The offence is making me think that they made the right choice in not getting a starter and saving their prospects for another day.
Kikuchi is infuriating but even with better pitching they would still lose a lot of these games.
Blue Jays GDT: 2022 v8 | Next: Fri, Aug 12 | vs Cle | 7:00pm ET/4:00pm PT | Quantrill vs Berrios
- Thread starter The Nemesis
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
- Status
The offence is making me think that they made the right choice in not getting a starter and saving their prospects for another day.
Kikuchi is infuriating but even with better pitching they would still lose a lot of these games.
Seath The Scaleless
Paledrake
Yeah maybe. But it must be so deflating to be down by multiple runs early in the game as often as it has happened lately.
I know it's a team sport but the players who shoulder most of the blame are Jose Berrios, Yusei Kikuchi and Bo Bichette - if these three guys had the seasons they were projected to have, the Jays could seriously be right up there with NYY. If you look up and down the roster, these three guys have been the most dissapointing by a landslide.
Kikuchi was signed to replace Matz but it hasn't happened at all. Matz had a 113 ERA+ last year as our #5 guy while Yusei has a 77 ERA+ as our #5 guy - he's got great stuff but he can't seem to be put it together
Berrios might be the biggest one to blame. Traded two top prospects to get him, paid him 9 figures over 7 years, and was our opening day start...yet he's pitching like someone who shouldn't even be in the majors for a lot of this season. He has the highest ERA among all starters in the whole league, he's surrendered the most home runs and earned runs in the entire league, and his ERA+ is 53 (!!!) points lower than it was last year. The team has had to play catch-up on so many occasions because of how many runs cross the plate when he's pitching
Bichette is also another big offender. His OPS+ is 15 points lower than last year, he's not getting on base, he's not stealing bases, he's a rally killer because he's been awful hitting with RISP, and his K rate is 6% higher than last years (he's about to match his total strikeout rate from last year and it's only mid-August) - dude can't put the ball in play consistently or even work a count and teams are catching onto this. If Bo cannot adjust, he'll become the next Javy Baez rather than the next Jose Altuve.
Everyone else has held up their end of the bargain. Sure, Vladdy's numbers are down but then again, you can't expect him to have such a legendary year every single season, he's still putting up elite numbers this year. Springer's production is a bit down but that's mostly because of his elbow injury, as long as he can get healthy again when things really matter, I'm not worried about him. Chapman and Teo got off to horrendous starts but have bounced back very strongly, can't complain about their production despite the high K rates (it's always been part of their profile). Kirk and Gurriel have been flat out elite. Espinal is doing everything you can ask for from a 8/9-hitter who plays excellent defense.
Manoah and Gausman have been tremendous and are easily one of the best 1-2 duos in the league. Ryu's injury sucks but honestly, Stripling's production this year has been better than anything Ryu has displayed since early on in 2021.
Unlike 2021, you can't even blame the bullpen that much. The guys that are supposed to be good have delivered for the most part from Romano, Cimber, Mayza, Bass, Pop, Phelps, Garcia etc. sure, Trevor Richards has been a disappointment but if you're relying on him to be a difference maker you're a fool lol. The bullpen has honestly not been as bad as I thought it would be and it's clearly no longer a glaring weakness for the team like it was last year.
Kikuchi is probably the odd one out once Stripling comes back as we now have Mitch White to be our #5 guy but Berrios and Bichette MUST get better if this team wants any chance at one, getting into the playoffs, and two, actually doing something in the playoffs.
Kikuchi was signed to replace Matz but it hasn't happened at all. Matz had a 113 ERA+ last year as our #5 guy while Yusei has a 77 ERA+ as our #5 guy - he's got great stuff but he can't seem to be put it together
Berrios might be the biggest one to blame. Traded two top prospects to get him, paid him 9 figures over 7 years, and was our opening day start...yet he's pitching like someone who shouldn't even be in the majors for a lot of this season. He has the highest ERA among all starters in the whole league, he's surrendered the most home runs and earned runs in the entire league, and his ERA+ is 53 (!!!) points lower than it was last year. The team has had to play catch-up on so many occasions because of how many runs cross the plate when he's pitching
Bichette is also another big offender. His OPS+ is 15 points lower than last year, he's not getting on base, he's not stealing bases, he's a rally killer because he's been awful hitting with RISP, and his K rate is 6% higher than last years (he's about to match his total strikeout rate from last year and it's only mid-August) - dude can't put the ball in play consistently or even work a count and teams are catching onto this. If Bo cannot adjust, he'll become the next Javy Baez rather than the next Jose Altuve.
Everyone else has held up their end of the bargain. Sure, Vladdy's numbers are down but then again, you can't expect him to have such a legendary year every single season, he's still putting up elite numbers this year. Springer's production is a bit down but that's mostly because of his elbow injury, as long as he can get healthy again when things really matter, I'm not worried about him. Chapman and Teo got off to horrendous starts but have bounced back very strongly, can't complain about their production despite the high K rates (it's always been part of their profile). Kirk and Gurriel have been flat out elite. Espinal is doing everything you can ask for from a 8/9-hitter who plays excellent defense.
Manoah and Gausman have been tremendous and are easily one of the best 1-2 duos in the league. Ryu's injury sucks but honestly, Stripling's production this year has been better than anything Ryu has displayed since early on in 2021.
Unlike 2021, you can't even blame the bullpen that much. The guys that are supposed to be good have delivered for the most part from Romano, Cimber, Mayza, Bass, Pop, Phelps, Garcia etc. sure, Trevor Richards has been a disappointment but if you're relying on him to be a difference maker you're a fool lol. The bullpen has honestly not been as bad as I thought it would be and it's clearly no longer a glaring weakness for the team like it was last year.
Kikuchi is probably the odd one out once Stripling comes back as we now have Mitch White to be our #5 guy but Berrios and Bichette MUST get better if this team wants any chance at one, getting into the playoffs, and two, actually doing something in the playoffs.
Last edited:
Cloned
Begging for Bega
- Aug 25, 2003
- 82,355
- 73,477
Lol that was by accident. It said I didn't post it the first time so I clicked "post reply" again and it pasted it twice stupid HFB glitchYou feel so strongly about this that you had to say it twice
stickty111
Registered User
- Jan 23, 2017
- 27,260
- 34,233
From that post, here are my thoughts.
If you can convince Bo to move to 2nd, he should be apart of the core. I have major issues with his approach at the plate and his refusal to adjust in a tough season, but I believe in his talent. The positional chance needs to be done. He has improved but some big red flags come up on certain plays.
Teo and Gurriel are both connected IMO. If management commits to one or the other, it's fine by me. I don't really have a personal choice of who they should. I am fine with either.
Catching is the easiest decision. You go with Kirk and Moreno. Jansen works well with the staff but that doesn't make up for having no bat. I don't care if his luck turns around with a new team but it won't here, and we have enough of a sample size to suggest it's not just luck, he isn't a good hitter. We are set here either way.
BP needs to be addressed. You don't spend crazy on it but add velocity at least. Sounds cliche but the harder you throw, the better your chances are of doing well. We can't have Thornton's anymore.
The starter thing depends on if this year is just a one time thing for Berrios. I am for some reason confident Berrios will bounce back next season but I don't know that. If he does, you just find a 4th starter and your rotation is good. However if they believe this continues, than you need to aim higher.
You could improve the offense and might need to if we are letting one of Gurriel or Teo go. The lefty bat gets overrated so I am not worried about that. It's nice to have but not a big deal. Overall here you are looking for an OF and another INF. I'm a fan of Espinal but we don't know what he is yet. Lastly have a capable bench so you have options.
On the manager, I think Schnieder is better than Charlie but even he looks out of place at times which is bad considering Charlie was too. If someone becomes available, than make the change otherwise stick with Schnieder. Fire Martinez the hitting coach. The approaches are terrible. Keep Walker. He's getting criticism lately which makes 0 sense to me. He's a good coach but he won't fix every pitcher. He's not a miracle worker.
I agree with this. I would also add Springer should get more playing time with the corner outfield positions so maybe add a CF? Maybe Bo can play the outfield as another poster suggested.
It will be an interesting off-season. A shakeup is definitely needed but the team has a lot of solid pieces
Cloned
Begging for Bega
- Aug 25, 2003
- 82,355
- 73,477
This offseason could set us up for long term success or ensure that we get stuck in “not quite good enough territory.”
- Dec 12, 2017
- 26,014
- 12,459
ShaneFalco
Registered User
It's playing catch-up every game lately. They get scored on in every first inning
I won't pile on Bo, but man, he needs to be better
I won't pile on Bo, but man, he needs to be better
Bo stays. I can't imagine they dump him after he's been so good for the rest of his career. Keep in mind he has that whole family abuse thing hanging over his head right now. His game went right back into the shitter when that came out. You can tell he's not all there mentally because he's starting to show it in his body language/actions given he nearly slammed a helmet last night which is so out of character for a guy who's usually even keeled and calm.
Of the core they assembled, Teo's probably the odd man out. One dimensional, can't play defense very well. Dude is going to get paid out the ass and he's going to be over 30 by time he's a free agent
Gurriel stays. There's a lot things wrong with the team right now but he isn't one them. Sweetheart contract for what he brings and he's under team control until like 2025.
Catching situation is simple. Jansen has had every chance to prove he's the guy. He has not. Out the door he goes and let Kirk/Moreno platoon there. I'm sure game calling won't be an issue once Moreno has had a full camp with the starters.
For the "bat vs arm" thing there's two ways you can approach this. The first is hoping Berrios rebounds back to career norms after this season and spending money on a bat. The other is shoring up the pitching by trading Teo and hoping Merrifield rebounds to career norms so he can offset the loss in offense. Merrifield is under team control until 2025 as well.
Managerial decision I have zero clue. From what I've seen I don't think Schneider is going to be the guy going forward but that's about all I can say.
Coaching staff should be cleaned out. Hitting coach gone, Walker probably gone and then Rivera as well since their base running has been piss poor
CabanaBoy5
Registered User
The playoff prospects are getting worse and yet we still give rest days to key players? Stop with that load management. It ain’t working. The players have to get into a groove. If we were the Yankees and had a playoff spot secured, fine. But we need to field our best team every game from here to the end of the season. Rest in October after you’re eliminated.
Similarly, if a starter is doing well, don’t take him out after 85 pitches. If a bullpen pitcher is pitching well, give him another inning. It’s crunch time and we need wins. For a talented team like ours, we should not be in this position.
Similarly, if a starter is doing well, don’t take him out after 85 pitches. If a bullpen pitcher is pitching well, give him another inning. It’s crunch time and we need wins. For a talented team like ours, we should not be in this position.
Yeah. You can tell from his body language that this is a player who is not having fun right now and whose personal stuff away from the diamond is really wearing him down. Totally different person from prior years.
Hopefully he can have a good offseason and his family can sort some stuff out and he can come back next year in the right place mentally.
Agree with pretty much all of this but Gurriel is a FA after next season due to the nature of the deal he signed out of Cuba.
Also I do think there's an outside chance the Jays can keep Teo on a friendly contract. Strikes me as a guy who likes the situation he's in.
Every time they showed him close up (which unfortunately for him was when he made all of those mistakes last night) he looked like he'd rather be anywhere else but on the field.
It's almost alien for Bo to look that disinterested/out of sorts. Hopefully he can find some type of peace with his situation because I feel for the guy.
Where is this notion that Kikuchi has "great stuff" coming from?
He has a fastball which he cant locate and below average secondary pitches. It screams lefty bullpen guy.
Berrios who has a below average fastball in terms of velocity needs to maintain a very high spin rate to be successful and he's been wildly inconsistent. He was never deserving of his massive contract. That's on Atkins.
Bo is just being immature in his approach. Completely undisciplined and he's become an easy out for teams with good scouting reports. Adaptation is key and that's on Bo and the coaching staff. The question is whether that's with the Jays or another team.
The bullpen overall has been ok. Not stellar but passable. Good enough under normal circumstances to win some games if they weren't pitching from behind.
Even Pete cant fix Shatskins mistakes of evaluating of Pitching Baker was another example last night not good enough for JAYS but thriving with the Orioles
Well hopefully Kikuchi can come out of the bullpen from now onward as Stripling is set to return.
Berrios was actually known for his consistency coming into this season which is why they traded two top prospects for him and gave him that large deal. His numbers from 2018-2021 were improving each year so I can't say it was a bad contract because most people thought he was gonna be what Gausman/Manoah are this season.
Bo's hitting approach is simply not good enough once teams have faced him enough. First few years no one knew how to pitch to him so he put up those elite numbers but now we can see a player who's swing is deeply flawed. I hope he doesn't become Javy Beaz 2.0
Bullpen has honestly not been as bad as I thought. When the Jays are in position to win games (i.e. tied or ahead once the starter leaves), they've been able to close out most of the games unlike in 2021 where they blew countless leads. They have a handful of high leverage guys they can use down the stretch so I don't think the bullpen is an achilles heel anymore.
Most of their losses this year has been because the starter (usually Berrios or Kikuchi) puts the team in an early hole by giving up a few runs, are pulled early so the Jays have to use low-leverage relievers to eat innings, while the offence are forced to play comeback for the entire game.
Fonally bichette down in the lineup. Its about time
weems
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2008
- 18,843
- 13,512
ShaneFalco
Registered User
EpochLink
Canucks and Jets fan
Vladdy having an off year but still producing.
As he should, put the team on his shoulders.
The lineup looks lifeless out there.
As he should, put the team on his shoulders.
The lineup looks lifeless out there.
- Status
