NHL 2023-2024 Out of Town: Regular Season III

[MarchysNoseKnows]

They didn't have to do anything of the sort and it's not 'just procedure'. The law requires no such thing. The law adheres to the presumption of innocence and this is a subversion of that.

But I hope you're right that lifting of the suspension will occur soon now that this is all properly public.

They knew who the five players were. But couldn’t announce who the five players were publicly. This isn’t a subversion of the law (Hockey Canada has no legal obligation to the legal principle of presumption of innocence). They do have a legal obligation in Canada not to name who was being investigated.

If they suspended the five players (and thus outed them), they would be in violation of Canadian law. Since they didn’t know when the charges would be levied (and given how long the process has gone they couldn’t know when that would be), they needed to prevent a situation where the players would be eligible for a Hockey Canada event and even potentially played in one, while HC knew they were a suspect. In order to avoid that situation from happening, they proactively suspended the entire team. They didn’t have to do it, but not doing so would have created a potentially horrible situation.

If Hockey Canada (or the NHL for that matter) had to adhere to the legal principle presumption of innocence, then the five players should be eligible to play now.

The remainder of the team will soon be made eligible. Cale Makar will be able to play in the tournament next year and the Olympics. Procedurally, given the shitshow that this whole thing has been and the complete incompetence of the police and Hockey Canada throughout, this was about the only smart thing HC did.

 

[GordonHowe]

Sources: Three options on the table for Arizona Coyotes’ future in the desert

Will the Coyotes break ground on an arena, sell to a local buyer or relocate to Salt Lake City?

www.dailyfaceoff.com

 

[ODAAT]

I just need to say THANK YOU FOR DOING THIS KIND OF WORK.

I am thankful every day for people like yourself and my wife (mental health counselor in a school) for doing the work that you do. I cannot imagine the mental taxation of doing it day in and day out. Without people like you, we'd be in much more trouble.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Thank you for your kind words, and to your wife for being on the frontlines of mental health counselor as well

 

[22Brad Park]

Leafs want Tanev but it was nice reading that Flames want a 2nd round pick for Tanev and beens as though Leafs have no 2nds for 3 yrs they were told its a 1st .

 

[Aussie Bruin]

They knew who the five players were. But couldn’t announce who the five players were publicly. This isn’t a subversion of the law (Hockey Canada has no legal obligation to the legal principle of presumption of innocence). They do have a legal obligation in Canada not to name who was being investigated.

If they suspended the five players (and thus outed them), they would be in violation of Canadian law. Since they didn’t know when the charges would be levied (and given how long the process has gone they couldn’t know when that would be), they needed to prevent a situation where the players would be eligible for a Hockey Canada event and even potentially played in one, while HC knew they were a suspect. In order to avoid that situation from happening, they proactively suspended the entire team. They didn’t have to do it, but not doing so would have created a potentially horrible situation.

If Hockey Canada (or the NHL for that matter) had to adhere to the legal principle presumption of innocence, then the five players should be eligible to play now.

The remainder of the team will soon be made eligible. Cale Makar will be able to play in the tournament next year and the Olympics. Procedurally, given the shitshow that this whole thing has been and the complete incompetence of the police and Hockey Canada throughout, this was about the only smart thing HC did.

Nobody should have been suspended until charges were laid, especially given the shitshow nature of this matter that has seen it drag on for years. You're right that the presumption of innocence isn't a legally binding obligation upon an organisation but it is a legal principle that should be respected throughout society, not just in the courts. Provisionally suspending people without even a charge violates the principle and should at all costs be avoided, especially when it concerns people who are merely being tarred via association.

Once Hockey Canada went down the path they did in the last 12 months, there is a logic to their decision and to your reasoning for it. But I vehemently disagree with the fundamental premise on which it rests, that you sanction first then ask questions second. IMO, it's the wrong way around.

 

[Number8]

Why? A guy like Makar hasn't been charged, nor even implicated in any wrongdoing. How is it remotely fair that he is deemed ineligible because of the alleged behaviour of his teammates over which he has no control? If I were him or one of the others I'd be furious.

Obviously at present they're not actually missing out on anything, but Hockey Canada needs to sort this out, sooner rather than later.

Life is not fair.

Bottom line is that there have been 5 players charged but many other players have been interviewed. We know nothing about who knew what, when and the optics are brutal.

We don’t know much of anything other than the names and charges levied at some players. Meanwhile the court, as I understand it, has put a cloak over identity of other names. Why? We have no idea.

Hockey Canada — who acted like scum throughout — probably can’t start saying Player X is allowed while Player Y is not. To do so would effectively run afoul of that ruling. IMO they’ll keep the blanket thrown across the whole team/roster.

Fair? Probably not but life is full of things that are not fair.

Besides, it would not be the first time a group as a whole has been penalized for the actions of a few/many, but not all.

Is what it is.

 

[Bridges31]

Dadonov making the leafs D look bad on that one. 2-1 Dallas and he just walked right in and their d backed off.

 

[Aussie Bruin]

Life is not fair.

Bottom line is that there have been 5 players charged but many other players have been interviewed. We know nothing about who knew what, when and the optics are brutal.

We don’t know much of anything other than the names and charges levied at some players. Meanwhile the court, as I understand it, has put a cloak over identity of other names. Why? We have no idea.

Hockey Canada — who acted like scum throughout — probably can’t start saying Player X is allowed while Player Y is not. To do so would effectively run afoul of that ruling. IMO they’ll keep the blanket thrown across the whole team/roster.

Fair? Probably not but life is full of things that are not fair.

Besides, it would not be the first time a group as a whole has been penalized for the actions of a few/many, but not all.

Is what it is.

What's the justification to suspend? Convenience or 'we're looking into all possibilities' don't cut it. If I were Makar or Thomas and I eventually got through this whole thing in the clear, I'd sue Hockey Canada for reputational damages.

 

[CDJ]

What's the justification to suspend? Convenience or 'we're looking into all possibilities' don't cut it. If I were Makar or Thomas and I eventually got through this whole thing in the clear, I'd sue Hockey Canada for reputational damages.

Thomas and Makar would make $0. Everything has been answered pretty well by marchyknows and number8, it absolutely cuts it

Sucks for those guys but at the end of the day it is what it is- it’s a scandal that encompasses a big portion of that team and they couldn’t single guys out publicly.


Innocent until proven guilty isn’t a standard Hockey Canada has to adhere to with their decision making fwiw, they’re not an American court

 

[Number8]

What's the justification to suspend? Convenience or we're looking into all possibilities don't cut it. If I were Makar or Thomas and I eventually got through this whole thing in the clear, I'd sue Hockey Canada for reputational damages.

Tell it to the Canadian judge who put a block on any names of others who might be witnesses, involved, or whatever.

HC is unlikely to name who’s ok and who’s not, IMO. The team as a whole was defective. And given the horror show that this is, the fact that Cale Makar can’t represent Canada internationally is pretty low on list of outrages.

Hockey Canada was dirty and slimy. London Police at best were inept, at best. Several Canada players — not just the five we know — acted like absolute pigs. While representing Canada, no less.

Perhaps it’s fair to Makar and others, perhaps it’s not. Neither you or I know.

Meanwhile, as far as reputation goes, they are part of a team that many members of which behaved like subhumans (found guilty or not) and will always be so. Perhaps they should sue the pigs they played with and called teammates?

 

[CDJ]

Ultimately it comes down to this- HC legally couldnt single out the players and they couldn’t let a guy like Carter Hart represent them internationally (a real possibility)

Now if they had handled things differently and everything was taken seriously from the jump then perhaps we aren’t even talking about this. But they didn’t really have much of a choice after things developed the way they did

Makar and Thomas will be representing Canada in no time, by the next Olympics…presumably…unless more crazy stuff comes out

 

[Aussie Bruin]

Tell it to the Canadian judge who put a block on any names of others who might be witnesses, involved, or whatever.

HC is unlikely to name who’s ok and who’s not, IMO. The team as a whole was defective. And given the horror show that this is, the fact that Cale Makar can’t represent Canada internationally is pretty low on list of outrages.

Hockey Canada was dirty and slimy. London Police at best were inept, at best. Several Canada players — not just the five we know — acted like absolute pigs. While representing Canada, no less.

Perhaps it’s fair to Makar and others, perhaps it’s not. Neither you or I know.

Meanwhile, as far as reputation goes, they are part of a team that many members of which behaved like subhumans (found guilty or not) and will always be so. Perhaps they should sue the pigs they played with and called teammates?

Lot of pre-judgment you've got going on there. You have strong opinions on this, that's ok, I get it. On the alleged incident itself, I have no fixed view. The full evidence and the trial need to play out. But no doubt some of the behaviour, even what has been admitted by the accused, is at the very least bad and trending quickly towards disturbing. Not going to dispute that. But what exactly occurred, and who did what, we don't yet know, and realistically in some senses probably never will.

Other than that, I work in law enforcement, so I probably come at this with a different lens or angle to many. A lot of how this has been handled has clearly been bungled, and there's a lot of ugly politics at work. Two wrongs though don't make a right, and while I agree that it's not a high priority in the grand scheme of the matter, the blanket suspension simply seems wrong in both principle and practice to me, for a variety of reasons. None of the arguments to the contrary have convinced me. That's just how I see it.

Ultimately it comes down to this- HC legally couldnt single out the players and they couldn’t let a guy like Carter Hart represent them internationally (a real possibility)

Now if they had handled things differently and everything was taken seriously from the jump then perhaps we aren’t even talking about this. But they didn’t really have much of a choice after things developed the way they did

Makar and Thomas will be representing Canada in no time, by the next Olympics…presumably…unless more crazy stuff comes out

I think there was still a choice, but agree that how HC acted initially put them in a difficult situation by their own doing. On some other aspects we disagree, but not a problem.

 

[Bruinaura]

Guessing Sergachev is done for the season, took a hit and I don't think feet are supposed to point in that direction.

 

[RoccoF14]

8:45pm (Local Time) puck drop for the Hawks-Wild, so TNT can broadcast a double header on a Wednesday night?

That kinda sucks for Hawks fans going to the game.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

Leafs looked pretty good went to the game in Toronto tonight.

Seguin has regressed a ton and lost his wheels was badly beat chasing down a loose puck by the D man. Stars are a very solid team that would give us a tough series in the finals though played last night and no Oettinger.

Another arena thats a lot better for hockey than TD Garden the steep lower bowl is great. Not too much luxury seating either. Wasn't in the uppers but they have railings for every row like the old Garden did.

 

[CDJ]

Tinordi and Marcus Foligno just had a nice tilt

 

[22Brad Park]

Leafs looked pretty good went to the game in Toronto tonight.

Seguin has regressed a ton and lost his wheels was badly beat chasing down a loose puck by the D man. Stars are a very solid team that would give us a tough series in the finals though played last night and no Oettinger.

Another arena thats a lot better for hockey than TD Garden the steep lower bowl is great. Not too much luxury seating either. Wasn't in the uppers but they have railings for every row like the old Garden did.

Yea they had 4 powerplay goals .There top players can hurt you there for sure .

 

[Bridges31]

I cringed at that Sergachev injury. Venture over to main boards but it’s pretty bad. Feel bad for the guy.

 

[CDJ]

Yeah that’s a break

Honestly it may have a better prognosis than if he tore a knee up, depending on the break

 

[AngryMilkcrates]

oof That made me jump

 

[Alicat]

 

[Gee Wally]

 

[AngryMilkcrates]

That should put to rest any Maroon talk here. Not a fan, but hope he makes a full recovery.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

That should put to rest any Maroon talk here. Not a fan, but hope he makes a full recovery.

I'm sure there will be people here who advocate for trading for Maroon coming off back surgery.

 

[Number8]

Lot of pre-judgment you've got going on there. You have strong opinions on this, that's ok, I get it. On the alleged incident itself, I have no fixed view. The full evidence and the trial need to play out. But no doubt some of the behaviour, even what has been admitted by the accused, is at the very least bad and trending quickly towards disturbing. Not going to dispute that. But what exactly occurred, and who did what, we don't yet know, and realistically in some senses probably never will.

Other than that, I work in law enforcement, so I probably come at this with a different lens or angle to many. A lot of how this has been handled has clearly been bungled, and there's a lot of ugly politics at work. Two wrongs though don't make a right, and while I agree that it's not a high priority in the grand scheme of the matter, the blanket suspension simply seems wrong in both principle and practice to me, for a variety of reasons. None of the arguments to the contrary have convinced me. That's just how I see it.



I think there was still a choice, but agree that how HC acted initially put them in a difficult situation by their own doing. On some other aspects we disagree, but not a problem.

I get it - and I do understand and respect your argument. No innocent party, in an ideal world, should suffer due to the behaviors of others.

My issue is that at best 5 players had sex consecutively with a young lady in a hotel room over several hours during an event that was supposed to celebrate Canadian hockey and an International championship. During this time police report a not insignificant additional number of players on the team having "watched" the show. I don't think that is in any dispute. All this during a government/taxpayer funded event (I presume -- but I know the players sure didn't foot the bill).

At worst, the young lady was accosted and sexually assaulted by at least 5 players.

A team is a team. The team won the Championship - not the five (and possibly more) guys. They all got their moment of glory with the trophy and the benefits that came along with that.

Now, using that same "all for one" team mantra, some are possibly paying an unfair price for actions of several of their teammates.

Perhaps not fair, but I think a blanket ban is unavoidable given the court ruling and the disgusting behavior of several players on that team. It's just my opinion though.

I'm with you -- we're good -- I respect your opinions on this and as you say, just agree with some but disagree with others.