Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Sharkz4Fun]

If they get Celebrini I'd be willing to up my offer and offer Stamkos 3x18.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

We already have Ferraro, Vlasic, Benning, Burroughs, Rutta and Mukhamadullin signed for next season with Emberson and Thrun likely to be re-signed as well. I don't think it makes sense to add even more defensemen to the roster until 2025 unless we're also trading some of these guys.

I'm hoping they find a trade for Burroughs or Rutta at the least. They're going to be stuck with Benning and they need to get Emberson in the lineup as well. Now that they have Thompson, they don't need both Burroughs and Rutta. Hopefully, they can be used as a way to acquire some forwards with cap to reach the floor. Not sure who makes real sense there but someone will be looking to dump some forwards that we can dump one of those guys as part of the process.

 

[Juxtaposer]

We already have Ferraro, Vlasic, Benning, Burroughs, Rutta and Mukhamadullin signed for next season with Emberson and Thrun likely to be re-signed as well. I don't think it makes sense to add even more defensemen to the roster until 2025 unless we're also trading some of these guys.

So trade Ferraro (2nd rounder or something) and Burroughs (late rounder or future considerations). Sit Vlasic.

We absolutely cannot do another season with no top-4 defensemen. Mukhamadullin would be buried, we can’t let that happen.

 

[hohosaregood]

Burroughs can be buried in the AHL. Benning might not have the speed for the NHL anymore. Rutta and Vlasic will probably be cycling scratches. There's absolutely room for legit NHL d-men.

 

[Hodge]

So trade Ferraro (2nd rounder or something) and Burroughs (late rounder or future considerations). Sit Vlasic.

We absolutely cannot do another season with no top-4 defensemen. Mukhamadullin would be buried, we can’t let that happen.

If there was an acceptable trade on the table for Ferraro he would probably be gone by now.

We have a surplus of vets who can play top 4 minutes. Can they perform well in that role? Of course not. But there's no reason to play Mukhamadullin or Thrun higher than 3rd pair unless they earn it.

 

[STL Shark]

Definitely, any major FA move would likely involve a trade of one of these players. This is also why, if we don't win Celebrini, we might expect that Grier lets it ride and we have one more year of pretty bad performance.

Mukh looked good in the call-up, but I frankly wouldn't be surprised if they kept him down one more year.

Dude is 22 (will be 23 mid-season) and will have completed his 5th year of professional hockey this year. Keeping him in the AHL arbitrarily would be a pretty wild decision in the final year of his ELC given the state of the Sharks defense.

This isn't rushing 19 year old Mirco Mueller to the NHL or anything like that. It's the next step in his development where the lessons that he'd learn in the AHL can be learned concurrently while playing in the NHL.

 

[Shark Finn]

If they get Celebrini I'd be willing to up my offer and offer Stamkos 3x18.

You might, Hasso won't.

 

[STL Shark]

If there was an acceptable trade on the table for Ferraro he would probably be gone by now.

We have a surplus of vets who can play top 4 minutes. Can they perform well in that role? Of course not. But there's no reason to play Mukhamadullin or Thrun higher than 3rd pair unless they earn it.

I'd look into a buy low option on Kotkaniemi in a hockey deal for Ferraro. Seems like his time in Carolina is running out as he's a healthy scratch when they have a healthy lineup. Underlyings show a guy that's been a bit snake bitten from a point production standpoint and the contract has enough years on it that you may be able to get Carolina to toss in a sweetener as well.

Carolina is losing Skej, Pesce, and Deangelo so could probably use a cheaper 4/5 defenseman while also moving a contract out the door for some cap space.

 

[coooldude]

Dude is 22 (will be 23 mid-season) and will have completed his 5th year of professional hockey this year. Keeping him in the AHL arbitrarily would be a pretty wild decision in the final year of his ELC given the state of the Sharks defense.

This isn't rushing 19 year old Mirco Mueller to the NHL or anything like that. It's the next step in his development where the lessons that he'd learn in the AHL can be learned concurrently while playing in the NHL.

All I said is I wouldn't be surprised. I didn't say that's what I think will or should happen.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'd look into a buy low option on Kotkaniemi in a hockey deal for Ferraro. Seems like his time in Carolina is running out as he's a healthy scratch when they have a healthy lineup. Underlyings show a guy that's been a bit snake bitten from a point production standpoint and the contract has enough years on it that you may be able to get Carolina to toss in a sweetener as well.

Carolina is losing Skej, Pesce, and Deangelo so could probably use a cheaper 4/5 defenseman while also moving a contract out the door for some cap space.

I was thinking about that possibility. I wonder what Carolina would want with Burroughs or Rutta to make that sort of deal happen.

 

[Juxtaposer]

If there was an acceptable trade on the table for Ferraro he would probably be gone by now.

We have a surplus of vets who can play top 4 minutes. Can they perform well in that role? Of course not. But there's no reason to play Mukhamadullin or Thrun higher than 3rd pair unless they earn it.

You’re missing my point, which is that it would be a mistake to run it back with the same defense as this year. Something needs to change, big time. We need someone who can actually do decently in top-4 minutes, not the bottom pairing vets who have been drowning this year.

 

[TheBeard]

I'm hoping they find a trade for Burroughs or Rutta at the least. They're going to be stuck with Benning and they need to get Emberson in the lineup as well. Now that they have Thompson, they don't need both Burroughs and Rutta. Hopefully, they can be used as a way to acquire some forwards with cap to reach the floor. Not sure who makes real sense there but someone will be looking to dump some forwards that we can dump one of those guys as part of the process.

I like Benning and Ruuta seems like a good mentor for the kids like Shakir and Thompson. I don't anticipate Vlasic playing a ton and I'm with you on Burroughs. He brings nothing. At least Thrun has youth.

You’re missing my point, which is that it would be a mistake to run it back with the same defense as this year. Something needs to change, big time. We need someone who can actually do decently in top-4 minutes, not the bottom pairing vets who have been drowning this year.

I'd be willing to off the Pitts pick for a young established D-man (like a Noah Dobson for example)

 

[Hodge]

You’re missing my point, which is that it would be a mistake to run it back with the same defense as this year. Something needs to change, big time. We need someone who can actually do decently in top-4 minutes, not the bottom pairing vets who have been drowning this year.

But why bother? If we win the lottery and both Celebrini and Smith will be on the team to start the season then sure, I see the logic in trying to add a top 4 defenseman or two. Otherwise I think we should just run it back on defense for the most part and wait for some of these contracts to expire before actively adding more.

I'd be willing to off the Pitts pick for a young established D-man (like a Noah Dobson for example)

Yeah we're not getting a 24 year old 6'4" point per game defenseman for the 15th overall pick. I'm not even sure we could get him for the 2nd or 3rd pick this year.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I like Benning and Ruuta seems like a good mentor for the kids like Shakir and Thompson. I don't anticipate Vlasic playing a ton and I'm with you on Burroughs. He brings nothing. At least Thrun has youth.

I don't care for Benning all that much. I've just accepted that it's highly unlikely we trade him or buy him out given his injury status. Hopefully, he'll be healthy for next season and can fill in where needed. Rutta at least has some championship experience to convey. Burroughs is pretty much just there to eat minutes where possible but he sucks and offers nothing that can't be replaced by literally anyone available. Our best bet to get rid of Burroughs is if we're taking someone else's cap dump. Like I would trade Burroughs with a 3rd or 4th for Goodrow and a 1st or something like that. Rutta, I think we can get a 3rd for at the deadline though we'd probably have to give up like a 5th or 6th to get another team to retain on him for us.

I'd like our pairings next year to have Emberson, Mukhamadullin, and Thrun on different pairings. Ferraro and Emberson as a top pairing works if we're not really trying to compete. I'd hope to put Benning and Rutta on there with Muk and Thrun but we'll see. Given the lack of retention slots, it may make sense to move Rutta in the offseason instead of waiting for the deadline. We'll see. I hope that there's a lot of movement on the blue line to put it into better position to compete when the youth starts to come together as a group.

 

[TheBeard]

Yeah we're not getting a 24 year old 6'4" point per game defenseman for the 15th overall pick. I'm not even sure we could get him for the 2nd or 3rd pick this year.

It would just be a starting point, and not necessarily Dobson. I'm saying I think the pick could be a valuable trade commodity for a still young yet established d-man. Think of the Debrincat trade. Isles may not want to re-sign Noah for 10 mil either after next year.

I don't care for Benning all that much. I've just accepted that it's highly unlikely we trade him or buy him out given his injury status. Hopefully, he'll be healthy for next season and can fill in where needed. Rutta at least has some championship experience to convey. Burroughs is pretty much just there to eat minutes where possible but he sucks and offers nothing that can't be replaced by literally anyone available. Our best bet to get rid of Burroughs is if we're taking someone else's cap dump. Like I would trade Burroughs with a 3rd or 4th for Goodrow and a 1st or something like that. Rutta, I think we can get a 3rd for at the deadline though we'd probably have to give up like a 5th or 6th to get another team to retain on him for us.

I'd like our pairings next year to have Emberson, Mukhamadullin, and Thrun on different pairings. Ferraro and Emberson as a top pairing works if we're not really trying to compete. I'd hope to put Benning and Rutta on there with Muk and Thrun but we'll see. Given the lack of retention slots, it may make sense to move Rutta in the offseason instead of waiting for the deadline. We'll see. I hope that there's a lot of movement on the blue line to put it into better position to compete when the youth starts to come together as a group.

I don't mind Benning as a 5-6 guy (or a 4 guy on this team). He's good enough especially at his salary. I'm not sure what kind of future Emberson has as he seems to be the type of player who'll never be durable enough. I'm also not sure anyone would bring in Ruuta unless we're taking someone back. TBH, if we're bringing in kids to play a lot on the blueline then I'd rather keep Jan's experience around at lest until the deadline.

 

[Hodge]

It would just be a starting point, and not necessarily Dobson. I'm saying I think the pick could be a valuable trade commodity for a still young yet established d-man. Think of the Debrincat trade. Isles may not want to re-sign Noah for 10 mil either after next year.

If that pick is the starting point we would need to add Will Smith.

Dobson is a big young established #1 defenseman, DeBrincat is a tiny one dimensional winger. One is clearly more expendable and carries far more trade value than the other.

 

[TheBeard]

If that pick is the starting point we would need to add Will Smith.

Dobson is a big young established #1 defenseman, DeBrincat is a tiny one dimensional winger. One is clearly more expendable and carries far more trade value than the other.

Again, it doesn't have to be Dobson. I'm just saying getting a young D-man for the pick instead of bringing aboard someone who's not really going to be available (more or less) for a while isn't a bad alternative, especially if you want someone in there who'd going to also immediately help the young talent we're bringing up.

 

[Hodge]

Again, it doesn't have to be Dobson. I'm just saying getting a young D-man for the pick instead of bringing aboard someone who's not really going to be available (more or less) for a while isn't a bad alternative, especially if you want someone in there who'd going to also immediately help the young talent we're bringing up.

Let's just keep our first round picks for now instead of trading them for a mediocre defenseman who will be in his late 20s by the time we're competitive again. Because that's realistically all you're getting for the 15th overall pick plus other minor pieces.

 

[ChompChomp]

I'd like our pairings next year to have Emberson, Mukhamadullin, and Thrun on different pairings. Ferraro and Emberson as a top pairing works if we're not really trying to compete. I'd hope to put Benning and Rutta on there with Muk and Thrun but we'll see.

What about Calen Addison? He'll be an RFA after this season.

 

[TheBeard]

Let's just keep our first round picks for now instead of trading them for a mediocre defenseman who will be in his late 20s by the time we're competitive again. Because that's realistically all you're getting for the 15th overall pick plus other minor pieces.

I don't necessarily agree. Romanov was traded at the age of 22 for 13th plus Isles threw in a third. He'd be ideally the kind of player we could use so it's not as if these guys aren't available.

What about Calen Addison? He'll be an RFA after this season.

The way he's going, he may be in jail by the weekend.

 

[Hodge]

I don't necessarily agree. Romanov was traded at the age of 22 for 13th plus Isles threw in a third. He'd be ideally the kind of player we could use so it's not as if these guys aren't available.

Isles made that trade a year after back to back ECF appearances. It doesn't make any sense for a team in our position to start moving 1sts (unless to trade down like in 2022).

What about Calen Addison? He'll be an RFA after this season.

Hopefully playing for another team.

 

[STL Shark]

It would just be a starting point, and not necessarily Dobson. I'm saying I think the pick could be a valuable trade commodity for a still young yet established player. Think of the Debrincat trade. Isles may not want to re-sign Noah for 10 mil either after next year.


I don't mind Benning as a 5-6 guy (or a 4 guy on this team). He's good enough especially at his salary. I'm not sure what kind of future Emberson has as he seems to be the type of player who'll never be durable enough. I'm also not sure anyone would bring in Ruuta unless we're taking someone back. TBH, if we're bringing in kids to play a lot on the blueline then I'd rather keep Jan's experience around at lest until the deadline.

Rutta and Benning are both guys that can and will be moved at the deadline next year if they prove to be healthy. Benning would have gotten a lot of interest per sources/scouts this deadline if healthy. They're both RHD and have size/physicality that contenders will covet if for nothing other than depth.

 

[TheBeard]

Isles made that trade a year after back to back ECF appearances. It doesn't make any sense for a team in our position to start moving 1sts (unless to trade down like in 2022).

I get that and understand it, however with 2 first last year, 2 this year and 2 next, if there's ever a time to consider moving one of them for someone a little more established (not old, someone who's still in their very early 20s) then I'd like to go that route. It especially makes more sense if we do win the draft lotto and end up with Macklin., D-men usually take longer to develop and unless the team wants to keep going to the discount rack for guys like Addison or just spending cheap on bottom pairing D-men like Benning and Burroughs then the best route is to see what's out there that we may not know.

Rutta and Benning are both guys that can and will be moved at the deadline next year if they prove to be healthy. Benning would have gotten a lot of interest per sources/scouts this deadline if healthy. They're both RHD and have size/physicality that contenders will covet if for nothing other than depth.

I don't see Benning being moved as I believe he's still got two years left, no? Ruuta I agree, and I think he should be moved at the deadline, but not during the offseason. I also don't know whether or not getting a 6th for Ruuta is more valuable than keeping him for the entire season, especially if the team plans on playing the kids more like Thompson and Shakir or, hell, even a Laroque if they want to see.

 

[SjMilhouse]

Dude is 22 (will be 23 mid-season) and will have completed his 5th year of professional hockey this year. Keeping him in the AHL arbitrarily would be a pretty wild decision in the final year of his ELC given the state of the Sharks defense.

This isn't rushing 19 year old Mirco Mueller to the NHL or anything like that. It's the next step in his development where the lessons that he'd learn in the AHL can be learned concurrently while playing in the NHL.

I forgot about rushing Mueller. What a wild idea that was

 

[Sendhelplease]

I get that and understand it, however with 2 first last year, 2 this year and 2 next, if there's ever a time to consider moving one of them for someone a little more established (not old, someone who's still in their very early 20s) then I'd like to go that route. It especially makes more sense if we do win the draft lotto and end up with Macklin., D-men usually take longer to develop and unless the team wants to keep going to the discount rack for guys like Addison or just spending cheap on bottom pairing D-men like Benning and Burroughs then the best route is to see what's out there that we may not know.


I don't see Benning being moved as I believe he's still got two years left, no? Ruuta I agree, and I think he should be moved at the deadline, but not during the offseason. I also don't know whether or not getting a 6th for Ruuta is more valuable than keeping him for the entire season, especially if the team plans on playing the kids more like Thompson and Shakir or, hell, even a Laroque if they want to see.

With regards to Benning I could see him being moved even with two years left because he is only making 1.25 a year which is next to nothing and could likely be buried if a team is desperate. I think we move Rutta at the deadline next year if he wants to be moved because it is a situation where Grier and the team want to do right by the player.