2023 NHL Entry Draft

[BJCOLLINS]

Trading valuable picks for PLD is such a Bergevin move…..why? We, can have him for cash next year!!!!!! Are people really that shortsighted??

 

[Draft]

I understand all these concerns and even agree, but he is not that small, there are many high-level players smaller than him. He still looks like a kid, plus he's one of the youngest in the draft, so yes, he might not have as much room for growth in the overall game, but when he does add a few pounds (and yes, he will) his skating will pass far from be a problem (because the mechanics are excellent, it just lacks power), his shooting will improve, which will make him more capable of beating goalkeepers. So yes, I agree that many will consider the top 5 too high for him, but I'm pretty sure that in a few years many will regret going above 5.

Feels like a lot of ifs for a top-5 pick. His skating mechanics could use a fair amount of work - the hunched over style really limits him. So there could be adjustment there, but I don't think he'll ever be a burner. He might develop his shot, it's true. He might change very little and still fit the Giroux-type as a productive player.

The tough part with the 5-10 group is that we could regret not taking any single one of them in 2-3yrs. I don't remember the last time the Habs were in a situation like this.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Couple player comps I've been feeling lately

Fantilli = Scheifele
Leonard = Debrusk
Dragicevic = Juulsen (pre-injuries)

 

[Draft]

Couple player comps I've been feeling lately

Fantilli = Scheifele
Leonard = Debrusk
Dragicevic = Juulsen (pre-injuries)

Having watched a fair bit of both Dragicevic and Juulsen, I'd have to say that that one is way off. Very very different players. Dragicevic is a bit of a unique case - Evan Bouchard isn't a bad current-NHL comparable.

 

[TomKosto]

I think that Giroux is a very unique player and there's a reason he wasn't a top-5 pick. I'm not saying Benson won't score, I just think that translating his game to the pros will be tricky and that his ceiling may be a bit more limited than we'd like given his limited tools. None of Smith/Reinbacher/Dvorsky are all tools players and there's lots of room to grow both physically and in their overall games. As you're saying, there's a balance. But/Benson is a no brainer for arguing tools/toolbox. However, with very little separating the guys 5-10, I think it's just a harder conversation.

Benson's will is something that I really like. Not a lot of players have that in them and I think that's something that's gonna make him succesfull, it's not all about tools. But yea, we could easily take the wrong guy in the 5-10 range which really sucks. I just hope they don't rush the kid like they did with Slaf, whoever they choose to select.

 

[JotAlan]

Feels like a lot of ifs for a top-5 pick. His skating mechanics could use a fair amount of work - the hunched over style really limits him. So there could be adjustment there, but I don't think he'll ever be a burner. He might develop his shot, it's true. He might change very little and still fit the Giroux-type as a productive player.

The tough part with the 5-10 group is that we could regret not taking any single one of them in 2-3yrs. I don't remember the last time the Habs were in a situation like this.

I agree, but if you do not take into account the "ifs" you will have to choose a Danielson type in 5, a player with almost no defects, but with a much lower ceiling. That's why there's such a fine line between these choices. That's why I pick Benson in 5 because after the top 4 he is the player who will have the highest ceiling if he reaches his full potential. And make sure you're not second only to Bedard/Michkov, imo.

 

[Jaynki]

Trading valuable picks for PLD is such a Bergevin move…..why? We, can have him for cash next year!!!!!! Are people really that shortsighted??

Its you that are shortsighted because you only see this situation from a "dont spend asset" point of view.

There is some major positive in bringing PLD now instead of letting him rot one more year in Winnipeg.

1) you won't have any competition to lock his services long term.

2)its a big proof of commitment and it will start the relationship between habs and pld the right way.

Listen, i do agree about not giving our A+ pieces, but FLA 1st + is a really small price for PLD.

The actual Bergevin moves is actually to hold onto your pick instead of surrounding your core and then drafting a bust and lowballing PLD comes july 1st and then crying about loyalty if he sign elsewhere.

Doing good businesses for all parties involved imply the Habs to make a push via trade for PLD and lock him ASAP. We will have a much easier time to lock him 8 years at a reasonable AAV if we acquire him now than if we wait.

 

[TomKosto]

Its you that are shortsighted because you only see this situation from a "dont spend asset" point of view.

There is some major positive in bringing PLD now instead of letting him rotting one more year in Winnipeg.

1) you won't have any competition to lock his services long term.

2)its a big proof of commitment and it will start the relationship between habs and pld the right way.

Listen, i do agree about not giving our A+ pieces, but FLA 1st + is a really small price for PLD.

The actual Bergevin moves is actually to hold onto your pick instead of surrounding your core and then drafting a bust and lowballing PLD comes july 1st and then crying about loyalty if he sign elsewhere.

Doing good businesses for all parties involved imply the Habs to make a push via trade for PLD and lock him ASAP. We will have a much easier time to lock him 8 years at a reasonable AAV if we acquire him now than if we wait.

Can y'all talk of that in the PLD thread?!

 

[Jaynki]

Can't y'all talk of that in the PLD thread?!

Would be nice

 

[TomKosto]

Would be nice

Well don't spend time replying with a 150words response in the Draft thread maybe?

 

[Draft]

Benson's will is something that I really like. Not a lot of player have that in them and I think that's something that's gonna make him succesfull, it's not all about tools. But yea, we could easily take the wrong guy in the 5-10 range which really sucks. I just hope they don't rush the kid like they did with Slaf, whoever they choose to select.

He's got the drive, no question about that.

The other option is going the Slafkovsky route but playing it a bit safer. Going with Dvorsky or Reinbacher in the AHL would make a lot of sense. Dvorsky's offensive upside gets downplayed trying to make it all work in a men's league as a 17yo, but if you watch him against his peers, he's got all kinds of offensive potential (despite being a bit slow to make decisions with the puck on his stick, which I don't like). Reinbacher is similar - if he was putting up over a PPG in the WHL and playing hard nosed defence (absolutely possible given how he compares to other players his age), he'd be lauded as a two-way monster worthy of that 5OA pick.

I don't know enough about Smith to make a confident assessment - I haven't watched any USNDP league play. The numbers are pretty exceptional though and they've been pumping out some great players.

 

[Jaynki]

Well don't spend time replying with a 150words response in the Draft thread maybe?

Its like heroin, its stronger than me.

 

[Draft]

I agree, but if you do not take into account the "ifs" you will have to choose a Danielson type in 5, a player with almost no defects, but with a much lower ceiling. That's why there's such a fine line between these choices. That's why I pick Benson in 5 because after the top 4 he is the player who will have the highest ceiling if he reaches his full potential. And make sure you're not second only to Bedard/Michkov, imo.

Given his limited physical skillset, I don't think he has the highest ceiling. I think his IQ and drive offers him a very high floor though. If his high-IQ, productive A-game doesn't work, you can be pretty confident you'll still have a useful 3rd line player that can play on both sides of the puck.

 

[TomKosto]

He's got the drive, no question about that.

The other option is going the Slafkovsky route but playing it a bit safer. Going with Dvorsky or Reinbacher in the AHL would make a lot of sense. Dvorsky's offensive upside gets downplayed trying to make it all work in a men's league as a 17yo, but if you watch him against his peers, he's got all kinds of offensive potential (despite being a bit slow to make decisions with the puck on his stick, which I don't like). Reinbacher is similar - if he was putting up over a PPG in the WHL and playing hard nosed defence (absolutely possible given how he compares to other players his age), he'd be lauded as a two-way monster worthy of that 5OA pick.

I don't know enough about Smith to make a confident assessment - I haven't watched any USNDP league play. The numbers are pretty exceptional though and they've been pumping out some great players.

I don't really like going with the safer pick at 5. We did it last year like you said. We need to swing for the fence like the Leafs did it with Marner. Benson skating can be improve, lot of our prospect did it in the past years. I really like Dvorsky too, I just don't see him being a PPG player in the NHL, I could be wrong though. For me it goes down to Smith or Benson, and I tend to go with Benson because of his motor and drive. Just look what drive did to a Gallagher with limited talent. I don't know if his drive is at the same lvl, but he's a way better prospect than Gally was. Smith to be honest I don't know much about him but seems to be a player with super tools but maybe not the most competitive guy?

 

[Vachon23]

Not sure I get the counter-argument that Benson only scores because of his IQ. Didn’t Claude Giroux base his entire career off that? Not big, not fast, not an elite shot. Just smarter than 99% of players and works his ass off. I’d much rather that than someone who only has tools. Josh Anderson should be a Top 10 winger with all of his tools.

I see a lot of Claude Giroux in Zach Benson

 

[BergevinBurner]

Can y'all talk of that in the PLD thread?!

 

[De Montreal]

I'll preface this by saying that I love what Benson brings to a team. I think he can impact the game in more ways than just offence and I like him a lot more than Savoie/Geekie that were also high picks on the same team.

However, I've got big reservations with taking this type of player at 5/6. Small, poor skater, average shot, significant injury, and a winger to boot. He's agile, but he gets caught in straight lines by junior defenceman. He scores, but it's almost entirely because of his IQ and he definitely won't beat NHL goalies with his shot consistently. He's feisty and committed, but he's small and has already faced a major injury. Huge production, but plays on arguably the best offensive team in junior hockey. We can take the best player available at any position, but the value of a player that can play RD/C is always going to be higher.

Even with all the great things to Benson's game, I'm not sold. I don't see a huge amount of room to grow in a player that already does just about everything right. I'm not going to be upset if we pick him and I think he's going to be a great player. However, given where our pick is going to line up... the upside of Reinbacher, Dvorsky, and Smith is going to be veery hard to overlook.

Interesting post but werent you also the poster who didnt want anything to do with Caufield?

 

[Draft]

I don't really like going with the safer pick at 5. We did it last year like you said. We need to swing for the fence like the Leafs did it with Marner. Benson skating can be improve, lot of our prospect did it in the past years. I really like Dvorsky too, I just don't see him being a PPG player in the NHL, I could be wrong though. For me it goes down to Smith or Benson, and I tend to go with Benson because of his motor and drive. Just look what drive did to a Gallagher with limited talent. I don't know if his drive is at the same lvl, but he's a way better prospect than Gally was. Smith to be honest I don't know much about him but seems to be a player with super tools but maybe not the most competitive guy?

Sorry, to clarify, I don't think Slafkovsky was a safe pick at all. I thought it was a huge home-run swing. I'm talking about the option of taking a safer development route - having Reinbacher or Dvorsky in the AHL and investing in the development of more toolsy players.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Ironic that Dvorsky is viewed as the safe pick when he’s got some of the best tools in the draft. The fact he’s safe and got great tools should tell you that he’s a great prospect.

 

[TomKosto]

Sorry, to clarify, I don't think Slafkovsky was a safe pick at all. I thought it was a huge home-run swing. I'm talking about the option of taking a safer development route - having Reinbacher or Dvorsky in the AHL and investing in the development of more toolsy players.

Okok I saw Cooley last year as the homerun swing more than Slaf but thanks to clarify.

 

[Seb]

I'm torn between Benson and Dvorsky but I'd take Reinbacher before both. I think the offensive concerns for Dvorsky and Reinbacher are legitimate but they've got untapped potential. The rest of their tools makes me drool.

 

[Draft]

Interesting post but werent you also the poster who didnt want anything to do with Caufield?

No, I don't think so. At the draft I was leaning toward Krebs as we were desperate for a C and having seen him play live I thought he was a very solid prospect despite the injury. Still is. It was a toss up at the time and I would have played it safe. Looking back of course I'm happy that the gamble we took worked out. I don't have an issue with small players.

 

[JotAlan]

Given his limited physical skillset, I don't think he has the highest ceiling. I think his IQ and drive offers him a very high floor though. If his high-IQ, productive A-game doesn't work, you can be pretty confident you'll still have a useful 3rd line player that can play on both sides of the puck.

That's what I can't understand. How to choose Smith over Benson? If his floor is higher than Smith's and the ceiling is similar.
If Benson doesn't hit the roof he'll be a great complementary player and Smith will be what? Anything. Bigger floor, similar roof, not like Smith before Benson.
The only one I can see ahead of Benson out of the Smith/Dvorsky/Reinbacher is Reinbacher simply for being a D

 

[pylero]

I love the Smith-Zegras comparisons, as they offer the same dynamism with their speed and hands, and coming with similar concerns on the defensive end. Knowing how starved we are for offence, Smith sounds like a good home run swing for a ppg player.

The other popular choice is Zach Benson. I'm seeing seeing parallels between Benson and Travis Konecny: smallish playmaking wingers with a solid shot, coupled with a good motor and relentless effort. Am I far off?

I do like Konecny and see him as en excellent complimentary player on a top 6, but not a core piece on a contender. He's a level below the elite playdriving wingers in the league. I wonder if Benson is in the same mold.

Very hard to rank Smith and Benson... making Reinbacher an easier pick to make.

 

[BJCOLLINS]

Trading valuable picks for PLD is such a Bergevin move…..why? We, can have him for cash next year!!!!!! Are people really that shortsighted??