Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[TheBeard]

With regards to Benning I could see him being moved even with two years left because he is only making 1.25 a year which is next to nothing and could likely be buried if a team is desperate. I think we move Rutta at the deadline next year if he wants to be moved because it is a situation where Grier and the team want to do right by the player.

I agree on both although Benning I imagine is pretty low down the totem pole in terms of defensemen in demand.

 

[DG93]

We already have Ferraro, Vlasic, Benning, Burroughs, Rutta and Mukhamadullin signed for next season with Emberson and Thrun likely to be re-signed as well. I don't think it makes sense to add even more defensemen to the roster until 2025 unless we're also trading some of these guys.

Yeah, I mostly agree with this. Ferraro isn't being traded as they see him in a big leadership role. Benning and Rutta are vet guys that Quinn likes and will likely be paired up with Thrun and Mukh to babysit the young dudes. Rutta likely goes at the trade deadline opening up minutes for someone from the AHL to come up. Emberson is a solid young player that I bet they end up re-signing as well. Addison is likely gone as he doesn't offer much. Burroughs is a cheap option to put in the press box for most of the year.

If they really want to add another defenseman and are done with Vlasic being checked out, I could see them buying out Vlasic's last 2 years (although cap sheet is certainly not an issue now thankfully) vs burying Burroughs in the minors and using Vlasic as the guy in the press box most nights.

 

[coooldude]

Yeah, I mostly agree with this. Ferraro isn't being traded as they see him in a big leadership role. Benning and Rutta are vet guys that Quinn likes and will likely be paired up with Thrun and Mukh to babysit the young dudes. Rutta likely goes at the trade deadline opening up minutes for someone from the AHL to come up. Emberson is a solid young player that I bet they end up re-signing as well. Addison is likely gone as he doesn't offer much. Burroughs is a cheap option to put in the press box for most of the year.

If they really want to add another defenseman and are done with Vlasic being checked out, I could see them buying out Vlasic's last 2 years (although cap sheet is certainly not an issue now thankfully) vs burying Burroughs in the minors and using Vlasic as the guy in the press box most nights.

There's also the chance that we trade one of the D under contract for a low pick or another prospect for the AHL team, kind of like how we picked up Addison in the first place.

 

[DG93]

There's also the chance that we trade one of the D under contract for a low pick or another prospect for the AHL team, kind of like how we picked up Addison in the first place.

Yeah, my money would be on Rutta for most of the reasons above unless they have already given up on Thrun.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

Why not? This is exactly what I think Grier should do. It’s the only way we are a realistic choice for any high end UFA and we have cap space to burn for the next few seasons. Bringing in 1 or 2 guys to take the hard matchups and shelter the kids is a very good use of that cap space. What we shouldn’t do is overpay on any long term deals.

Because if the current picks fail you do not want to have to go through dumping salary again. You do not add big long term contracts to the Sharks until such time as the core is fairly established and they only need a piece or two.

Right now the Sharks are miles off.

Step 1 - Clear the deck of anchor contracts - This has pretty much been done. Still have Vlasic and Couture. Vlasic has a negative value unless someone needs a salary floor anchor. Couture who knows or not if he's going to be an injury retirement.

Step 2- Acquire picks and propsects - The Sharks have acquired some good prospects, but they still need so many more. Have a few prospects on D but who know sif any of the D guys are long term solutiions at sports 1-6. The Sharks are currently here and are going to need a few more or several seasons until they can move to step 3. It is unknown how long this will take because winnign the lottery and getting Celebrini and/or MCkenna accelerates the time line, but the Sharks are still misisng lots of prospects.

Step 3 - Build core for team moving forward with the intention of competing for the cup.

Step 4 - Make trades and add UFAs to fill in remaining holes.

The Sharks should not bringing in big contracts UFAs. They should want guys who can show something and be flipped for assets.

I know it is frustrating but a complete rebuild takes a really long time and there is no guarantee of success. The alternative is being the Minnesota Wild who have lived on the treadmill for their entire existence and won 1 division title in 24 years.

The treadmill is a place of no real hope.

 

[STL Shark]

I get that and understand it, however with 2 first last year, 2 this year and 2 next, if there's ever a time to consider moving one of them for someone a little more established (not old, someone who's still in their very early 20s) then I'd like to go that route. It especially makes more sense if we do win the draft lotto and end up with Macklin., D-men usually take longer to develop and unless the team wants to keep going to the discount rack for guys like Addison or just spending cheap on bottom pairing D-men like Benning and Burroughs then the best route is to see what's out there that we may not know.


I don't see Benning being moved as I believe he's still got two years left, no? Ruuta I agree, and I think he should be moved at the deadline, but not during the offseason. I also don't know whether or not getting a 6th for Ruuta is more valuable than keeping him for the entire season, especially if the team plans on playing the kids more like Thompson and Shakir or, hell, even a Laroque if they want to see.

Think with Benning's deal the fact that it is so inexpensive means that extra year of term would help increase the return rather than be a reason that he isn't moved. On Rutta, I think it is mostly moot as there are typically only 15-18 games post TDL so I would hope that Muk/Thrun are able to play without him (I also assume that we're adding another RHD this offseason that should be able to help out the youngsters - or else I don't see how this team can expect to take a step forward as they've said publicly).

How we go about utilizing this excess cap space is going to be very interesting as this projects to be the most cap space that we've had compared to the cap since the hard cap became a thing. Will take a number of moves to make a meaningful dent in that space.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

What about Calen Addison? He'll be an RFA after this season.

I'd let him go along with Zadina and Kunin. I wouldn't even bother qualifying any of them unless there's a trade to be made but I doubt something's really there. I expect Kunin to get re-signed because it's Grier's first move and they're trying to pump his value of late. None of them are good enough players consistently enough to depend on.

 

[Hodge]

I'd let him go along with Zadina and Kunin. I wouldn't even bother qualifying any of them unless there's a trade to be made but I doubt something's really there. I expect Kunin to get re-signed because it's Grier's first move and they're trying to pump his value of late. None of them are good enough players consistently enough to depend on.

Zadina and Kunin are useful fourth liners. Addison is rich man's Merkley and shouldn't be in the NHL.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Zadina and Kunin are useful fourth liners. Addison is rich man's Merkley and shouldn't be in the NHL.

Even if they are, why keep them? They can use the space to get more effective players to play with the more inexperienced players that are going to be in the top nine whether that's Graf or Bordeleau or anyone else. The only reason the Sharks got Addison in the first place was because of how awful the puck-moving was from the blue line. Thrun is mitigating that issue and if Muk is going to play on the Sharks next year, he will too. Have Benning and Rutta play with them and nobody will even notice Addison is gone.

 

[STL Shark]

Even if they are, why keep them? They can use the space to get more effective players to play with the more inexperienced players that are going to be in the top nine whether that's Graf or Bordeleau or anyone else. The only reason the Sharks got Addison in the first place was because of how awful the puck-moving was from the blue line. Thrun is mitigating that issue and if Muk is going to play on the Sharks next year, he will too. Have Benning and Rutta play with them and nobody will even notice Addison is gone.

Kunin isn't going anywhere. The love in the room and from the coaching staff about how he works makes him a guy that is going to stick around for a few more years (particularly while we have so much cap space). Kunin will get ~$3.5M on a 2 year deal is my guess to help foster some compete and protect the youngsters coming up the next year or two.

He's 100% too high in the lineup, but that's more out of roster necessity than it is because that's where the staff wants to play him. I envision him playing on a 3rd line with a young center and Bordeleau next year to be the physical presence and offer a little bit of finishing prowess (obviously he's not a guy you ask to create, but his finish isn't awful). In a super ideal world, he's a $1.5M a year 4th liner where you can roll a 4th line of Kostin-Sturm-Kunin and be super big, physical, and fast while also packing some scoring, but we're not there yet with having enough size in the top of the lineup to funnel all of those guys down the lineup.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Kunin isn't going anywhere. The love in the room and from the coaching staff about how he works makes him a guy that is going to stick around for a few more years (particularly while we have so much cap space). Kunin will get ~$3.5M on a 2 year deal is my guess to help foster some compete and protect the youngsters coming up the next year or two.

He's 100% too high in the lineup, but that's more out of roster necessity than it is because that's where the staff wants to play him. I envision him playing on a 3rd line with a young center and Bordeleau next year to be the physical presence and offer a little bit of finishing prowess (obviously he's not a guy you ask to create, but his finish isn't awful). In a super ideal world, he's a $1.5M a year 4th liner where you can roll a 4th line of Kostin-Sturm-Kunin and be super big, physical, and fast while also packing some scoring, but we're not there yet with having enough size in the top of the lineup to funnel all of those guys down the lineup.

I expect Kunin will stay but they're better off letting him go and filling his spot with someone else. Buying into guys like Kunin who teams like to tout as glue guys without the effectiveness to back it up are what holds teams back from competing. The team should have other higher priorities to concern themselves with over keeping someone who is a huge reason why they are as bad as they are and hasn't really made any improvements to his game. He's still the same inconsistent winger he was on his previous teams.

I think next year's team should strive for helping whichever rookies or inexperienced forwards along that need it. Eklund doesn't seem to need it anymore but Bordeleau does. Graf does. If Smith decides to sign with us, he will. If we end up drafting Celebrini, he will. We need to account for all that before we worry about where Kunin may or may not fit into all that. The team needs to keep as much roster flexibility as they can until things like the lottery works itself out.

But if we're wanting someone in the top nine other than Kostin (because he's earning that with his play now) to help protect kids, there will probably be UFA or trade options that fit the bill better than Kunin and Grier shouldn't commit himself further to a bad player until the other options have been exhausted.

 

[Hodge]

I expect Kunin will stay but they're better off letting him go and filling his spot with someone else. Buying into guys like Kunin who teams like to tout as glue guys without the effectiveness to back it up are what holds teams back from competing. The team should have other higher priorities to concern themselves with over keeping someone who is a huge reason why they are as bad as they are and hasn't really made any improvements to his game. He's still the same inconsistent winger he was on his previous teams.

I think next year's team should strive for helping whichever rookies or inexperienced forwards along that need it. Eklund doesn't seem to need it anymore but Bordeleau does. Graf does. If Smith decides to sign with us, he will. If we end up drafting Celebrini, he will. We need to account for all that before we worry about where Kunin may or may not fit into all that. The team needs to keep as much roster flexibility as they can until things like the lottery works itself out.

But if we're wanting someone in the top nine other than Kostin (because he's earning that with his play now) to help protect kids, there will probably be UFA or trade options that fit the bill better than Kunin and Grier shouldn't commit himself further to a bad player until the other options have been exhausted.

The Kunin hate is way over the top. It's not his fault he was asked to play 2C for a significant chunk of the season when he's ideally a 3rd or 4th line RW. 3 millionish for a young winger who can pop in 10-15 goals a year, kills penalties, consistently throws hits and is willing to drop the gloves is perfectly reasonable and not at all "a huge reason the Sharks are as bad as they are." Get real.

 

[Harbessix]

The Kunin hate is way over the top. It's not his fault he was asked to play 2C for a significant chunk of the season when he's ideally a 3rd or 4th line RW. 3 millionish for a young winger who can pop in 10-15 goals a year, kills penalties, consistently throws hits and is willing to drop the gloves is perfectly reasonable and not at all "a huge reason the Sharks are as bad as they are." Get real.

I feel it’s similar to Benning last year. Got a ton of hate yet overall I was pretty impressed with his season.

 

[jarr92]

The Kunin hate is way over the top. It's not his fault he was asked to play 2C for a significant chunk of the season when he's ideally a 3rd or 4th line RW. 3 millionish for a young winger who can pop in 10-15 goals a year, kills penalties, consistently throws hits and is willing to drop the gloves is perfectly reasonable and not at all "a huge reason the Sharks are as bad as they are." Get real.

As a Kunin fan the $3.5M suggested earlier by Stl would be too much in the current league cap, but another deal at $2.75M or less for 2-3 years would be good IMO. He definitely brings an edge that’s missing from most of the roster.

 

[hockeyCEO]

I'd like to see us pick up a physical defensemen something similar Bryan Marchment (RIP), if possible. Simek once had that potential, but injuries ended it. Once we start becoming competitive, the need to protect the younger, smaller, and high skill players will become necessary. Right now Kunin is our Michael Haley.

 

[Cas]

I'd like to see us pick up a physical defensemen something similar Brian Marchment (RIP), if possible. Simek once had that potential, but injuries ended it. Once we start becoming competitive, the need to protect the younger, smaller, and high skill players will become necessary. Right now Kunin is our Michael Haley.

We have Burroughs. Of course he's awful, but we're plenty far from needing to worry about finding a competent physical defenseman to compete with.

 

[coooldude]

I'd like to see us pick up a physical defensemen something similar Brian Marchment (RIP), if possible. Simek once had that potential, but injuries ended it. Once we start becoming competitive, the need to protect the younger, smaller, and high skill players will become necessary. Right now Kunin is our Michael Haley.

I think we tried with Okhotiuk. Unfortunately he just made really bad decisions on the puck, consistently and without much improvement. I'm guessing this kind of profile will be a target of our 2nd round picks.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The Kunin hate is way over the top. It's not his fault he was asked to play 2C for a significant chunk of the season when he's ideally a 3rd or 4th line RW. 3 millionish for a young winger who can pop in 10-15 goals a year, kills penalties, consistently throws hits and is willing to drop the gloves is perfectly reasonable and not at all "a huge reason the Sharks are as bad as they are." Get real.

Nah, you just overrate what he actually brings to the table. If all you get out of someone is 10-15 goals, he needs to actually make an impact with the other stuff that he does but he's not an effective penalty killer and his ability to generate energy or momentum with hits or fights is negligible. It's not his fault he's asked to play higher up in the lineup. It is his fault that he can't succeed there. He can't succeed playing above the 4th line. He can be filler there if your intention is to ice a less than competitive team but don't pretend like it's unreasonable to say that this team would be perfectly fine moving on from Kunin and wouldn't miss him because they wouldn't. You need to get real and stop overrating Kunin.

 

[STL Shark]

As a Kunin fan the $3.5M suggested earlier by Stl would be too much in the current league cap, but another deal at $2.75M or less for 2-3 years would be good IMO. He definitely brings an edge that’s missing from most of the roster.

It's more due to we are going to need to hit the floor and the fact that his QO is going to be $3.3M (110% of prior year's base salary - which is $3M in his case this year).

 

[hohosaregood]

I'd like to see us pick up a physical defensemen something similar Brian Marchment (RIP), if possible. Simek once had that potential, but injuries ended it. Once we start becoming competitive, the need to protect the younger, smaller, and high skill players will become necessary. Right now Kunin is our Michael Haley.

Still got Guryev in the pipeline. But he's either 4 years away or tops out in the AHL.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It's more due to we are going to need to hit the floor and the fact that his QO is going to be $3.3M (110% of prior year's base salary - which is $3M in his case this year).

Kunin's QO is 3 mil.

 

[TheBeard]

It's more due to we are going to need to hit the floor and the fact that his QO is going to be $3.3M (110% of prior year's base salary - which is $3M in his case this year).

Wasn’t he 2.75 per?

I'd like to see us pick up a physical defensemen something similar Brian Marchment (RIP), if possible. Simek once had that potential, but injuries ended it. Once we start becoming competitive, the need to protect the younger, smaller, and high skill players will become necessary. Right now Kunin is our Michael Haley.

Tanev or zadorov

 

[STL Shark]

Wasn’t he 2.75 per?

For AAV, yes. However, his base salary for this year was $3M (with $2.5M in 2022-23). So it would be a deal similar to Timo where the backloaded second year increases the QO (though not nearly as badly backloaded obviously as Timo).

Just looked and realized that since it is the lesser of the 120% AAV or 100% of the final year's base salary. I thought it was 110% of base salary for some reason.

 

[TheBeard]

For AAV, yes. However, his base salary for this year was $3M (with $2.5M in 2022-23). So it would be a deal similar to Timo where the backloaded second year increases the QO (though not nearly as badly backloaded obviously as Timo).

Got it. Thanks. I think he’s back for at least one more year and frankly I don’t hate it.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Because if the current picks fail you do not want to have to go through dumping salary again. You do not add big long term contracts to the Sharks until such time as the core is fairly established and they only need a piece or two.

Right now the Sharks are miles off.

Step 1 - Clear the deck of anchor contracts - This has pretty much been done. Still have Vlasic and Couture. Vlasic has a negative value unless someone needs a salary floor anchor. Couture who knows or not if he's going to be an injury retirement.

Step 2- Acquire picks and propsects - The Sharks have acquired some good prospects, but they still need so many more. Have a few prospects on D but who know sif any of the D guys are long term solutiions at sports 1-6. The Sharks are currently here and are going to need a few more or several seasons until they can move to step 3. It is unknown how long this will take because winnign the lottery and getting Celebrini and/or MCkenna accelerates the time line, but the Sharks are still misisng lots of prospects.

Step 3 - Build core for team moving forward with the intention of competing for the cup.

Step 4 - Make trades and add UFAs to fill in remaining holes.

The Sharks should not bringing in big contracts UFAs. They should want guys who can show something and be flipped for assets.

I know it is frustrating but a complete rebuild takes a really long time and there is no guarantee of success. The alternative is being the Minnesota Wild who have lived on the treadmill for their entire existence and won 1 division title in 24 years.

The treadmill is a place of no real hope.

Adding a single middle-pairing defenseman isn’t going to put us on “the treadmill”, holy crap. It would hardly have any impact on the standings at all, frankly. But it would make an impact on the ice so the team doesn’t feel like every shift is trying not to drown. It must be demoralizing to play for this team right now.