Blue Jays GDT: 2022 v4 | Next: Sun, May 29 | @ LAA | 4:00pm ET/1:00pm PT | Berrios vs Sandoval

[The Nemesis]

Anyone still want to defend Montoyo???

Nobody's been defending Montoyo for several seasons now.

 

[lebdafor norris]

Should have just let Phelps stay, did the Jays clown manager actually though the Cards would let them get the lefty vs left matchup in extra innings at home and with a runner on 3rd, instead the Jays had to let Borucki pitch who has really struggled with walks since he entered the league.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

another great managerial move by Charlie. Hey they got a guy who hits lefties for .519 so yeah let's make that move even though the righty just struck out the last batter and had a base to play with.

Remember all these losses when they cry oh but we on 91 games and missed the playoffs. I count 3 so far this season.

I’m no Montoyo fan but these losses are on the absolutely putrid offence. How about Teoscar and Vladdy get a hit in a close game. Vladdy particularly, superstar couldn’t get a key hit if his life depended on it, especially with the bases loaded. But hey, keep kibitzing around in the dugout instead of figuring out a way to get a key hit.

And don’t give me the hittters are too good for this to continue. These losses count too and first place is becoming a distant dream.

 

[ryno23]

I’m no Montoyo fan but these losses are on the absolutely putrid offence. How about Teoscar and Vladdy get a hit in a close game. Vladdy particularly, superstar couldn’t get a key hit if his life depended on it, especially with the bases loaded. But hey, keep kibitzing around in the dugout instead of figuring out a way to get a key hit.

And don’t give me the hittters are too good for this to continue. These losses count too and first place is becoming a distant dream.

but when the bats go cold a manager has to be even better to figure out how to avoid losing games they should win.

Why is Espinal hitting 2nd and then in the 10th is trying to hit a bomb vs hitting to the right side to bring Vlad up with a runner on 3rd and 1 out. The would have had to pitch to him not walk him

 

[CabanaBoy5]

but when the bats go cold a manager has to be even better to figure out how to avoid losing games they should win.

Why is Espinal hitting 2nd and then in the 10th is trying to hit a bomb vs hitting to the right side to bring Vlad up with a runner on 3rd and 1 out. The would have had to pitch to him not walk him

But that’s on Espinal. That’s baseball 101,knowing you should be hitting to the right side to advance the runner. I’m not absolving Montoyo of some boneheaded decisions, but it’s on the players to get more than 4 hits in a game or strand 10 men on base again.

 

[canucksfan]

Montoyo sucks but the offense is the biggest problem. Just look at the OPS of the hitters in the lineup.

Even if you look at wRC only Espinal is at his career average or better. Springer is very close.

 

[The Nemesis]

I’m no Montoyo fan but these losses are on the absolutely putrid offence. How about Teoscar and Vladdy get a hit in a close game. Vladdy particularly, superstar couldn’t get a key hit if his life depended on it, especially with the bases loaded. But hey, keep kibitzing around in the dugout instead of figuring out a way to get a key hit.

And don’t give me the hittters are too good for this to continue. These losses count too and first place is becoming a distant dream.

You can't expect that an offence, even one as theoretically good as the Jays, should cover for the incompetence of the manager's lineup/substitution decisions.

Vladdy is going to wake up and be VLADDY again at some point. I highly doubt Charlie's going to walk through the dugout door one day and suddenly morph into Bobby Cox.

 

[CherryToke]

Charlie says he was surprised that they would pinch hit for their rookie in a lefty lefty matchup.. Charlie deserves his own comic strip

 

[Scotianhab]

Charlie says he was surprised that they would pinch hit for their rookie in a lefty left matchup.. Charlie deserves his own comic strip

What a f***ing moron. His shit is getting old. We also have 3 coaches who work with the hitters, so maybe fire 1 or 2 to wake the rest of the team up.

 

[GreytWun]

Pujols is still playing?!! The man has been a replacement/below replacement player for like half a decade now.

He’s back home where he should be in St Louis and he’s just going for the top positions in the record books. His offensive numbers are better than half our players so their is that.

 

[theaub]

I’m no Montoyo fan but these losses are on the absolutely putrid offence. How about Teoscar and Vladdy get a hit in a close game. Vladdy particularly, superstar couldn’t get a key hit if his life depended on it, especially with the bases loaded.

Amazed to see how many people in here are disagreeing with this. The offense has scored more than three runs a grand total of two times in the last 11 games. Its embarrassing.

 

[Bjindaho]

Amazed to see how many people in here are disagreeing with this. The offense has scored more than three runs a grand total of two times in the last 11 games. Its embarrassing.

Charlie can't make the offense go, but he can definitely decide that he's going to DH Springer on a day when Gurriel is not available to give us both Zimmer and Tapia in the same game (and has done so repeatedly).

He can also wear out our bullpen by pulling starters early.

The issue here is that with the offense sputtering, his poor decisions become even more critical to us losing.

There is something really off about this team, and it needs to be fixed. I don't know if it is Charlie, the hitting coach, the analytics group or who, but something has to give. You cannot keep giving up games for no reason in the hopes that patterns that are backed by the stats will suddenly change.

 

[Discoverer]

You can't expect that an offence, even one as theoretically good as the Jays, should cover for the incompetence of the manager's lineup/substitution decisions.

What? This is ridiculous. If the offense was performing anywhere close to its potential we wouldn't be talking about managerial decisions because the Jays would be winning and scoring a ton of runs no matter what the lineup looked like, even when Springer gets a day to DH or Teoscar gets a day off or whatever.

Reality is literally the exact opposite "You can't expect an offense to overcome the incompetence of the manager's lineup/substitution decisions". If the offense is performing, those lineup/substitution decisions barely matter.

That's not to excuse the egregious use of Borucki last night - that was brutal the second the decision was made and regardless of the result, and I would say that's a legitimate example of a manager throwing a winnable game away with a stupid decision. That was clearly a Romano situation, and if he wasn't available or something and I just missed it, sticking with Phelps would be better. But holy shit do people ever overstate the impact a manager has on a team.

 

[lebdafor norris]

Charlie says he was surprised that they would pinch hit for their rookie in a lefty lefty matchup.. Charlie deserves his own comic strip

Just goes to show you how much though goes thru his head when making decisions, how in the world did he not see that a possible Borucki vs Goldschmidt matchup with the game winning run on 3rd is absolutely awful for the Jays. I mean why even bring Borucki up in a high stress situation unless you exhausted all other options, Borucki has struggled keeping his walks down ever since he entered the league.

 

[thehockeysong]

Charlie says he was surprised that they would pinch hit for their rookie in a lefty lefty matchup.. Charlie deserves his own comic strip

That's a tough comment to come back from lol. Montoyo could be on the hot seat more than we think - but our front office doesn't seem like a rush to make changes group. They're pretty methodical, so I only see a Montoyo firing happening in the offseason if we somehow missed the playoffs.

 

[Discoverer]

Just goes to show you how much though goes thru his head when making decisions, how in the world did he not see that a possible Borucki vs Goldschmidt matchup with the game winning run on 3rd is absolutely awful for the Jays. I mean why even bring Borucki up in a high stress situation unless you exhausted all other options, Borucki has struggled keeping his walks down ever since he entered the league.

Yep, that's pretty awful for Montoyo to say that. Everything that happened once Borucki came in was completely predictable - the Cards going to the bench for a righty, Borucki struggling to find the zone and allowing Goldschmidt to come to the plate, Goldschmidt destroying the lefty reliever.

Hell, I'm one of the more optimistic among us, and I expected it to go poorly as soon as they showed Borucki coming in. When Montoyo walked out to the mound I actually said "Nice, going to Romano to shut it down" before they showed Borucki. Just such a horrible move.

 

[Rysto]

 

[Discoverer]

Good call, Showalter.

 

[supermann_98]

I’m no Montoyo fan but these losses are on the absolutely putrid offence. How about Teoscar and Vladdy get a hit in a close game. Vladdy particularly, superstar couldn’t get a key hit if his life depended on it, especially with the bases loaded. But hey, keep kibitzing around in the dugout instead of figuring out a way to get a key hit.

And don’t give me the hittters are too good for this to continue. These losses count too and first place is becoming a distant dream.

Many examples in the past of a team just not hitting and after firing the manager they miraculously start hitting the cover off the ball.

Not gonna get into whether this is the hitters intentionally tanking to get Montoya fired but stranger things have happened.

We don't have any idea what goes on behind the scenes or what the players actually think of Montoya, all indications are he's a player's manager, but it certainly looks nothing like the team the first 2 weeks of the season who made 8-0 comebacks look like a walk in the park

 

[canucksfan]

That's a tough comment to come back from lol. Montoyo could be on the hot seat more than we think - but our front office doesn't seem like a rush to make changes group. They're pretty methodical, so I only see a Montoyo firing happening in the offseason if we somehow missed the playoffs.

They are but the front office also can’t piss away this season.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Get rid of Guilermo Martinez. He is clearly not teaching the hitters how to make adjustments. Or maybe he is, but they aren’t getting it?

 

[thehockeysong]

Maybe Charlie doesn't actually like being a manager. "What do I have to say for these guys to fire me!"

 

[Discoverer]

Get rid of Guilermo Martinez. He is clearly not teaching the hitters how to make adjustments. Or maybe he is, but they aren’t getting it?

I remember these same comments about Martinez last year before the team got it going. I think patience is really important in a 162 game season.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I remember these same comments about Martinez last year before the team got it going. I think patience is really important in a 162 game season.

You’d think they have to go on a hot streak really soon, right? The numbers are way too low on some of our guys. They have to correct themselves at some point, right?

 

[theaub]

Many examples in the past of a team just not hitting and after firing the manager they miraculously start hitting the cover off the ball.

Not gonna get into whether this is the hitters intentionally tanking to get Montoya fired but stranger things have happened.

We don't have any idea what goes on behind the scenes or what the players actually think of Montoya, all indications are he's a player's manager, but it certainly looks nothing like the team the first 2 weeks of the season who made 8-0 comebacks look like a walk in the park

The last sentence is kind of the point isn't it - do people really think that something's happened regarding Montoyo that's turned this offense into a pumpkin? Unless Charlie has the magical switch to get Vlad to stop looking like 10 year old me up there chopping the ball into the ground every AB then I don't really see the point.

I'm sure if Montoyo gets fired we'll get the 2008 Cito Gaston regression bump because this team is just too good for it not to happen, but that's not a manager issue/success.

You can't expect that an offence, even one as theoretically good as the Jays, should cover for the incompetence of the manager's lineup/substitution decisions.

Vladdy is going to wake up and be VLADDY again at some point. I highly doubt Charlie's going to walk through the dugout door one day and suddenly morph into Bobby Cox.

Also because I enjoy pedantry let's not forget that Bobby Cox, with 7 above average regulars and a .340 OBP Tony Fernandez existing, hit Damaso Garcia (.302 OBP, 82 OPS+) leadoff for the entirety of a 99 win season.