GDT: 2024-2025 Training Camp

[66-30-33]

Wonderful trade there, Kyle.

2 brain cells for 1 with future considerations attatched?

 

[Gurglesons]

How does trading away at least a good AHL piece not make the Penguins depth worse?

What are you even talking about? "Blocking McGroarty, Koivunen and Ponomarev" has nothing to do with the fact that the Penguins are deeper at forward with Poulin than without Poulin.

The Penguins are focused on having 11-12 NHL forwards no matter what on this roster.

We are lucky to get one open spot for youth due to injury.

If they bring up Poulin over the other three this year, it removes another year of development from the players and they can one step closer to waives similar to what we saw with Poulin.

Give Poulin a fresh break. Give that open roster spot to one of the 20-21 year olds that can actually pan out here.

I don't care about AHL depth.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Penguins are focused on having 11-12 NHL forwards no matter what on this roster.

We are lucky to get one open spot for youth due to injury.

If they bring up Poulin over the other three this year, it removes another year of development from the players and they can one step closer to waives similar to what we saw with Poulin.

Give Poulin a fresh break. Give that open roster spot to one of the 20-21 year olds that can actually pan out here.

I don't care about AHL depth.

Playing in the AHL for longer doesn't "remove another year of development".

This is just stupid. It really seems like there are some posters on here who would rather the Penguins be worse and make moves that hurt them just so they can complain about them.

There have been a lot of comments from people here that are basically "I want something bad to happen to this team to spite them for doing something I don't like", and I fundamentally do not understand how you can look at your favorite team in that mindset. It's the same way when people say "I hope Puustinen gets claimed and lights it up elsewhere, just to show Mike Sullivan is a dumbass", why would you be rooting for that outcome? That's an objectively terrible outcome for the Penguins.

 

[Andy99]

gonna be a fun year of players being day to day for months and sullivan given bitchy snarky little answers to completely reasonable questions meekly asked by reporters staring at their shoes

So, in other words, every year we’ve had this coach…

 

[Gurglesons]

Playing in the AHL for longer doesn't "remove another year of development".

This is just stupid. It really seems like there are some posters on here who would rather the Penguins be worse and make moves that hurt them just so they can complain about them.

There have been a lot of comments from people here that are basically "I want something bad to happen to this team to spite them for doing something I don't like", and I fundamentally do not understand how you can look at your favorite team in that mindset. It's the same way when people say "I hope Puustinen gets claimed and lights it up elsewhere, just to show Mike Sullivan is a dumbass", why would you be rooting for that outcome? That's an objectively terrible outcome for the Penguins.

Sam Poulin is a longshot to make the NHL.

If he was going to make the NHL, he'd need a coach that is actually going to play him NHL minutes.

It is obvious our coach is not going to do that. So why would we waste a roster spot or development spot in the AHL on him?

Cut bait. Cycle in the next young player and hope he can somehow meet the ridiculous expectations our coach sets on young players while icing Noel Acciari, Jeff Carter, and Ryan Graves significant minutes.

I have no problem with players playing in the AHL. But, like I said, I'd rather we give Pono, Koivunen or McG the first call up versus a player like Poulin, Gruden, etc.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sam Poulin is a longshot to make the NHL.

If he was going to make the NHL, he'd need a coach that is actually going to play him NHL minutes.

It is obvious our coach is not going to do that. So why would we waste a roster spot or development spot in the AHL on him?

Cut bait. Cycle in the next young player and hope he can somehow meet the ridiculous expectations our coach sets on young players while icing Noel Acciari, Jeff Carter, and Ryan Graves significant minutes.

I have no problem with players playing in the AHL. But, like I said, I'd rather we give Pono, Koivunen or McG the first call up versus a player like Poulin, Gruden, etc.

Because I don't think cutting Poulin loose for nothing accomplishes anything. It would be one thing if you could get something okay for him, but trading him for a late pick doesn't do anything for the team. If Poulin gets through waivers and has a great year in WBS, you'd be better positioned to get something halfway useful if you trade him or maybe Sullivan gives him a chance with an improved performance. There's enough ice time to go around in WBS to make that possible, WBS isn't cluttered with a bunch of shitty veterans like in past years.

Now if they think he's a lost cause and won't plan on developing him in WBS, sure go ahead and move him. I just think that would be really silly for them to do with what Poulin has shown in the AHL. Poulin should be their 2C while playing with legitimate AHL talent (which is what someone like Bemstrom would be, despite him being a shit NHL player) and seeing if he can still grow as a player, both from the aspects of "he's worthwhile to still develop" and "they have a need for decent centers in their prospect pool". But if they don't think that first thing is true, then yeah sure move him.

 

[Gurglesons]

Because I don't think cutting Poulin loose for nothing accomplishes anything. It would be one thing if you could get something okay for him, but trading him for a late pick doesn't do anything for the team. If Poulin gets through waivers and has a great year in WBS, you'd be better positioned to get something halfway useful if you trade him or maybe Sullivan gives him a chance with an improved performance. There's enough ice time to go around in WBS to make that possible, WBS isn't cluttered with a bunch of shitty veterans like in past years.

Now if they think he's a lost cause and won't plan on developing him in WBS, sure go ahead and move him. I just think that would be really silly for them to do with what Poulin has shown in the AHL. Poulin should be their 2C while playing with legitimate AHL talent (which is what someone like Bemstrom would be, despite him being a shit NHL player) and seeing if he can still grow as a player, both from the aspects of "he's worthwhile to still develop" and "they have a need for decent centers in their prospect pool". But if they don't think that first thing is true, then yeah sure move him.

If Poulin isn't playing NHL games as a 24 year old, I don't really see what the development curve is for him.

He has proven pretty much all he can in the AHL outside of staying healthy.

And I dont see what he would do in the AHL that would bring up his trade value.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If Poulin isn't playing NHL games as a 24 year old, I don't really see what the development curve is for him.

He has proven pretty much all he can in the AHL outside of staying healthy.

He's 23 for most of this season and has missed a ton of games due to injuries, mental health and COVID over the past 4 years. He may just be a dud due to all of that, but I don't think he has played in nearly enough AHL games or is old enough to say "this is a finished product". Someone like Gruden is a finished product, I don't think Poulin is there.

The other aspect is that cutting bait with Poulin just gives a spot to a guy you know is a finished product, because Poulin likely just gets replaced with Huntington in WBS. They have the top-9 center spots for all of Ponomarev, Poulin and Broz to be centers there, moving Poulin just gives one of those spots to someone you know has no NHL upside.

 

[Andy99]

Playing in the AHL for longer doesn't "remove another year of development".

This is just stupid. It really seems like there are some posters on here who would rather the Penguins be worse and make moves that hurt them just so they can complain about them.

There have been a lot of comments from people here that are basically "I want something bad to happen to this team to spite them for doing something I don't like", and I fundamentally do not understand how you can look at your favorite team in that mindset. It's the same way when people say "I hope Puustinen gets claimed and lights it up elsewhere, just to show Mike Sullivan is a dumbass", why would you be rooting for that outcome? That's an objectively terrible outcome for the Penguins.

It’s not a bad outcome for the Pens if they waive Puusty and he becomes a player elsewhere…they decided he wasn’t good enough for them and went in another direction…it is rooting for the player and why is that bad? I think the organization doesn’t make great personnel decisions and there’s nothing wrong with wanting them to have their eyes opened and do better…it’s actually in the long term interest of the Pens to realize their personnel decisions are crap lol…maybe things will change for the better so fans actually should be rooting for them to wake up…

 

[pistolpete11]

This is Poulin's 23 year old season.

DOC, our top line LW, played almost his entire 23 season in the AHL (22 games in the NHL)
Puusy, who people are pissed might be waived, played his entire 23 season in the AHL and started his 24 season in the AHL.
Bunting wasn't an NHL regular until 25.
Rust became a regular half way through his 23 season.

I think it's too earlier to give up on him. I get it. Sully. But making roster moves because the coach sucks is stupid. If the coach sucks, get rid of the coach.

 

[Gurglesons]

This is Poulin's 23 year old season.

DOC, our top line LW, played almost his entire 23 season in the AHL (22 games in the NHL)
Puusy, who people are pissed might be waived, played his entire 23 season in the AHL and started his 24 season in the AHL.
Bunting wasn't an NHL regular until 25.
Rust became a regular half way through his 23 season.

I think it's too earlier to give up on him. I get it. Sully. But making roster moves because the coach sucks is stupid. If the coach sucks, get rid of the coach.

All of those players weren't eligible for waivers.

Bunting broke out because he got away from Arizona.

Same point I'm making with Poulin. I don't think his career is over, but I just don't see the path to success here.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It’s not a bad outcome for the Pens if they waive Puusty and he becomes a player elsewhere…they decided he wasn’t good enough for them and went in another direction…it is rooting for the player and why is that bad? I think the organization doesn’t make great personnel decisions and there’s nothing wrong with wanting them to have their eyes opened and do better…it’s actually in the long term interest of the Pens to realize their personnel decisions are crap lol…maybe things will change for the better so fans actually should be rooting for them to wake up…

You literally just proved my point. You want a bad outcome just to spite the team and make them look like idiots.

 

[HandshakeLine]

If the coach sucks, get rid of the coach.

Guess what we won't do, lmao?

 

[SEALBound]

If Poulin is waived and claimed, I will be sad but not devastated. The harsh reality is, as we get closer to opening night, there will be 31 other teams waiving a Poulin-level player that we could claim to replace them.

I get not wanting a rare 1st round prospect to be given away for nothing but the fact is, Poulin just isn't that good. If he was a 3rd or 4th round guy, everyone would have written him off by now.

He can be a decent bottom 6 player in this league I'm sure but with the current NHL roster and our replenished prospect pool, it's not world ending.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I'm of the opinion that Poulin is at least a 4th liner. But I'm also of the opinion that he likely needs a fresh start with a separate team.

 

[The Old Master]

You literally just proved my point. You want a bad outcome just to spite the team and make them look like idiots.

I'm not sure the team needs any help in that department.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm of the opinion that Poulin is at least a 4th liner. But I'm also of the opinion that he likely needs a fresh start with a separate team.

I just honestly don't see a reason to move on from Poulin right now, unless the team has completely lost faith in any upside in him. I think him spending another year as a top-6 center for WBS won't hurt him, especially with the time he has missed due to injuries and mental health issues. I just don't see the need to jump to "if he's not in the NHL, they should give him away for nothing".

It's better for the team if they continue to try to develop Poulin in a top-6 center role in WBS than just giving him away for nothing. Feel free to debate if that's better for Poulin, but I personally feel like more AHL time would be good for him. Even with his good performance last year for WBS, he only played in 41 games for them. Having a full WBS season with putting up 50-60 points would be good for him if he can do that.

 

[SomeDude]

It began earlier than expected this year. "day to day" on September 18th, questionable for the season opener.

I suppose better to get through it now than to be “sick” for the morning skate in Vegas again.

 

[pistolpete11]

All of those players weren't eligible for waivers.

Bunting broke out because he got away from Arizona.

Same point I'm making with Poulin. I don't think his career is over, but I just don't see the path to success here.

All it takes is for an injury or 2 and then he takes advantage of his opportunity. Exactly what happened with Rust (and Sheary who was also 23) in '15-16

Losing him to waivers would suck, but there's at least a chance he makes it through if you put him on the same time as every other team trying to sneak guys through. I'd take that risk over guaranteeing we lose him by trading him for a 6th round pick or whatever (which is also essentially nothing).

 

[Goodleaf]

I suppose better to get through it now than to be “sick” for the morning skate in Vegas again.

At least that "injury" makes sense.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

All it takes is for an injury or 2 and then he takes advantage of his opportunity. Exactly what happened with Rust (and Sheary who was also 23) in '15-16

But this goes back to the overriding issue of there being too many vets on the team blocking these Poulin types.

If given the choice between a younger guy and a vet, we all know who Sully will select to put in the lineup.
That's why the only thing Dubas should be doing and what he can control is to remove Sully's pacifiers i.e. tired old vets like Accari, Harkins, etc.

This is not about Poulin per se (bc I think Poulin is a dime a dozen guy). It's about the philosophical approach.

I thought Dubas was on the right track by not paying out the nose to retain Jake and removing a Sully/Sid crutch

But then he went backwards with all these "been there/done that" vets in the summer with zero room for young guys. It's maddening to watch...