Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Juxtaposer]

Even if we don't bring in a defenseman like Pesce, having Mukhamadullin on D plus a healthy Benning and a healthy Emberson--plus Thompson if he can make the jump--would lead to, well, far from a good D, but at least a D comprised of cromulent parts. So I would say that if a signing or trade doesn't make sense or materialize, there's no need to force it over the summer, since you'd already have an improvement over this year's.

For me, bringing in an established top-4 defenseman with defensive acumen is an absolute must this offseason. It obviously doesn’t have to be Pesce, because he’ll be the belle of the ball and have his choice of a dozen other teams to pick from, but we need someone who can eat defensive minutes and do decently (ie not Mario Ferraro). It could be a UFA, it could be a trade target (something like Halttunen + 2nd to bring in a youngish #4) but something has to change. We can’t go into next season with zero top-4 D again and expect to be taken seriously as a franchise, we just can’t.

 

[TheBeard]

For me, bringing in an established top-4 defenseman with defensive acumen is an absolute must this offseason. It obviously doesn’t have to be Pesce, because he’ll be the belle of the ball and have his choice of a dozen other teams to pick from, but we need someone who can eat defensive minutes and do decently (ie not Mario Ferraro). It could be a UFA, it could be a trade target (something like Halttunen + 2nd to bring in a youngish #4) but something has to change. We can’t go into next season with zero top-4 D again and expect to be taken seriously as a franchise, we just can’t.

Man I'd love to be able to pry Brandon Carlo out of Boston and maybe bring in Chris Tanev.

 

[timorous me]

There are a lot of better players than the Kyle Burroughs of the world. Grier purposely brought in the absolute bottom of the barrel options in both trade and FA (Hoffman, Ruuta, Burroughs, Givanni Smith, Zadina, Bailey, Carpenter, Blackwood etc.

Right. That's why I mentioned Pesce (and because Jux brought him up). But as nice a player as he is, as better as he is than the guys brought in last summer, he's not going to move the needle in terms of excitement. I'd be all for trying to get him, but odds are even with an add like that and some of the prospects coming up, we're still bad for the next couple years.

I also think it's worth clarifying the classification of the guys acquired last summer that you mentioned--Granlund was part of that group, too, so he shouldn't be left out. But if we look at the three brought in from the Pens, I feel like part of that was simply making ends meet financially (so as to not have to retain more of Karlsson's salary), and then hoping for some resurgence so these guys might be flipped for future assets. I don't think Grier would target Hoffman, especially, if it weren't for that. Granlund and Rutta had more appeal, even if Rutta was known to be kind of past it and Granny was something of damaged goods.

The other guys mentioned? Zadina and Blackwood basically came in as low-risk reclamation projects with a degree of upside. Zadina was just 23, Blackwood 26 (pretty young for a goalie), so while not exciting to the average fan, there's good reason for a team like the Sharks to take them on.

The others? Basically organizational filler, which every team needs. Problem is we needed to play them all a lot this year. Carpy, for instance, should have been the Cuda captain instead of playing 57 games for the Sharks.

Oh, and Duclair, who was a smart pickup for the cost and also should be included in the conversation.

There's not a lot of excitement from this whole group Grier brought in, but I don't think we should necessarily look at it as him purposefully bringing in only lousy players. It's more complicated (and difficult) for him than that.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Man I'd love to be able to pry Brandon Carlo out of Boston and maybe bring in Chris Tanev.

Tanev has been one of my favorite defensemen for a long time, I'd love to see him in teal

 

[TheBeard]

Tanev has been one of my favorite defensemen for a long time, I'd love to see him in teal

A cup win in dallas would help our chances or bringing someone like him in.

 

[TheBeard]

Right. That's why I mentioned Pesce (and because Jux brought him up). But as nice a player as he is, as better as he is than the guys brought in last summer, he's not going to move the needle in terms of excitement. I'd be all for trying to get him, but odds are even with an add like that and some of the prospects coming up, we're still bad for the next couple years.

I also think it's worth clarifying the classification of the guys acquired last summer that you mentioned--Granlund was part of that group, too, so he shouldn't be left out. But if we look at the three brought in from the Pens, I feel like part of that was simply making ends meet financially (so as to not have to retain more of Karlsson's salary), and then hoping for some resurgence so these guys might be flipped for future assets. I don't think Grier would target Hoffman, especially, if it weren't for that. Granlund and Rutta had more appeal, even if Rutta was known to be kind of past it and Granny was something of damaged goods.

The other guys mentioned? Zadina and Blackwood basically came in as low-risk reclamation projects with a degree of upside. Zadina was just 23, Blackwood 26 (pretty young for a goalie), so while not exciting to the average fan, there's good reason for a team like the Sharks to take them on.

The others? Basically organizational filler, which every team needs. Problem is we needed to play them all a lot this year. Carpy, for instance, should have been the Cuda captain instead of playing 57 games for the Sharks.

Oh, and Duclair, who was a smart pickup for the cost and also should be included in the conversation.

There's not a lot of excitement from this whole group Grier brought in, but I don't think we should necessarily look at it as him purposefully bringing in only lousy players. It's more complicated (and difficult) for him than that.

I don't think it was a question of him bringing in lousy players per se so much as the idea that he was bringing in guys whose values were as low as they could possibly be. Duclair was the only one that didn't fit that criteria but we all knew he was as good as gone at the deadline the moment we made the deal. I don't think what Grier attempted to do this year was wrong by any metric. He did what needed to be done, I've mentioned it time and time again. He brought in cheap guys in the hopes any of them could exceed the value of their minimum contracts. But I don't think anyone was under the illusion that the collection of acquisitions was meant as anything more than a hopeful last place finish. I doubt Grier saw Blackwood and Zadina, for examples, as anything more than "I doubt we'll get much out of them which helps our trek towards last, but if we do then, hey bonus!".

As I've said before, I don't see how he can go into the offseason next year with the exact same plan.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Tanev has been one of my favorite defensemen for a long time, I'd love to see him in teal

Tanev would be a great option if he were willing to take a 2-3 year deal here, but everything I’ve heard says he’s going to Vancouver.

 

[Grinner]

Offer Mat Roy a 7x7 deal. Yes it's an over payment, but bottom of the barrel teams often need to over pay. And I know he'd be in his upper 30's when the deal ends
Skjie could also be a target. But not a 7 year contract target

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I like Stammer but I honestly don't know why he'd want to waste his last few years on a rebuilding squad. I mean he just turned 34 so the only way he'd come here is if we vastly overpaid him on a two year deal.

The best reason to do so is because we gave him the most money to do so. If he wants to take less to compete then more power to him. I'm just saying if there's any guy to overpay on term and dollars for when you have this much space, Stamkos is the guy that seems to fit the absolute best. I just really like the idea of having Stamkos with Celebrini to have him learn from the guy who did what we're basically asking Celebrini to do if we luck ourselves into that pick.

 

[Jargon]

I concur with Jux and others here: I don’t mind us being bad, but this lineup is embarrassing and Grier needs to do whatever he can to bring in real help on defense and probably 2-3 vets on offense to help shelter any and all of the new prospects who might be up.

Our lineup right now looks insane - Granlund as a 1C, KUNIN as 2C, like Jesus Chris, we’re like a pretty good AHL team.

 

[Sysreq]

Before we start trying to sign veteran UFAs, we need to finish drafting our “core” group. We have a lot of great pieces, but if we don’t get a franchise center this draft, I think the tank continues. Smith is good, but he is ultimately a Marner; we still need our Mathews.

 

[Barrie22]

Before we start trying to sign veteran UFAs, we need to finish drafting our “core” group. We have a lot of great pieces, but if we don’t get a franchise center this draft, I think the tank continues. Smith is good, but he is ultimately a Marner; we still need our Mathews.

So we need demidov? And not Celebrini?

 

[one2gamble]

So we need demidov? And not Celebrini?

We need both, make it happen

 

[Jts4thgoal]

With all the good press Kunin is getting, it can only be 2 things.

1. Pumping up his value for a sign and trade.

Or

2. He is getting a contract for 4 years 12-16 mill.

Captain Kunin is never leaving us.

 

[STL Shark]

I like Stammer but I honestly don't know why he'd want to waste his last few years on a rebuilding squad. I mean he just turned 34 so the only way he'd come here is if we vastly overpaid him on a two year deal.

And if he were to waste his time on a rebuilding team, it sure as heck wouldn't be in a non-tax advantageous area for a team with minimal fan support in an area he has no connections. If he wants to be on a rebuilding team, he will wind up in Ottawa or Montreal where they at least have people in the stands to watch and he'd be closer to home.

Going and playing for the Sharks right now would be insanely depressing and very hard to get amped up for after playing meaningful hockey winning Cups, and making plenty of money.

 

[STL Shark]

Offer Mat Roy a 7x7 deal. Yes it's an over payment, but bottom of the barrel teams often need to over pay. And I know he'd be in his upper 30's when the deal ends
Skjie could also be a target. But not a 7 year contract target

Huge difference between overpaying on a short term deal and overpaying on a deal that is 100% destined to end in a buyout. I wouldn't even want to give Pesce a 7 year deal. Sure as heck not giving Roy a 7 year deal as a 29 year old.

If he wanted to sign for say 4 years at $7M per year, I'd entertain that. 7 years is a stupid hole to dig yourself back into after literally just getting out of salary cap hell and having cap space. If any fanbase should know better than to give 7-8 year deals to 28-30 year olds, you'd expect it to be this one.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Before we start trying to sign veteran UFAs, we need to finish drafting our “core” group. We have a lot of great pieces, but if we don’t get a franchise center this draft, I think the tank continues. Smith is good, but he is ultimately a Marner; we still need our Mathews.

Adding a veteran UFA or two will not impact this team tanking next year. Just makes them look and feel more competitive in games (ie. bring fans to the games)

Pesce would be perfect, but why would he want to come here?

 

[Grinner]

Huge difference between overpaying on a short term deal and overpaying on a deal that is 100% destined to end in a buyout. I wouldn't even want to give Pesce a 7 year deal. Sure as heck not giving Roy a 7 year deal as a 29 year old.

If he wanted to sign for say 4 years at $7M per year, I'd entertain that. 7 years is a stupid hole to dig yourself back into after literally just getting out of salary cap hell and having cap space. If any fanbase should know better than to give 7-8 year deals to 28-30 year olds, you'd expect it to be this one.

If you want to get a a FA like Roy, as a bottom feeder, you need to be prepared to offer up more than the other guys.
In the mean time he improves our D and mentors the kids

 

[Sendhelplease]

If you want to get a a FA like Roy, as a bottom feeder, you need to be prepared to offer up more than the other guys.
In the mean time he improves our D and mentors the kids

Even if this would never happen I would prefer us to offer Roy an extreme amount over a short term than giving him 7x7. I'd prefer to offer 3x10 because we don't need the cap space now, we will need it when the team is good.

 

[Saskatoon]

And if he were to waste his time on a rebuilding team, it sure as heck wouldn't be in a non-tax advantageous area for a team with minimal fan support in an area he has no connections. If he wants to be on a rebuilding team, he will wind up in Ottawa or Montreal where they at least have people in the stands to watch and he'd be closer to home.

Going and playing for the Sharks right now would be insanely depressing and very hard to get amped up for after playing meaningful hockey winning Cups, and making plenty of money.

I doubt Stammer comes here but Ontario and Quebec are not low tax jurisdictions either

 

[CupfortheSharks]

Even if this would never happen I would prefer us to offer Roy an extreme amount over a short term than giving him 7x7. I'd prefer to offer 3x10 because we don't need the cap space now, we will need it when the team is good.

Why not? This is exactly what I think Grier should do. It’s the only way we are a realistic choice for any high end UFA and we have cap space to burn for the next few seasons. Bringing in 1 or 2 guys to take the hard matchups and shelter the kids is a very good use of that cap space. What we shouldn’t do is overpay on any long term deals.

 

[STL Shark]

I doubt Stammer comes here but Ontario and Quebec are not low tax jurisdictions either

No, but they're Canadian cities that get him back to Canada and actually have fans and atmosphere at their games (the other part of the equation).

 

[STL Shark]

If you want to get a a FA like Roy, as a bottom feeder, you need to be prepared to offer up more than the other guys.
In the mean time he improves our D and mentors the kids

Still doesn't address the fact that you're giving a 29 year old mostly average 2nd pairing guy a long-term deal until he's 36. I get having to overpay, but handing out loads of term after you just finished getting out from under loads of term is silly. Overpay by going with a 3-4 year deal at $8.5M per year when other teams are offering 6 years at $6M per year. Don't increase the term and the AAV. Get him the same money (or close to it) in less years and allow him to get another contract to add more to it.

Roy isn't even close to prime Vlasic level player and we've seen how that contract aged when you give a defensive defenseman a 7x7 beginning in their age 30 season. Why on earth do people want to recreate the exact same mistakes that got us into this mess by signing older players to max term deals?

 

[Hodge]

We already have Ferraro, Vlasic, Benning, Burroughs, Rutta and Mukhamadullin signed for next season with Emberson and Thrun likely to be re-signed as well. I don't think it makes sense to add even more defensemen to the roster until 2025 unless we're also trading some of these guys.

 

[coooldude]

We already have Ferraro, Vlasic, Benning, Burroughs, Rutta and Mukhamadullin signed for next season with Emberson and Thrun likely to be re-signed as well. I don't think it makes sense to add even more defensemen to the roster until 2025 unless we're also trading some of these guys.

Definitely, any major FA move would likely involve a trade of one of these players. This is also why, if we don't win Celebrini, we might expect that Grier lets it ride and we have one more year of pretty bad performance.

Mukh looked good in the call-up, but I frankly wouldn't be surprised if they kept him down one more year.