Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[TheBeard]

Adding a single middle-pairing defenseman isn’t going to put us on “the treadmill”, holy crap. It would hardly have any impact on the standings at all, frankly. But it would make an impact on the ice so the team doesn’t feel like every shift is trying not to drown. It must be demoralizing to play for this team right now.

I swear, some people seem to think the struggles on the ice have no effects on the players mental state.

 

[Hodge]

I swear, some people seem to think the struggles on the ice have no effects on the players mental state.

No I just don't care about any of their mental states apart from Eklund who seems fine. Again, that changes if we bring in Celebrini and Smith, but otherwise we should ride out another season of being as bad as possible.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

No I just don't care about any of their mental states apart from Eklund who seems fine. Again, that changes if we bring in Celebrini and Smith, but otherwise we should ride out another season of being as bad as possible.

We will be bringing in young players and we have already started. Thrun, Eklund and Bordeleau are already on the team. Plus I don’t think it’s easy to just flick a switch and change the tenor of the locker room from years of perpetual losing. It’s time to start making some steps in the right direction. Grier agrees.

 

[STL Shark]

Adding a single middle-pairing defenseman isn’t going to put us on “the treadmill”, holy crap. It would hardly have any impact on the standings at all, frankly. But it would make an impact on the ice so the team doesn’t feel like every shift is trying not to drown. It must be demoralizing to play for this team right now.

This. Even if you think a middle pairing type D-Man is going to make a 10 point difference (a 5.0 WAR player would be insane for a middle pairing defenseman), that still is only the difference between 32nd and 31st this year and still likely in last place even in 2022-23.

I don't see a way that we're adding any combination that makes us 20 points better next year, and even if we did that would still be good/bad enough to be in the top 5 lottery odds because we're truly that bad this year.

 

[Barrie22]

This. Even if you think a middle pairing type D-Man is going to make a 10 point difference (a 5.0 WAR player would be insane for a middle pairing defenseman), that still is only the difference between 32nd and 31st this year and still likely in last place even in 2022-23.

I don't see a way that we're adding any combination that makes us 20 points better next year, and even if we did that would still be good/bad enough to be in the top 5 lottery odds because we're truly that bad this year.

To get to 22nd in the league (still a lottery team), it would take an extra 35 points from this seasons standings. To be tied with the final wild card spot in the west it would be 48 points.

This team really is that bad, so bad that even adding McDavid would probably not be enough to get them into a playoff fight.

 

[Hodge]

Speaking of middle pairing defensemen, I just realized Matt Grzelcyk is a pending UFA who played for David Quinn at BU...

 

[DG93]

Speaking of middle pairing defensemen, I just realized Matt Grzelcyk is a pending UFA who played for David Quinn at BU...

Yeah, but which one of Ferraro, Thrun, or Mukh is he going to replace? I think he'd be a solid add if Ferraro got traded (not happening as the org sees him the same way as Kunin) or Mukh isn't ready (it's time to give him minutes)

 

[Gecklund]

My hope for the offseason at this moment is Pesce, Wennberg, and bringing Lorentz back. That should make us harder to play against which would be great as we bring along more of these young guys. We saw what happened with Eklund when shit hit the fan.

 

[hohosaregood]

I'd look at making an offer to Dillon. I think it'd be a realistic add too. He's an aging physical defenseman which is not the profile for a big late career contract. Overpay him a bit like $5m x 3 a la Gudas and we get a big upgrade on the Burroughs role

and if Demelo gets to FA somehow, like $5.5m x 5.

 

[Hodge]

Yeah, but which one of Ferraro, Thrun, or Mukh is he going to replace? I think he'd be a solid add if Ferraro got traded (not happening as the org sees him the same way as Kunin) or Mukh isn't ready (it's time to give him minutes)

Mukh and Thrun are still waiver exempt next season so probably one of them. If we do think we can land Grzelcyk (looks like he played for Quinn at BU for 3 years) I'm guessing Vlasic would get bought out too.

 

[tiburon12]

The Kunin hate is way over the top. It's not his fault he was asked to play 2C for a significant chunk of the season when he's ideally a 3rd or 4th line RW. 3 millionish for a young winger who can pop in 10-15 goals a year, kills penalties, consistently throws hits and is willing to drop the gloves is perfectly reasonable and not at all "a huge reason the Sharks are as bad as they are." Get real.

Kunin hate is this year's Benning hate, which was also misattributed.

 

[Jargon]

Mukh and Thrun are still waiver exempt next season so probably one of them. If we do think we can land Grzelcyk (looks like he played for Quinn at BU for 3 years) I'm guessing Vlasic would get bought out too.

I think there was a rumor that the Sharks wanted to trade for him at one point.

 

[STL Shark]

I think there was a rumor that the Sharks wanted to trade for him at one point.

Fabbro was the former BU defenseman that had trade rumors surrounding him last year. Don't recall seeing the same on Grzelyck. The other thing on Grzyleck is he's 30, undersized, and just not very good. He doesn't PP nor does he PK much (last amongst D-Men on Boston in PK TOI per game).

I don't see what he offers that would be worth shuffling guys around for in order to bring in. Maybe if he was right-handed, but as an undersized left handed D that doesn't do special teams much, there are far better ways to spend money/cap space.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Kunin hate is this year's Benning hate, which was also misattributed.

This is just a cop out. It's not hate to point out that Kunin and Benning are not good hockey players for various reasons. At least in Benning's case, he's cheap and can be buried without any issue. In Kunin's case, we're talking about paying him 3 mil to come back potentially over multiple years. I think that's too much for a guy who isn't good at hockey beyond the physical aspect and who we'd ideally want to keep on the 4th line if he were to stay. I'd rather keep Carpenter who is decent at hockey w/o the physical aspect and would be much cheaper. Though my preference is to get paid to take someone's cap dump and stick them on the 4th line to see if they can be salvaged to any degree.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Who cares if we overpay Kunin for a few years. We have tons of cap space and are going to finish near the very bottom anyway.

 

[STL Shark]

This is just a cop out. It's not hate to point out that Kunin and Benning are not good hockey players for various reasons. At least in Benning's case, he's cheap and can be buried without any issue. In Kunin's case, we're talking about paying him 3 mil to come back potentially over multiple years. I think that's too much for a guy who isn't good at hockey beyond the physical aspect and who we'd ideally want to keep on the 4th line if he were to stay. I'd rather keep Carpenter who is decent at hockey w/o the physical aspect and would be much cheaper. Though my preference is to get paid to take someone's cap dump and stick them on the 4th line to see if they can be salvaged to any degree.

That is also just not the opinion of professional scouts and people paid to cover the sport. Kunin might be overpaid by $500k on his next deal, but that is also literally 1/2 of 1 percent of the salary cap for 2024-25 and we have $40M in cap space to spend.

He's a solid bottom 6 player (more likely a guy you want as forward 9/10 than 7 in the "bottom 6") that is being asked to do far too much out of necessity/injuries. If properly slotted in, he's a bottom 6 player on a good team and you will have to overpay (even if it is just ever so slightly) to get him to be a bottom 6 player on a historically bad team.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

That is also just not the opinion of professional scouts and people paid to cover the sport. Kunin might be overpaid by $500k on his next deal, but that is also literally 1/2 of 1 percent of the salary cap for 2024-25 and we have $40M in cap space to spend.

He's a solid bottom 6 player (more likely a guy you want as forward 9/10 than 7 in the "bottom 6") that is being asked to do far too much out of necessity/injuries. If properly slotted in, he's a bottom 6 player on a good team and you will have to overpay (even if it is just ever so slightly) to get him to be a bottom 6 player on a historically bad team.

3 mil is a minimum of 1 mil overpay for a player of Kunin's contributions and a very easy to replace sort of role we're talking about here.

 

[tiburon12]

This is just a cop out. It's not hate to point out that Kunin and Benning are not good hockey players for various reasons. At least in Benning's case, he's cheap and can be buried without any issue. In Kunin's case, we're talking about paying him 3 mil to come back potentially over multiple years. I think that's too much for a guy who isn't good at hockey beyond the physical aspect and who we'd ideally want to keep on the 4th line if he were to stay. I'd rather keep Carpenter who is decent at hockey w/o the physical aspect and would be much cheaper. Though my preference is to get paid to take someone's cap dump and stick them on the 4th line to see if they can be salvaged to any degree.

As cliche as it is, it's painfully clear that Kunin provides the type of locker room and on-ice intangibles that the organization values. So even if his on-ice production value is closer to 2M, we are in an organizational position to overpay for quality mentorship and sacrifice on-ice results.

I get what you're saying on paper and in general philosophy, but in the current context I don't think overpaying Kunin 1M or so is anything to spend any brain power thinking about.

 

[pappaf2]

As cliche as it is, it's painfully clear that Kunin provides the type of locker room and on-ice intangibles that the organization values. So even if his on-ice production value is closer to 2M, we are in an organizational position to overpay for quality mentorship and sacrifice on-ice results.

I get what you're saying on paper and in general philosophy, but in the current context I don't think overpaying Kunin 1M or so is anything to spend any brain power thinking about.

I agree with this. If the team overpays his talent by $1mil+ but he has those important locker room and leadership intowesables that help move the team culture in the right direction then I’m all for it, particularly when the sharks have no cap issues to worry about.

 

[one2gamble]

I agree with this. If the team overpays his talent by $1mil+ but he has those important locker room and leadership intowesables that help move the team culture in the right direction then I’m all for it, particularly when the sharks have no cap issues to worry about.

Im over here trying to get overpaid by 10k and the Sharks are just going to throw a million at people for fun lol

 

[Gecklund]

Im over here trying to get overpaid by 10k and the Sharks are just going to throw a million at people for fun lol

More like over here trying to not get underpaid.

 

[Herschel]

3 mil is a minimum of 1 mil overpay for a player of Kunin's contributions and a very easy to replace sort of role we're talking about here.

I am all for overpaying Kunin on a 2 year deal or giving him a slightly longer deal if its at his actual on-ice value, either is fine, it just can't be both.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

As cliche as it is, it's painfully clear that Kunin provides the type of locker room and on-ice intangibles that the organization values. So even if his on-ice production value is closer to 2M, we are in an organizational position to overpay for quality mentorship and sacrifice on-ice results.

I get what you're saying on paper and in general philosophy, but in the current context I don't think overpaying Kunin 1M or so is anything to spend any brain power thinking about.

I agree that they value those things out of Kunin but I think it's better for the team and their future to replace what Kunin is good at in the open market with a better player. They can get quality mentorship and physical play from other options that are either cheaper or provide more tangible benefits for a rebuilding club. Kunin is just too inconsistent and now we have the opportunity to fill gaps on the team with better players and they should take that opportunity rather than commit to a bad hockey player who has physicality in their game and only has shown spurts of leadership qualities on a team full of inexperienced players and fringe veterans. Kunin is the tallest kid in kindergarten in this context and not something any of us or anyone on the team should be satisfied with keeping.

 

[tahoesharksfan]

Who cares if we overpay Kunin for a few years. We have tons of cap space and are going to finish near the very bottom anyway.

I do, I'm tired of having to watch the guy "play"!

 

[Herschel]

I agree that they value those things out of Kunin but I think it's better for the team and their future to replace what Kunin is good at in the open market with a better player. They can get quality mentorship and physical play from other options that are either cheaper or provide more tangible benefits for a rebuilding club. Kunin is just too inconsistent and now we have the opportunity to fill gaps on the team with better players and they should take that opportunity rather than commit to a bad hockey player who has physicality in their game and only has shown spurts of leadership qualities on a team full of inexperienced players and fringe veterans. Kunin is the tallest kid in kindergarten in this context and not something any of us or anyone on the team should be satisfied with keeping.

Why not do both? Sign a Kunin upgrade and keep Kunin. That route garantees that you at worst maintain work ethic, mentorship and physical play Kunin brings.

The reality is that with all the youth that is going to be playing over the next 2-3 seasons the team is going to need multiple mentors and I'd rather see them be on the right side of 30.