Speculation: 2024-2025 General Lightning Discussion IV: Down 0-2: ruh roh

[Master P]

It's not one or the other. Cooper is the best coach of this generation and would have probably won 4 Cups if we weren't ravaged by injuries against the Hawks and Avs.

We don't need to be reactionary if we gef swept in round 1. We need to sit down and solve the puzzle. Have we have been figured out (I believe this to be the case) and how do we adapt? Or. How do we fill the missing pieces we need?

We did that in 2019 and almost won 3 straight titles.


Deep breaths king

What? Adapt and alter the team to new challenges? Everyone knows that as soon as something doesn't go your way you need to blow it up and change everything.

 

[Peacefool]

It's not one or the other. Cooper is the best coach of this generation and would have probably won 4 Cups if we weren't ravaged by injuries against the Hawks and Avs.

We don't need to be reactionary if we get booted in round 1. We need to sit down and solve the puzzle. Have we have been figured out (I believe this to be the case) and how do we adapt? Or. How do we fill the missing pieces we need?

We did that in 2019 and almost won 3 straight titles.


Deep breaths king

blowing up is not an option especially when our core is still kinda young and guys like Hagel Cirelli Gekkie Bjork stepps in.

 

[creg]

Hopes and dreams. VASY sucking in the playoffs for the 3rd consecutive year? Like we're gonna have some amazing off-season? Come on...it's ok to say it's over. It happens to every team. Yeah...even us. It's funny like I'm making some outrageous claims on here about the team getting rocked again in the 1st round. Breaking news!!!!

Last year wasn't Vasy's fault but the Toronto series absolutely was, we pretty thoroughly outplayed the leafs but gave up so many softies at horrible times. Also, of course we could have an amazing off-season we have like $10 million to spend without having any big UFA's, all we can do is fill holes. We're actually decently well positioned considering our biggest competitors in the division have cap situations that will require them to either lose talent or at best stay the same.

Regardless, you can think that we should rebuild but literally every move made in the past 2 years has painted a pretty clear picture that it's not going to happen.

 

[T REX]

It's not one or the other. Cooper is the best coach of this generation and would have probably won 4 Cups if we weren't ravaged by injuries against the Hawks and Avs.

We don't need to be reactionary if we get booted in round 1. We need to sit down and solve the puzzle. Have we have been figured out (I believe this to be the case) and how do we adapt? Or. How do we fill the missing pieces we need?

We did that in 2019 and almost won 3 straight titles.


Deep breaths king

Not even upset anymore. It just is what it is...we are no longer contenders. Window is closed. Reality. Not reactionary. Happens to everyone

 

[AlwaysSunnyInTampa]

What? Adapt and alter the team to new challenges? Everyone knows that as soon as something doesn't go your way you need to blow it up and change everything.

My beef is that I found last year's loss and the way we played that whole season to be unacceptable. By ANY standard. I wanted to see a greater change in philosophy than a better defensive zone structure and saving 45 minutes of rope-a-dope against only bad teams. If we are outed in round 1, I want our assistants to be replaced with men who are going to challenge Cooper and the players in the room.

That said, the miracle of Jon Cooper is that he hasn't worn thin. You can't buy the durability has. Or the calm. Or the ability of clearly knowing how to push these guys buttons. And never overreacting.

I am as pissed off as everyone here. But this is like Joe Maddon putting Dan Johnson up in game 162 to save our season on a hunch. I learned that night to never question Joe Maddon again. I learned that I can be upset with things I want to see not happening. But to say "Let's fire the man who has led us to the promised land 4 times and is probably gonna lead Canada to gold in 2026"?


Yeah. That's just f***ing dumb. We can call out Cooper for his shortcomings without calling for his job

 

[AlwaysSunnyInTampa]

Not even upset anymore. It just is what it is...we are no longer contenders. Window is closed. Reality. Not reactionary. Happens to everyone

It would be if we didn't make changes. I think JBB is considering that we have Howard, Cernak and Cirelli flipped and our cap space used to rebuild our bottom 6. If my faith in a championship next year is misplaced and we look this bad again then I'll join your call for a rebuild.

 

[T REX]

Saw some interesting stats...we were outhit 48-28...Just destroyed physically.

And Vasy is 3-9 in his last 12 playoff starts with a lot of goals given up. Well over 3 GAA.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInTampa]

Saw some interesting stats...we were outfit 48-28...Just destroyed physically.

And Vasy is 3-9 in his last 12 playoff starts with a lot of goals given up. Well over 3 GAA.

I think our division has watched us for 5 years and knows how to beat us. It's time to either bust out the chalkboard and draw some X's and O's or purge the fat from our roster and use our cap space for the players who can run our scheme effectively.

I'm a little more than 365 days out from the panic button.

 

[Game suspension]

Not even upset anymore. It just is what it is...we are no longer contenders. Window is closed. Reality. Not reactionary. Happens to everyone

I don't think it's age. It's physicality. The first great move JBB made after SY left was to sign Maroon. He seems to have forgotten that need. When you play in a division against the Panthers that is a pretty big miscue.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInTampa]

I don't think it's age. It's physicality. The first great move JBB made after SY left was to sign Maroon. He seems to forgotten that need. When you play in a division against the Panthers that is a pretty big miscue.

Best news of all is we can get 3 Maroons with the cap space we are gonna have. Like there is no way our ownership and front office is watching this like "Aw gee. Better sign a Glendening"


We did it because that was all we could get at the time

 

[Flat Ronnie]

I'd like to see how next game goes before throwing in the towel. These game 1 blowouts happen quite often for some reason. Not predicting we're gonna win tomorrow, but I bet it's a close game.

I thought it was a weird game. They scored 2 crazy goals in the 1st period. We got our ass kicked (physically), and the PK sucked. Also, our bottom pair got exposed a few times.

The lack of size/physicality was always a known issue that didn't get addressed at the TDL. We ran into the wrong opponent for that in round 1.

 

[JTBF81]

I think it is time for either a new coach bc Cooper has taken these guys as far as he can or we blow it up. It's not working anymore and we're the new penguins. Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. It's time for some tough decisions. If JBB thinks this team is a genuine contender then cooper needs to go. Kuch is getting nullified. That's on cooper. Change is needed.

They have re-tooled, and they will likely continue doing so. There is no "blow up" coming. The team improved this year in every major category except for the power play slipped slightly, but the overall improvements at 5v5 and defensively were considerable. Florida may be a bad matchup right now, but it was just one game. Cooper is very likely not getting fired regardless of what happens in this series, and then JBB will do what he can to improve the team in the offseason. Hopefully that results in a better blueline with a ufa addition or as part of a Howard trade, but the F group is pretty set, or at least the top 9 should be. If Gourde isn't brought back then they likely have room to add one additional bottom 6 F as well, but there won't be any drastic changes to a lineup that was just 1st in gf/g, 4th in ga/g, had a top 5 pp and a top 6 pk.

 

[JTBF81]

It would be if we didn't make changes. I think JBB is considering that we have Howard, Cernak and Cirelli flipped and our cap space used to rebuild our bottom 6. If my faith in a championship next year is misplaced and we look this bad again then I'll join your call for a rebuild.

Neither Cernak nor Cirelli are going anywhere. Both are key pieces to the core on good contracts. Howard can andnperhaps should be moved, but there are no big pieces likely getting traded this summer, just picks/prospects and making ufa additions.

 

[Stammertime91]

Biggest holes in the lineup are the bottom six. Easy. Need to bulk it up and put some guys thats can dictate the game when they're on the ice. Goncalves, Paul and Chaffee are good pieces, but they need help. Gourde is a good option but realistically we need 2 or 3 bottom sixers capable of playing a heavy style. Game 1 and last years series against Florida says it all, the team is a total pushover. Any conclusion stating otherwise is just false. I don't give a shit how many hits Girgensons has, that dude is the most ineffective skater I've seen on Tampa in years. He literally checked himself twice into the wall last night. Glenedning was putrid as well. Neither need to be on the roster for 25-26... bring in two nasty dudes that can give it back and no, not Doug Glatt aka Jeannot types. Guys that can skate, hit and win a f***ing board battle.

 

[JTBF81]

Biggest holes in the lineup are the bottom six. Easy. Need to bulk it up and put some guys thats can dictate the game when they're on the ice. Goncalves, Paul and Chaffee are good pieces, but they need help. Gourde is a good option but realistically we need 2 or 3 bottom sixers capable of playing a heavy style. Game 1 and last years series against Florida says it all, the team is a total pushover. Any conclusion stating otherwise is just false. I don't give a shit how many hits Girgensons has, that dude is the most ineffective skater I've seen on Tampa in years. He literally checked himself twice into the wall last night. Glenedning was putrid as well. Neither need to be on the roster for 25-26... bring in two nasty dudes that can give it back and no, not Doug Glatt aka Jeannot types. Guys that can skate, hit and win a f***ing board battle.

There could be a few options hitting ufa, such as Frederic, Brazeau, maybe Bjugstad or Tanev off the top of my head. I'm sure there a few others as well, not to mention guys they could acquire via trade.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInTampa]

Neither Cernak nor Cirelli are going anywhere. Both are key pieces to the core on good contracts. Howard can andnperhaps should be moved, but there are no big pieces likely getting traded this summer, just picks/prospects and making ufa additions.

Cernak keeps getting hurt and is becoming an unreliable partner. With Cirelli, I am torn. The annual "2 goals in 27 games" shit he does ACTUALLY every year is on my last nerve. Don't get me wrong, his 2 way game is incredible but if we end up keeping him, we need another center in case his scoring snap shit happens in the playoffs too

 

[LightningStrikes]

Saw some interesting stats...we were outfit 48-28...Just destroyed physically.

And Vasy is 3-9 in his last 12 playoff starts with a lot of goals given up. Well over 3 GAA.

More hits and more blocks just means Florida didn’t have the puck much, right? Their shot total of just 17 tells the same story.

When you look at their goals it was the perfect mix of bounces going their way and defensive meltdowns on our part at the worst possible times:

• Bennett with the once in a lifetime kind of goal, redirecting the puck mid-air into the net.
• Reinhart follows it up seconds before the end of the 1st with a perfect redirect.
• Lilly panics with the puck because he doesn’t want to get hit (and ends up getting hit anyway), can’t clear it and then “Schmidt happens” with all the chaos it created.
• Then our top shutdown pairing decides to go for a walk and leaves Matt Tkachuk of all people all alone in front of the net. Couple of nice quick moves and it’s in too.
• On the next goal Vasi gets screened by like four people including a couple in blue.
• And on the last goal Barkov takes Vasi’s eyes away again and provides the perfect screen while our defense is puck watching once more.

Kudos to the Panthers, that was an efficient performance. Tough on the forecheck, bodies in front of our goalie and 3/3 on the PP. We gotta clear the crease, keep it calm and simple on the breakout and somehow figure out their PP.

Edit: Just noticed a guy on the main boards made an almost identical post. Glad I’m not alone with my terrific analysis.

 

[Point21]

Might be in the minority here but one thing ive noticed alot of is Point being thrown out of faceoffs or losing alot of key faceoffs especially on special teams. i think moving him to the wing would not only utilize his speed better but also opens him up more in the offensive zone. Could either move Cirelli up a line or just move Gourde over for the rest of the year. Next year is where it could be tricky as we dont really have a solidified 2C if we moved him to the wing unless we throw trust in Geekie over an offseason to become a faceoff specialist and be better defensively.

 

[JTBF81]

Cernak keeps getting hurt and is becoming an unreliable partner. With Cirelli, I am torn. The annual "2 goals in 27 games" shit he does ACTUALLY every year is on my last nerve. Don't get me wrong, his 2 way game is incredible but if we end up keeping him, we need another center in case his scoring snap shit happens in the playoffs too

Regardless, both will have full ntc's(Cernak already does), and Tampa isn't getting anyone significantly better without paying a lot more. Their trade protection also heavily limits any kind of return. Tampa has thelr top 9 on offense and top 4 on defense (if Moser is to remain at 1RD), through at least the end of next season.

 

[T REX]

I think our division has watched us for 5 years and knows how to beat us. It's time to either bust out the chalkboard and draw some X's and O's or purge the fat from our roster and use our cap space for the players who can run our scheme effectively.

I'm a little more than 365 days out from the panic button.

There is no "panic"...there is only reality. Weird some of the comments. It's like some people don't want to face the facts that we are staring at 3 consecutive first round exits...and we just gotta dominated at home by a guy who hasn't played in months. Wake up.

 

[T REX]

They have re-tooled, and they will likely continue doing so. There is no "blow up" coming. The team improved this year in every major category except for the power play slipped slightly, but the overall improvements at 5v5 and defensively were considerable. Florida may be a bad matchup right now, but it was just one game. Cooper is very likely not getting fired regardless of what happens in this series, and then JBB will do what he can to improve the team in the offseason. Hopefully that results in a better blueline with a ufa addition or as part of a Howard trade, but the F group is pretty set, or at least the top 9 should be. If Gourde isn't brought back then they likely have room to add one additional bottom 6 F as well, but there won't be any drastic changes to a lineup that was just 1st in gf/g, 4th in ga/g, had a top 5 pp and a top 6 pk.

Set, eh? I've seen that story play out for years. Not good enough. I guess it will be a slow burn like it has been recently.

I am not calling for Cooper to be fired. I'm saying that if JBB truly think this team is a contender then he needs a different coach bc Coop isn't getting it done. You c an't have it both ways. Either we're a contender...a top team and Cooper is getting out coached OR the team just isn't good enough and drastic changes need to be made.

 

[T REX]

I'd like to see how next game goes before throwing in the towel. These game 1 blowouts happen quite often for some reason. Not predicting we're gonna win tomorrow, but I bet it's a close game.

I thought it was a weird game. They scored 2 crazy goals in the 1st period. We got our ass kicked (physically), and the PK sucked. Also, our bottom pair got exposed a few times.

The lack of size/physicality was always a known issue that didn't get addressed at the TDL. We ran into the wrong opponent for that in round 1.

Round 1 or 2 you were running into them. Toronto is way better than us as well. They'd kill us. But it matters not.

 

[JTBF81]

Not sure if they can make the space work, but this could be a rough sketch of a lineup next season
Guenztel-Point-Kuch
Hagel-Cirelli-Geekie/OB
Goncalves-Paul-OB/Geekie
Brazeau-Bjugstad-Chaffer/Duke
Girg (if he remains up/on the team)

Hedman-Fabbro
McD-Cernak
Moser-Raddysh
Crozier/Lilleberg/someone acquired in a Howsrd trade

Vasy
Cheap backup

I figure they might be able to squeeze Brazeau, Bjugstad, Fabbro, and a sub 1 million backup G if they move Sheary and can get the contracts to fit. Losing Gourde sucks, but if they want to add more size in the bottom 6, he may have to go.

 

[JTBF81]

Set, eh? I've seen that story play out for years. Not good enough. I guess it will be a slow burn like it has been recently.

I am not calling for Cooper to be fired. I'm saying that if JBB truly think this team is a contender then he needs a different coach bc Coop isn't getting it done. You c an't have it both ways. Either we're a contender...a top team and Cooper is getting out coached OR the team just isn't good enough and drastic changes need to be made.

Lol, yep, 3.6 gf/g and 1st in the league is a "slow burn". Just a terrible top 9 to have next year, plus a full camp with Bjorkstrand, Geekie a year better, possibly another solid promotion with Duke and likely an add or two for the 4th line. Looks real bleak....

 

[RussianGuyovich]

I’d trade cernak in two shakes of a Persian kittens whiskers if someone would trade a mobile RD back to us.