caved for 2-3 games straight, it’s hilarious. He’s still superior offensively, those are facts. Doesn’t mean Celebrini isn’t a great young player.

You do get the difference right? We’re never blabbing about how one is way better than the other and then going silent. We say they’re both awesome. You guys weirdly pretend that Michkov is some cut above and then go silent.

 

[Fatass]

You do get the difference right? We’re never blabbing about how one is way better than the other and then going silent. We say they’re both awesome. You guys weirdly pretend that Michkov is some cut above and then go silent.

Two player race for this years Calder: Michkov and Celebrini. No other guys are close.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

It won’t be close when Michkov gets the same TOI per game and 1st line level linemates, there’s a giant usage disparity.

Strong argument that the superior player is the one not on the first line.

 

[Turin]

Celebrini didn’t get enough hype as a prospect

 

[Star Platinum]

As an outsider watching this, really nice rookie class this year with Celebrini, Michkov and Hutson

Just watched some Hutson highlights, as we haven't played the Canadiens yet this year so I haven't seen what he's been up to and man, that kid can skate and pass. Would kill to have a guy who could do that on our team. Habs got a good one there.

 

[Star Platinum]

And it won't be close when Celebrini is a year and a half older like Michkov currently is. Oh and then he will be older too, okay so lets rehash this in about 6 years when they are both in their primes. Just stop dude you're gonna be 'that guy' in this thread that will just keep trying to incite everyone with more dulu statements as you double down, like the Sharks having other first line players.

I literally don't care who wins the Calder and hope Michkov does well; Sharks fans are excited about the future and knowing the impact this kid is going to have, that's all that matters.

I take issue with "gonna be"

 

[Star Platinum]

It won’t be close when Michkov gets the same TOI per game and 1st line level linemates, there’s a giant usage disparity.

Imagine if Celebrini had Scott Laughton to do all the heavy lifting for him like Michkov does...

 

[Star Platinum]

Celebrini didn’t get enough hype as a prospect

Which is strange for the no doubt #1 overall pick, but I guess prospect fatigue is real after a while.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Celebrini is also only 18 and keeping pace offensively while being better defensively. At that age 1 year is a big difference developmentally. Going to be the better player pretty easily imo.

 

[Bizz]

Forget the Calder, Celebrini deserves the Hart at this point of the season. Dude makes Mackinnon and Kucherov look like amateurs.

 

[Acallabeth]

bedard

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

Best post of the thread tbh, I’m dying

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Celebrini didn’t get enough hype as a prospect

He literally went 1 st overall undisputedly . Out of the 2 guys he’s not the one who had their shine wiped off for “ reasons “ ..

 

[Fire Sweeney]

I think we need to normalize Michkov's incredible season so far. Both for league wide scoring, and for TOI and minutes.

For example, Michkov has 17:32 TOI this year. If he were getting 22 minutes, which he should be, then that's an additional 30% points. 27*1.3= 36, so he should have 36 points in 28 games.

In addition to that, he's currently playing with 3rd line teammates who are scoring let's call it 0.5ppg. if he had better line mates, he'd probably be playing with 1ppg players and assuming that he's in on say half those extra points, that's an extra 0.25ppg for Matvei. Therefore he should really be at, say, 36+7=43 points in 28 games.

This is a 1.53ppg pace, far better than Bedard's Calder season and actually outpacing McDavid, Crosby, and Ovechkin. I think we've seen enough to ask... Are we seeing the best rookie season of all time?

All numbers are illustrative

If you play Michkov 22 minutes he will run on empty for the second half of the season as he's never played more than 48 games in a season.

 

[rahad]

If this was the main issue and it wasn’t alsa a possible character issue like I had heard at the time then 5 teams potentially fumbled so hard. Obviously there was the potential that he stayed in the khl until he was 23 or whenever his contract was set to expire but what high end guys on his level have actually stayed in the khl their entire careers. I don’t understand why gms keep making the mistake of passing up on Russian forwards over and over again. I remember hearing about the 2023 draft as “Bedard and Michkov then everyone else” in 2022.

You forgot the war. His 3 years contract and his ''attitude''scared lot of GM. It has also hard to predict when the war has going to end. I can understand drafting Leo Carlsson and Fantilli. 2 big center. But, Michkov should have gone #4 at best.
For the Habs, is beyond annoying to see our GM not drafting Michkov. Our last PPG forward has Alex Kovalev.....Don't know why is so hard to draft or find a PPG forward in Montreal.

 

[MNRube]

You forgot the war. His 3 years contract and his ''attitude''scared lot of GM. It has also hard to predict when the war has going to end. I can understand drafting Leo Carlsson and Fantilli. 2 big center. But, Michkov should have gone #4 at best.
For the Habs, is beyond annoying to see our GM not drafting Michkov. Our last PPG forward has Alex Kovalev.....Don't know why is so hard to draft or find a PPG forward in Montreal.

He should’ve went 1st or 2nd. His resume was incredible and his skills were obvious. GMs have crap job security and are mostly risk averse. He has obviously been a transcendent talent since he was like 15.

 

[Herschel]

He should’ve went 1st or 2nd. His resume was incredible and his skills were obvious. GMs have crap job security and are mostly risk averse. He has obviously been a transcendent talent since he was like 15.

I think "attitude" was code for only wanting to play for a few specific teams.