I'm not sure why Anders Lee or JGP would waive their NTC's for the Sharks though. Lee's is full until the new league season begins and JGP has a 16 team no-trade list that the Sharks are probably on. If they're willing to take back Burroughs or Rutta or Benning as part of it then I'd do it but I don't know if they're that desperate to move cap. They wouldn't have a pick until #54 in this draft. They could probably move each guy separately with one of their 2nds to accomplish the same thing but maintain the ability to get a decent draft pick out of the year.
Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion
- Thread starter WTFetus
- Start date
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I think trying to use a theme of beggars can't be choosers is letting the team off the hook because they can do significantly better than guys like Zadina and Kunin on their 3rd lines next year.
Oh oops, good call lolI’m right there with you, DG93. That was one of my trade ideas from a few weeks back (prior to the NYI-CHI pick swap).
If I was Grier I’d throw that idea out to Lou Lou. Worst case he says no and you end up with a horse’s head in your bed.
With your projected lines you forgot JGP. I’m also hoping that Graf starts with Cuda to keep rounding out his game and frame. I’m also tempted to leave out Logan until we know for sure he’s good to go. I’d like Grier to proceed like he isn’t available.
Maybe something like this?
Eklund-Granlund-Zetterlund
Lee-Celebrini-FA signing/Trade
Zadina-JGP-W. Smith
Kostin-Sturm-Kunin
LadyStanley
Registered User
Check out this Podcast: Weaponizing Offseason Cap Space 2024 Edition https://player.fm/1BhKxXg
Locked on Sharks with some suggest cap dump acquisitions
Locked on Sharks with some suggest cap dump acquisitions
OrrNumber4
Registered User
- Jul 25, 2002
- 17,222
- 6,809
Per Sheng Peng, looks like Smith is signing with the Sharks!
The Vancouver/Mikhayev deal makes no sense to me. What are the Sharks getting here? No high picks, maybe a B prospect to take on $9.5M in cap over two years and a 1 time 20 goals scorer who has cracked 60+ games once in five seasons. Seems like a lot of cap for a low probability chance there’s a market for him. Easy pass.
The Goodrow ship has probably sailed. Goodrow seems to be doing exactly what they brought him in to do, which is make a difference in the playoffs. I think the Rangers find other ways of making space, or filling out their roster, for next season and kick the can down the road a year.
Atkinson is interesting. I’d want the Panthers 1st in return, as Philly’s compensatory 2nd (51OA) seems insufficient, and I can’t imagine Columbus is going to elect to give Philly the 36OA instead of deferring to their 2nd in the 2025 draft.
Doing something with the Islanders continues to look interesting. Crazy idea, what if the Sharks traded for JGP and Palmeri and then immediately bought them out? I think the Islanders would be able to re-sign them, at say 1/3 their current cap-hits
for the same term as their current contacts (2 years JGP, 1 year Palmeri).Islanders get to keep their players, but the Sharks are effectively paying 2/3 of their salary. Players get their money, don’t have to move, and Lou gets ~$6.5M in additional cap space. Maybe that’s worth the 20th overall? The only meaningful costs for the Sharks are the 4th year of the JGP buyout at $1.666M and not being able to buyout Vlasic until next year; which seems manageable.
Is that doable? Does Palmeri make it through waivers? Does Bettman or the NHLPA cry foul?
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spintops
Registered User
- Sep 13, 2013
- 1,797
- 1,240
Zetterlund-Granlund- Kunin (Because it's going to happen)
Eklund-Celebrini- Vet FA/Cap dump (Lee mentioned a lot here)
Musty-Smith-Couture
Graf-Strum-Rotate the kids
That would be a pretty exciting forward group that I think fans would tune in to watch. We would still be terrible because we use 6 bottom pairing defensemen but it's a step in the right direction.
Eklund-Celebrini- Vet FA/Cap dump (Lee mentioned a lot here)
Musty-Smith-Couture
Graf-Strum-Rotate the kids
That would be a pretty exciting forward group that I think fans would tune in to watch. We would still be terrible because we use 6 bottom pairing defensemen but it's a step in the right direction.
matt trick
Registered User
- Jun 12, 2007
- 10,411
- 2,779
Was curious about all-time game rankings, turns out Vlasic is 72nd with 1296. Only nine other players have play more games with a single team. Brown, Sedin, Sedin, Kopitar, Mikita, Ovy, Yzerman, Delvecchio, and Lidstrom. He could pass three of those guys, maybe four (Mikita) if he played 101 more games only with San Jose.
Also, he is number two all-time (20 back of Giordano) with 2144 in blocks. If both Giordano and Vlasic have the same blocks as last year (108 to 86), Vlasic would take the all-time lead. If Giordano retires (he's 40), Vlaisc only needs 20. Not sure if Vlasic would be presented with the silver shin pads like Kris Russel was, but honestly, that'd be pretty cool, and representative of his commitment to the game. It's a weird record in that the stat hasn't been kept for that long.
Our good friend Joe Pavelski is #1 all-time amongst forwards (92 overall). Of course he is! Braun, Burns, Stuart, Martin, Boyle, Hannah, Carle, Dillon, Polak, and Gorges are also in the top 100. Perhaps we were cooking the books!
Also, he is number two all-time (20 back of Giordano) with 2144 in blocks. If both Giordano and Vlasic have the same blocks as last year (108 to 86), Vlasic would take the all-time lead. If Giordano retires (he's 40), Vlaisc only needs 20. Not sure if Vlasic would be presented with the silver shin pads like Kris Russel was, but honestly, that'd be pretty cool, and representative of his commitment to the game. It's a weird record in that the stat hasn't been kept for that long.
Our good friend Joe Pavelski is #1 all-time amongst forwards (92 overall). Of course he is! Braun, Burns, Stuart, Martin, Boyle, Hannah, Carle, Dillon, Polak, and Gorges are also in the top 100. Perhaps we were cooking the books!
weastern bias
worst team in the league
Reposting from the Smith thread, maybe a more appropriate place for it:
Okay, got to rosterbaiting on CapFriendly, the additions probably aren't realistic given how hard we'd need to overpay on dollars AND overpromise on term to get guys to come here, but I basically raided the Hurricanes and still managed to leave $6.476M in capspace while committing minimal term, and a team like this might actually approach being competitive on a nightly basis (probably sill a bit short):
Signed:
Brett Pesce $8M/4Y
Brady Skjei $7M/2Y
Teuvo Teravainen $7.5M/3Y
Teddy Blueger $2.5M/2Y
RFAs Re-signed:
Bordeleau $1M/1Y
Kunin $2.5M/2Y
Emberson $1.5M/2Y
Eklund-Granlund-Zetterlund
Teravainen-Celebrini-Smith
Bordeleau-Sturm-Kunin
Kostin-Blueger-Smith
Graf
Skjei-Pesce
Ferraro-Emberson
Mukhamadullin-Rutta
Benning
Vlasic
Blackwood
Vanecek
Not a world beater, but a huge leap from last year
Okay, got to rosterbaiting on CapFriendly, the additions probably aren't realistic given how hard we'd need to overpay on dollars AND overpromise on term to get guys to come here, but I basically raided the Hurricanes and still managed to leave $6.476M in capspace while committing minimal term, and a team like this might actually approach being competitive on a nightly basis (probably sill a bit short):
Signed:
Brett Pesce $8M/4Y
Brady Skjei $7M/2Y
Teuvo Teravainen $7.5M/3Y
Teddy Blueger $2.5M/2Y
RFAs Re-signed:
Bordeleau $1M/1Y
Kunin $2.5M/2Y
Emberson $1.5M/2Y
Eklund-Granlund-Zetterlund
Teravainen-Celebrini-Smith
Bordeleau-Sturm-Kunin
Kostin-Blueger-Smith
Graf
Skjei-Pesce
Ferraro-Emberson
Mukhamadullin-Rutta
Benning
Vlasic
Blackwood
Vanecek
Not a world beater, but a huge leap from last year
Patty Ice
Mighty Luca
There's a couple of Nashville guys I would target, Alexandre Carrier or Dante Fabbro.
Carrier is probably looking at a 4 year, 4m per deal and the Sharks being the Sharks may need to toss a 5x5 his way.
If Grier isn't willing to commit to that, I wonder if the Preds would go for a Bordeleau (his pop is the skill dev coach and a former Pred himself) and Weisblatt (found a new lease on their AHL team) for Fabbro, who just signed a 1 year, 2.5m.
Obviously not big time guys but very useful guys to help compete.
Carrier is probably looking at a 4 year, 4m per deal and the Sharks being the Sharks may need to toss a 5x5 his way.
If Grier isn't willing to commit to that, I wonder if the Preds would go for a Bordeleau (his pop is the skill dev coach and a former Pred himself) and Weisblatt (found a new lease on their AHL team) for Fabbro, who just signed a 1 year, 2.5m.
Obviously not big time guys but very useful guys to help compete.
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
Messed around on CapFriendly to kinda build the skeleton of what we have before looking at outside additions and I came up with this:
Re-sign Kunin $3x3 (I know I know, I’m just being realistic)
Re-sign Thrun and Emberson $1.5x2 each
Assume Couture and Benning are fully healthy for now
Waive Burroughs (don’t mind him in the system as a potential injury call up if he clears)
Vlasic as the 8th D
Assuming Benning is healthy then I’d try to move Rutta for future considerations, but no problem keeping him in the press box if that’s not possible
Eklund-Granlund-Zetterlund
XXX-Celebrini-XXX
Couture-W.Smith-Kostin
XXX-Sturm-Kunin
G.Smith
XXX-XXX
Mukhamadullin-Benning
Ferraro-Emberson
Thrun
Blackwood
Vanecek
So the way I see it is we need two top-6 forwards, one gritty bottom-6 guy who is better than the likes of Bailey/G.Smith and can combine with Sturm and Kunin to form an actually really good 4th line, and two legit top-4 defensemen.
Dakota Joshua is obviously the best UFA option up front. Just turned 28, doesn’t have a ton of miles on the body so he should age pretty gracefully, big, physical, can kill penalties, etc. I would make him an offer he can’t refuse if I’m Grier. $4.5x4?
For the other top-6 guy, we should definitely look around the league for teams in cap crunches to take advantage of. As mentioned, Anders Lee would be a good option if he’s willing to waive to come here. JG Pageau would also be a solid option from the Isles, and we should get a decent pick to take either of them. If Couture can’t go, maybe both?
For the 4th line spot, I’d also be looking at guys who are way overpaid but would be great fourth liners who could slide up the lineup in a pinch. Tanner Jeanot would be a really interesting pickup, just one more year at $2.7M and would provide some value in our bottom-6. Ilya Mikheyev could be a worthwhile grab from Vancouver if they give us a good enough pick to take him.
I’d still give Musty/Bordeleau/Gushchin/Graf every opportunity to earn a roster spot, but absolutely no leaving a spot open for one of them to get by default (being the least bad option).
For D, it really comes down to who is down to sign here. We could throw $12M at Skjei and Roy if we wanted, but who knows if they’d be interested in coming here at all even for big money. My list of UFA defensemen I have some level of interest in at a reasonable price goes as follows (no order): Skjei, Chatfield, DeMelo, Roy, Kylington, Carrier, Dillon, Montour, Walker. No deals more than four years, I don’t want to recreate the Damon Severson contract. I wouldn’t mind tossing some non-premium assets at Nashville for Fabbro. Something like Bordeleau for Barron is worth considering as well.
Per CapFriendly, we have about $32M to fill those five roster spots, and that’s with Vlasic/Couture/Rutta taking up $18M of cap. If Couture and/or Benning can’t go, then that’s another spot to fill. We have the money to make things work, it’s just down to the pro scouts to identify the right people and Grier to convince them to sign/waive.
Re-sign Kunin $3x3 (I know I know, I’m just being realistic)
Re-sign Thrun and Emberson $1.5x2 each
Assume Couture and Benning are fully healthy for now
Waive Burroughs (don’t mind him in the system as a potential injury call up if he clears)
Vlasic as the 8th D
Assuming Benning is healthy then I’d try to move Rutta for future considerations, but no problem keeping him in the press box if that’s not possible
Eklund-Granlund-Zetterlund
XXX-Celebrini-XXX
Couture-W.Smith-Kostin
XXX-Sturm-Kunin
G.Smith
XXX-XXX
Mukhamadullin-Benning
Ferraro-Emberson
Thrun
Blackwood
Vanecek
So the way I see it is we need two top-6 forwards, one gritty bottom-6 guy who is better than the likes of Bailey/G.Smith and can combine with Sturm and Kunin to form an actually really good 4th line, and two legit top-4 defensemen.
Dakota Joshua is obviously the best UFA option up front. Just turned 28, doesn’t have a ton of miles on the body so he should age pretty gracefully, big, physical, can kill penalties, etc. I would make him an offer he can’t refuse if I’m Grier. $4.5x4?
For the other top-6 guy, we should definitely look around the league for teams in cap crunches to take advantage of. As mentioned, Anders Lee would be a good option if he’s willing to waive to come here. JG Pageau would also be a solid option from the Isles, and we should get a decent pick to take either of them. If Couture can’t go, maybe both?
For the 4th line spot, I’d also be looking at guys who are way overpaid but would be great fourth liners who could slide up the lineup in a pinch. Tanner Jeanot would be a really interesting pickup, just one more year at $2.7M and would provide some value in our bottom-6. Ilya Mikheyev could be a worthwhile grab from Vancouver if they give us a good enough pick to take him.
I’d still give Musty/Bordeleau/Gushchin/Graf every opportunity to earn a roster spot, but absolutely no leaving a spot open for one of them to get by default (being the least bad option).
For D, it really comes down to who is down to sign here. We could throw $12M at Skjei and Roy if we wanted, but who knows if they’d be interested in coming here at all even for big money. My list of UFA defensemen I have some level of interest in at a reasonable price goes as follows (no order): Skjei, Chatfield, DeMelo, Roy, Kylington, Carrier, Dillon, Montour, Walker. No deals more than four years, I don’t want to recreate the Damon Severson contract. I wouldn’t mind tossing some non-premium assets at Nashville for Fabbro. Something like Bordeleau for Barron is worth considering as well.
Per CapFriendly, we have about $32M to fill those five roster spots, and that’s with Vlasic/Couture/Rutta taking up $18M of cap. If Couture and/or Benning can’t go, then that’s another spot to fill. We have the money to make things work, it’s just down to the pro scouts to identify the right people and Grier to convince them to sign/waive.
Are you assuming Couture is donezo? If you put Couture at 3C and Sturm at 4C, that lineup gets a lot better as Sturm is a 4C. The non-Will Smith (hehe) is pressbox material, so I'd sub in Graf for him. Kostin-Couture-Graf as the 3rd line, Blueger-Sturm-Kunin as the 4th. I like the adds on defense too, and presumably you sent Burroughs and Thrun to the AHL?
weastern bias
worst team in the league
I'm not necessarily assuming he's done playing all together, but I don't think it's reasonable to assume he'll be available with regularity at this point, he missed the first half of the season and played 6 total games after they tried hinting at him being ready for opening night last year
I think you plan for life without him and if he is available you take it as an added boost to the roster, our plans can't be based on the assumption that he will be a core part of the team
And yes, I send Thrun down and fire Burroughs into the sun
Makes sense, thanks. Even if Couture is able to give them 3rd line minutes, I'd take it. Something like Kostin/Graf-Couture-Smith in sheltered minutes. Then you keep the Lund line together vs top competition and get a couple wingers for Celebrini in FA/trade. A 4th line of Kostin/veteran FA like Blueger-Sturm-Kunin would be fine too. And of course adding a couple top-4 defensemen with a bottom-4 consisting of some combination of Ferraro, Emberson, Mukh, Thrun, Benning, and Rutta. Send Burroughs to the AHL, and buy out Vlasic.
This is such a delicate balance. If you acquire any top 6 level players or a Dakota Joshua you are essentially blocking them from earning that roster spot from both a financial and performance based stance.
Personally, I don't see the point in acquiring any mid-level to high end forwards for the Sharks. The defensive pool at every level of the organization is awful, save for Mukhamadullin, and maybe Cagnoni if you don't mind being able to see over him. In my opinion, dressing a D group that can keep the Sharks in games and get the puck to their young guys up front is more important that insulating the young guys with a Stamkos or whoever. The defensive prospect pool needs to improve significantly in this draft, the next draft, and through trades if the team is ever going to be well rounded enough to start doing damage in the playoffs.
It's super exciting that Smith intends to sign and they have the opportunity to draft Celebrini, but they can't skip steps just to get the playoffs sooner. Short term gain, long term loss isn't going to work without first addressing the black hole on defense.
I don't think adding a couple top-9 wingers in FA/trade represents any actual realistic push towards the playoffs as much as insulating our top prospects as they develop. It also doesn't preclude them from adding a couple defensemen.
It's a domino effect too where adding a few top-9 wingers to play with Celebrini not only helps him but allows the Lund line to stay together and face top lines night in and night out. The finally domino is Smith getting 3rd line minutes vs soft competition (hopefully with Couture on his wing as well as one of the other young guys like Graf, Kostin, Gushchin, or Bordeleau).
- Oct 12, 2020
- 2,058
- 3,494
Adam Boqvist could be an interesting buy low candidate.
I think he didn't get that much ice time in Columbus and should be relatively cheap to get.
Only risk is that you get another Addison.
I think he didn't get that much ice time in Columbus and should be relatively cheap to get.
Only risk is that you get another Addison.
weastern bias
worst team in the league
I wouldn't bother, we're no where near a cap crunch right now and he only has 2 years left on his contract, a buyout extends the burden beyond Celebrini and Smith's ELCs where I'd like to maintain maximum flexibility
I agreed with this until we won the lottery, we need a legit running mate for Celebrini, we owe it to the future of this team to put him in the best possible position to succeed right away
I don't like the idea of Stamkos because you just know he'll fall off a cliff the second you sign him and he's not on that awesome Tampa team, which is why I liked the idea of Teravainen, he's 4 years younger than Stamkos, has a lot of playoff experience and is a proven complimentary vet who can help make a young center's life a lot easier, especially if they can manage to get sheltered matchups
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
When has a roster ever been perfectly filled out by prospects? It’s fun to prognosticate a lineup full of SJ draftees, but it’s crazy unrealistic. Besides, I purposely targeted guys who have the skill set to play down the lineup in two-three years if one of the highlighted kids actually earns a top-6 lineup spot.
I don’t care if Bordeleau or Gushchin is capable of playing on an NHL roster like the Sharks last season. If they can’t earn a spot on a roster that’s at least trying to be competitive (even if it’s still really bad), then they don’t deserve to be there. Kostin’s spot could easily be earned by a kid if they really actually deserve it. There is a wide chasm between “literally the worst roster of the past 20 NHL seasons” and “trying to make the playoffs”. The roster I have designed is still easily bottom-3 in the league. To me, your post reads like you don’t see any value to improving the roster except with prospects. Perhaps I’m misunderstanding you, but that’s how it comes off.
Stuffing the Sharks lineup full of children, no matter how talented they are, is not a good idea. There must be veterans there. Even just inserting Celebrini and Smith into last year’s lineup skews it uncomfortably young.
WSS11
Registered User
- Oct 7, 2009
- 6,228
- 5,563
It's purely due to roster spot crunch (and I also think Vlasic is toxic and checked out, not a good combo for young guys). If you're confident that one of Thrun/Mukh is AHL bound, that roster spot crunch goes away.
Zetterlund-Granlund-Eklund
WSS11
Registered User
- Oct 7, 2009
- 6,228
- 5,563
lol. My head went to Cam Lund and I was like what the hell am I missing
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Yeah this team doesn't compete until we have a real blue line but I don't think we can just fix the blue line this season. There are no #1 guys available it seems and to compensate for that, you'd need a full compliment of six guys playing at or near a top four caliber. How many of our guys really fit into that dynamic? Maybe Ferraro? Maybe Mukhamadullin? Maybe Thrun? That still leaves a lot of holes and seemingly less viable options for us to snag. If Grier can pull it off, I'd say go for it and anything else that helps develop guys like Celebrini and Smith in the way that helps them be what they need to be in order to get us where we want to go.
hohosaregood
Banned
- Sep 1, 2011
- 33,639
- 14,535
If i could unilaterally sign a couple dudes. It'd be Dillon and Demelo to be a 25min minute munching pairing. And Amadio and Carrier to bring in two excellent puck possession wingers.
