I don't believe Vatrano is for long in Anaheim. And either way, it's definitely Terry before Vatrano
Injury Report: 2023-24 Injury thread (McGinn out 4 months after back surgery)
- Thread starter Leonardo87
- Start date
EbonyRaptor
Registered User
Welcome to the race to the bottom. The Sharks are currently in "1st place" with 23 points in 42 games, the Hawks are next with 26 points in 42 games and then you guys with 29 points in 41 games. Ottawa has only 28 points but they've played only 37 games.
With half the season to go it should be a helluva race.
With half the season to go it should be a helluva race.
The Midnight Burrito
True Fan
To the tankies -- this is what you're associating with.
Zegras probably has the same break that I did. If he is getting surgery, then they will be putting a screw, or plate in to stabilize the bone. Need a cast for 6 weeks then rehab for 6 weeks. Of course mine happened 16 years ago so they could have new technology. Should be full recovery though.
Although based on the news 6-8 weeks, he probably did not dislocate his ankle so that is better news.
Although based on the news 6-8 weeks, he probably did not dislocate his ankle so that is better news.
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Whether we all like it or not, our team has no shot. Unintentional tanking this year is back on the menu
The Midnight Burrito
True Fan
"Unintentional" -- different things at play there for me. Last season was a deliberate tank by management and it was disgraceful. This season I don't think was supposed to be this bad but injuries are what they are. The load management garbage is kind of a gimmick but I grant they might buy into it, but even so, it shows at least some disinterest in whether games are won or lost. And I doubt they'll do much to stabilize the tailspin we're probably heading for (arguably been in for a while). Tank-by-shrugging, I guess.
But a team's fans rooting for it to lose is always intentional, obviously. And it's crap. It f***s up the board, it brings in the trash from outside, and frankly it just showcases a mental weakness that ought to be fought against rather than indulged. It says, the thing I want to root for might not happen so I'll just root for the opposite, probably won't have to feel bad, and I can justify it with a fantasy that says it's actually smart. It's not, you don't affect reality, the future is coming regardless of what you root for, but in the meantime you've debased yourself by rooting against the team you're supposedly a fan of. It's thumb sucking.
And it doesn't belong here. I like you ohcomeonref but I'm not going to change my mind or stop being a pain in the ass about it.
I respect this line of thinking and I will not be cheering losses this year but I've resigned myself to what you eloquently called the "tank by shrugging" mindset.
I'm still going into every game hoping (not expecting) to win. I get mad during the games when refs blow calls (especially if I go to the games), but I'm not upset after the game ends. Unless there's an injury, then I'm made.
Disrgraceful but necessary is how i see it. We clearly needed a forward of Carlsson's calibre - we don't have one otherwise.
I continue to respectfully disagree with you about the load management - I think there was plenty of thought and analysis and intention behind it, and I think the idea was solid. And I don't think it suggested an indifference to winning - Verbeek's stated goal was for Carlsson to be better in the second half (i.e. contribute more toward winning) than rookies often are. His statements made it clear the Ducks thought they could get more overall value from Carlsson with the load management plan than by playing him every game in the first half. I view this the same way baseball teams don't pitch their best pitchers every day. There's no real precedent for it in hockey, and I think it probably only increases value in extremely limited circumstances, but for a guy like Carlsson, it could make sense. We'll never know if it would have worked (and this is true whether Carlsson got hurt or not). I can't argue that it would have worked - I have no idea - but I don't think it is reflective of a disinterest in winning.
As for the rest regarding tanking, I'm with you. Last season sucked, certainly because the team was bad, but also because fans rooting for their team to lose is stupid. It's antithetical to being a fan. We watch sports to be entertained, and we pick teams to follow and root for because having an emotional attachment makes the payoff greater. I can't watch a game and hope the Ducks lose. What's the point of being a fan then?
Last year I knew that the Ducks weren't going anywhere, which dulled the pain of the losses. I wasn't rooting for losses but I was ok with losses (which sucked in its own way, but it was the only way to get through that flaming dumpster fire of a season). I can't be any more. I don't want the team to lose and I don't want to be ok with losing. I want the team to win. The game last night was awful, even if it made their draft position better and increased the odds of getting a stud player in June. I don't want to watch crap like that any more.
I don't think it makes sense to add any short-term help to get better at the expense of long-term assets, but I'm ok with them picking up players from waivers who will improve the team right now. And I'll grit my teeth when Henrique gets traded, but that's just how expiring contracts work in this league for bottom teams. But no more rooting for them to lose. It's not fun. And this is supposed to be fun.
Reveille1984
Registered User
- Dec 3, 2014
- 973
- 616
For me it's more the long term ramifications of being a shit team for years and years that I hate.
Our current core know nothing except losing, which has to be mentally draining especially when we don't seem to have a lot of vocal leaders right now and are a really young team. This will be the sixth season in a row (most likely) where we finish 23rd or below in OA standings. This sort of thing starts to permeate around a franchise and becomes self-fulfilling, even for the most competitive athletes in the world. You get used to losing and it becomes the expectation in the back of your mind every time you hit the ice.
Of course it's brutal to be a fan during these stretches, but imagine living this as an NHL player every day during the season for years and years. No matter how much money you make, it sucks.
Our current core know nothing except losing, which has to be mentally draining especially when we don't seem to have a lot of vocal leaders right now and are a really young team. This will be the sixth season in a row (most likely) where we finish 23rd or below in OA standings. This sort of thing starts to permeate around a franchise and becomes self-fulfilling, even for the most competitive athletes in the world. You get used to losing and it becomes the expectation in the back of your mind every time you hit the ice.
Of course it's brutal to be a fan during these stretches, but imagine living this as an NHL player every day during the season for years and years. No matter how much money you make, it sucks.
Firequacker
used wall of text! It's not very effective...
- Jun 3, 2022
- 337
- 679
This is about where I'm at. For me last season wasn't miserable because of the team, because either outcome was 'good'. You hope for the team to succeed but if they lose, hey, draft position! And tbh, it was fun when the tanking discourse was kept to the realm of jokes and memes. Misery loves company and all. Seeing large/vocal portions of the fanbase demanding that the team stop trying and hoping for the players to fail, then acting like that made them better fans, was the miserable part. No, telling the team you supposedly support that they should all go screw themselves for trying to win is toxic no matter how you rationalize it.
FiveTacos
Registered User
I've never rooted for losses even last year, but I am far more interested in how our young building blocks play and develop than I am in the ultimate outcome of games since we are clearly still rebuilding.
Everytime I watch a game I hope we play well and win. But at this point I'm realistic about how often that's likely to happen, and so I'm not disappointed when we lose.
Everytime I watch a game I hope we play well and win. But at this point I'm realistic about how often that's likely to happen, and so I'm not disappointed when we lose.
I guess I should amend my above post somewhat - I don't want them to lose and I'm frustrated when they lose this year, but I could handle losses where they play well. If the youngsters are making progress, if they're getting/preventing more scoring chances, if the zone breakouts and forechecks look more effective - I'll take a 4-2 loss where they don't get some bounces or didn't have enough skill to finish on offense.
But last night, outside of a stretch of the second period, whenever Carolina had the puck I had zero hope the Ducks were going to get it back unless the goalie covered it and we won a faceoff. That's terrible hockey to watch, and I'm tired of it. I don't know if it's the players or Cronin or what, but it's bad.
But last night, outside of a stretch of the second period, whenever Carolina had the puck I had zero hope the Ducks were going to get it back unless the goalie covered it and we won a faceoff. That's terrible hockey to watch, and I'm tired of it. I don't know if it's the players or Cronin or what, but it's bad.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
2021-22 ===
When Verbeek was hired during all-star break, the Ducks were 3rd in the Pacific and Manson was put on IR (making this post somewhat relevant to this thread). Verbeek sat on his hands and did nothing to help the Ducks' blueline as we were forced to rely on three rookies on the ice in Drysdale, Benoit, and Mahura. We were falling out of the race and the TDL happened. First event of intentional tanking by the front office.
2022-23 ===
The 2022-23 off-season acquisitions, especially on the blue line, was abysmal and a bat signal of intentional tanking, which included keeping Eakins. We dodged a bullet when Klingberg rejected our multi-year offer, but we still signed him and a bunch of 3rd pairing d-men or worse.
2023-24 ===
This year, the Front Office added far more talent across the board and a new head coach, gunning for improvement. With early injury to Drysdale and load mgmt to Carlsson, the team was able to strive forward, which included a 6-game winning streak. Yet, Terry and Z's offense couldn't be tapped into by new HC Cronin.
I just want to point out that we've been sucking for quite awhile and are only 1 point better than last year's intentional tank squad. This year's squad has been on a downward trend for a while.
Conflate that with Verbeek touting improvement this year with one-goal games stat. The Ducks have been involved in 18 one-goal result games with a record of 7-10-1 (15 points) in 41 games. Last year's squad after 41 games were in 17 one-goal result games with a record of 10-3-4 (24 points) in 41 games. Cronin cannot tap into our ES scoring, be a more disciplined club (earning one extra penalty per game than last year's squad), and the lack execution of our forwards to backcheck as well as not lose their man in the defensive zone.
We're not unintentionally tanking due to injuries now. The team has been losing for quite some time. While injuries hurt our chances of winning, I think it's more due to coaching than injuries this season.
When Verbeek was hired during all-star break, the Ducks were 3rd in the Pacific and Manson was put on IR (making this post somewhat relevant to this thread). Verbeek sat on his hands and did nothing to help the Ducks' blueline as we were forced to rely on three rookies on the ice in Drysdale, Benoit, and Mahura. We were falling out of the race and the TDL happened. First event of intentional tanking by the front office.
2022-23 ===
The 2022-23 off-season acquisitions, especially on the blue line, was abysmal and a bat signal of intentional tanking, which included keeping Eakins. We dodged a bullet when Klingberg rejected our multi-year offer, but we still signed him and a bunch of 3rd pairing d-men or worse.
2023-24 ===
This year, the Front Office added far more talent across the board and a new head coach, gunning for improvement. With early injury to Drysdale and load mgmt to Carlsson, the team was able to strive forward, which included a 6-game winning streak. Yet, Terry and Z's offense couldn't be tapped into by new HC Cronin.
| Ducks | 2022-23 | Eakins | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Game set | Games | W | L | OTL | Pts | Pts % |
| Total | 41 | 12 | 25 | 4 | 28 | 0.341 |
| 1 to 25 | 25 | 6 | 16 | 3 | 15 | 0.300 |
| 26 to 41 | 16 | 6 | 9 | 1 | 13 | 0.406 |
| Ducks | 2023-24 | Cronin | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Game set | Games | W | L | OTL | Pts | Pts % |
| Total | 41 | 14 | 26 | 1 | 29 | 0.354 |
| 1 to 25 | 25 | 10 | 15 | 0 | 20 | 0.400 |
| 26 to 41 | 16 | 4 | 11 | 1 | 9 | 0.281 |
I just want to point out that we've been sucking for quite awhile and are only 1 point better than last year's intentional tank squad. This year's squad has been on a downward trend for a while.
Conflate that with Verbeek touting improvement this year with one-goal games stat. The Ducks have been involved in 18 one-goal result games with a record of 7-10-1 (15 points) in 41 games. Last year's squad after 41 games were in 17 one-goal result games with a record of 10-3-4 (24 points) in 41 games. Cronin cannot tap into our ES scoring, be a more disciplined club (earning one extra penalty per game than last year's squad), and the lack execution of our forwards to backcheck as well as not lose their man in the defensive zone.
We're not unintentionally tanking due to injuries now. The team has been losing for quite some time. While injuries hurt our chances of winning, I think it's more due to coaching than injuries this season.
This bit feels like a presidential speech. Are you gearing up for a run in 2024?
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Terry Yake
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2013
- 28,277
- 16,987
tanking last season was the right move. they could not have afforded to miss out on bedard/carlsson/fantilli
aside from celebrini, there's no one worth tanking for this year. and we all know this franchise will never get a #1 pick. they're going to lose a lot either way just because of all the injuries, but no way i'll be rooting for losses again this year
aside from celebrini, there's no one worth tanking for this year. and we all know this franchise will never get a #1 pick. they're going to lose a lot either way just because of all the injuries, but no way i'll be rooting for losses again this year
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agreed. this year has been so much more disappointing than last because they did have potential. the injuries are just so frustrating. last year's team had no potential.
I like Mac a lot as a 2c, Carlsson is clearly a tier above talentwise
Deuce22
Registered User
Tanking is a business decision by team management. Delayed gratification is better than continuous mediocrity. What it shouldn't be is celebrated or rooted for by fans. It's not getting what you wanted (a winning team), then acting like you didn't want that in the first place by cheering losing.
Tanking really doesn't get much fan support outside of draft years with players like Bedard, unless you are a franchise devoid of young talent.
- Sep 21, 2018
- 3,872
- 6,138
This is pretty much where I'm at. What compounds the anguish is games like last night where they come back and tie it to get your hopes up despite all the adversity, only then to piss it all away soon after.
The amount one goal games gives me hope they're building toward something, but it's a real kick in the nuts the way they've squandered those opportunities into losses. I suppose it's better that they're not doing it the same way every time. It gives you the sense that they're learning, but goddamn if it isn't frustrating as hell.
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IMO a team that is intentionally trying to tank doesn't overpay for Killorn and Gudas.
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