Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[Sharkz4Fun]

That's just terrible asset management. Give Zetterlund a chance in a full season and see what he does.

What would actually be terrible asset management = wasting a roster space on a peak 4th liner when they could try legitimately 5-10 other players in the same spot and get better results. They can get away from him for free now instead of a next year buyout.

 

[Coily]

(Puts on body armor)

What if the Sharks went after a guy like Milan Lucic? He could run the other team, rack up PIMs, and fight guys like Marcus Foligno.

Anyways, enjoy.

 

[timorous me]

Again, Zetterlund should not be qualified. If Grier gave him that contract I would really lose all hope.

You are aware that his hockey career didn't begin on the day he arrived in San Jose, right?

I'm not here to defend Zetterlund's performance with the Sharks, but he's shown well for the Devils and in the minors and possesses some of the tools and intangibles that could make him a good 3rd-liner in the future. Bad asset management would be setting him loose for nothing. What else are the Sharks going to use that $2 million on? A 30-something winger on the downslope of his career?

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

(Puts on body armor)

What if the Sharks went after a guy like Milan Lucic? He could run the other team, rack up PIMs, and fight guys like Marcus Foligno.

Anyways, enjoy.

You are aware that his hockey career didn't begin on the day he arrived in San Jose, right?

I'm not here to defend Zetterlund's performance with the Sharks, but he's shown well for the Devils and in the minors and possesses some of the tools and intangibles that could make him a good 3rd-liner in the future. Bad asset management would be setting him loose for nothing. What else are the Sharks going to use that $2 million on? A 30-something winger on the downslope of his career?

See : Above. We can sit here and talk about potential all we want, but with how soft every single player on the team is, Lucic is a better use of that cap, and that's just one example. If both Zetterlund/Lucic can't skate, pass, shoot, or play defense, one of them can at least hit and fight. I didn't see any "intangibles" from Zetterlund compared to the way someone like Sturm showed them.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

"Soft"
"Peak 4th liner"
"can't skate, pass, shoot or play defense"
'waste of a roster space.'

I'm all for subjectivity, but isn't that borderline contempt? It's like you have a personal axe to grind.

The way I see it - he's 23, coming off his first full NHL season (and adjusting to a trade), and was a PPG AHLer barely 12 months ago. He's coming off a 1 year, two way contract. There's no way he gets that sort of money ($2.5m) off the bat, so we need to park the panic bus.

If he becomes a solid third liner for us, fantastic. He has shown his potential upside at New Jersey - let's encourage him and give him space to develop. It's not like this season he's blocking anyone's path...

 

[Hodge]

Again, Zetterlund should not be qualified. If Grier gave him that contract I would really lose all hope.

It's hard to find a perfect contract comparable for Zetterlund given his lack of NHL experience relative to his age but RFA forwards with arb rights and Zetterlund's career production (0.38 points per game) typically get around 2-3 million on a 2-3 year deal. See Joseph, Foegele, Kunin, Appleton, Dube and Zadina's current deals.

Donskoi had the same career points per game as Zetterlund and about 50 more games of experience when he signed his 2nd contract with the Sharks. That was 2 years for 2.6% of the cap which would be ~$2.2M under an $84M cap. Also we can easily afford someone like Lucic in addition to Zetterlund.

All that being said, I wouldn't be mad if the Sharks let Zetterlund walk either but I think Grier will sign him and something in the ballpark of the contract I suggested should be the price.

 

[Barrie22]

It's hard to find a perfect contract comparable for Zetterlund given his lack of NHL experience relative to his age but RFA forwards with arb rights and Zetterlund's career production (0.38 points per game) typically get around 2-3 million on a 2-3 year deal. See Joseph, Foegele, Kunin, Appleton, Dube and Zadina's current deals.

Donskoi had the same career points per game as Zetterlund and about 50 more games of experience when he signed his 2nd contract with the Sharks. That was 2 years for 2.6% of the cap which would be ~$2.2M under an $84M cap. Also we can easily afford someone like Lucic in addition to Zetterlund.

All that being said, I wouldn't be mad if the Sharks let Zetterlund walk either but I think Grier will sign him and something in the ballpark of the contract I suggested should be the price.

2.3 per or 2.3 total? I think the sharks could get him under 1.5 per season.

 

[Hodge]

2.3 per or 2.3 total? I think the sharks could get him under 1.5 per season.

Based on which other contracts? Keep in mind he has arbitration rights. Absolute floor would probably be Luostarinen’s 1.5x2 but Zetterlund’s points per game rate is significantly higher at time of signing.

 

[Barrie22]

Based on which other contracts? Keep in mind he has arbitration rights. Absolute floor would probably be Luostarinen’s 1.5x2 but Zetterlund’s points per game rate is significantly higher at time of signing.

Zadina has nearly 100 more games played. And the same career high. And makes 1.8 per. That would be the max.

Luostarinen had about 80 games more when he signed his current contract at 1.5 per.

NHL experience goes a long way for getting the larger comparisons. That is what zetterlund lacks is his experience, no way he should be over 1.5 mil.

 

[NiWa]

@Hodge
What about Gregor? Yes he can skate, but the couple of games at the end of the season (which ruined the tank!!!) don't have me convinced he deserves 1.75M yet either?

Would 1.75M be based on comparables?

 

[Hodge]

Zadina has nearly 100 more games played. And the same career high. And makes 1.8 per. That would be the max.

Luostarinen had about 80 games more when he signed his current contract at 1.5 per.

NHL experience goes a long way for getting the larger comparisons. That is what zetterlund lacks is his experience, no way he should be over 1.5 mil.

Balcers might actually be the best comp here. He got 1.55x2 with almost identical experience and production to Zetterlund so something like 1.6 per year on a 2 year deal is probably fair.

 

[Hodge]

@Hodge
What about Gregor? Yes he can skate, but the couple of games at the end of the season (which ruined the tank!!!) don't have me convinced he deserves 1.75M yet either?

Would 1.75M be based on comparables?

I was trying to be as generous as possible with the contract projections so 1.75 is definitely on the high end of Gregor's range. I could see anything from 1.3M (Grundstrom) to 1.7M (Trenin) on a 2 year deal.

 

[Gecklund]

Somehow we have two of the most frustrating players in Sharks history on one team in Gregor and Labanc. Really hoping one of them is gone next season.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

2.3 per or 2.3 total? I think the sharks could get him under 1.5 per season.

So do I. There's just no way he's bringing in more than $2m per. He's not even got 10 goals in the NHL yet, nor technically a full season (81 career games).

I appreciate the comparables always come to the fore in negotiations, but he also had no goals in 23 games as a Shark which is going to hurt his leverage. If I'm FZ, I'm probably eager as hell to get a 1 year deal and prove that's an outlier rather than scrap for extra pennies on the dollar for now.

 

[Cas]

I don't think Gregor or Zetterlund are going to wind up being anything more than mediocre bottom-six players who are probably marginal NHL players by the time the Sharks are actually good.

However, the Sharks are in exactly the position where they can afford to give players like that an opportunity to demonstrate that I am wrong. Better Gregor than a 32-year-old equivalent. As long as they're cheap (and both should come in under $1.5M/2), we can keep them and hope they develop beyond expectations. We could also trade them regardless of how they develop, getting bulk draft capital or, if we're really lucky, something nice.

I just hope they don't get Balcered. While Lindblom was a decent trial in isolation, he was overpaid by a lot to replace a cheaper equivalent. That's what we should be avoiding - paying real money to a mediocre vet to replace a cheaper, slightly younger guy.

 

[Wedontneedroads]

Sharks have 3 right handed defensemen in the entire organization (not including the reserve players and none of them will be signed) and 1(!!!) right handed NHL forward (not including Zetterlund), with a few more in the AHL being 4th liners at best in the NHL. I wouldn't even consider that NHL forward as being an NHL forward either. Been a problem for years that probably should start being addressed.

This right here.

There needs to be a much bigger right handed stick selection at the equipment sale next year. This year was one of the worst I have ever seen.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

Gonna go out on a limb and say Zetterlund has a bounce back year. Those 22 games is too small a sample size after coming over so late in the season. What surely should be a confidence boosting WC showing for Sweden and a full training camp with the Sharks, Zetterlund will be settled and ready to take his game to the next level. I think some chemistry will go along way.

 

[Mafoofoo]

At the very least hope Zetterlund plays ok enough that we can trick some team into trading for him for a mid round draft pick.

 

[STL Shark]

At the very least hope Zetterlund plays ok enough that we can trick some team into trading for him for a mid round draft pick.

Could easily do that right now if we wanted. Wholly irrational take to think that he should be non-QO'd. We live in a world where a guy like Namestnikov yielded a 4th round pick. Zetterlund in current form is worth a 2nd or at worst a 3rd.

 

[mogambomoroo]

Give Peterson and Zetterlund a 1-year prove it deals and go from that forward.
I don't really care what we do with Noah Gregor honestly.

First thing I want to see next year is Gushchin in the big club. I really think he has shown flashes that he can score. I think Gush is one of those guys that need to play in NHL rather than AHL, even though stats don't necessary show that he is NHL ready. Bordeleau should get a better look too, he needs NHL time.
Play young guys and use the veteran presence of Hertl/Couture (Karlsson too if not traded) like they learned from Thornton, Marleau, Pavs and Burns. The transition from older regime to young regime should be done more smoothly, since we don't have many if any blue chip prospects that can take this team over. It's good for the development to have veterans in the mix.

I've said this before but I think Grier should try to make similar to Thrun/Peterson like deal or two this summer. Not that I don't trust his draft/scouting but I think MG should try to get young players for cheap that don't fit other organizations depth. More ice time in San Jose would be great for young and potential players.

I have no idea what to expect next year, really hope we can return fresh after the draft with high hopes in 3 years. Michkov I'm looking at you, please be our saviour.

 

[Jargon]

Give Peterson and Zetterlund a 1-year prove it deals and go from that forward.
I don't really care what we do with Noah Gregor honestly.

First thing I want to see next year is Gushchin in the big club. I really think he has shown flashes that he can score. I think Gush is one of those guys that need to play in NHL rather than AHL, even though stats don't necessary show that he is NHL ready. Bordeleau should get a better look too, he needs NHL time.
Play young guys and use the veteran presence of Hertl/Couture (Karlsson too if not traded) like they learned from Thornton, Marleau, Pavs and Burns. The transition from older regime to young regime should be done more smoothly, since we don't have many if any blue chip prospects that can take this team over. It's good for the development to have veterans in the mix.

I've said this before but I think Grier should try to make similar to Thrun/Peterson like deal or two this summer. Not that I don't trust his draft/scouting but I think MG should try to get young players for cheap that don't fit other organizations depth. More ice time in San Jose would be great for young and potential players.

I have no idea what to expect next year, really hope we can return fresh after the draft with high hopes in 3 years. Michkov I'm looking at you, please be our saviour.

If there’s one thing I’m positive of it’s that Grier is going to keep looking for players like Thrun and Peterson. They’ve done it so well so far, I see no reason to stop!

 

[tiburon12]

Somehow we have two of the most frustrating players in Sharks history on one team in Gregor and Labanc. Really hoping one of them is gone next season.

it's funny that they are frustrating for the opposite reasons.

With Gregor its all about the lack of finish. He has the drive, the wheels, the instincts, but just cant finish.

Labanc is like only finish. He just lacks the drive and instincts to get into positions to finish.

 

[Gecklund]

it's funny that they are frustrating for the opposite reasons.

With Gregor its all about the lack of finish. He has the drive, the wheels, the instincts, but just cant finish.

Labanc is like only finish. He just lacks the drive and instincts to get into positions to finish.

Yes this is exactly it.

Gregor does literally everything you want from a bottom sixer. He’s good enough defensively. He’s good in transition. He’s got speed to burn. He checks. Then just can’t score to save his life.

Labanc will do things in the offensive zone that you’re like whoa. Then he takes a lazy stick penalty. Or is just invisible for the rest of the game.

 

[tiburon12]

Yes this is exactly it.

Gregor does literally everything you want from a bottom sixer. He’s good enough defensively. He’s good in transition. He’s got speed to burn. He checks. Then just can’t score to save his life.

Labanc will do things in the offensive zone that you’re like whoa. Then he takes a lazy stick penalty. Or is just invisible for the rest of the game.

and then just when you think Labanc is useless he'll come down the wing and snipe one at a critical moment

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

"Soft"
"Peak 4th liner"
"can't skate, pass, shoot or play defense"
'waste of a roster space.'

I'm all for subjectivity, but isn't that borderline contempt? It's like you have a personal axe to grind.

The way I see it - he's 23, coming off his first full NHL season (and adjusting to a trade), and was a PPG AHLer barely 12 months ago. He's coming off a 1 year, two way contract. There's no way he gets that sort of money ($2.5m) off the bat, so we need to park the panic bus.

If he becomes a solid third liner for us, fantastic. He has shown his potential upside at New Jersey - let's encourage him and give him space to develop. It's not like this season he's blocking anyone's path...

Give Peterson and Zetterlund a 1-year prove it deals and go from that forward.
I don't really care what we do with Noah Gregor honestly.

First thing I want to see next year is Gushchin in the big club. I really think he has shown flashes that he can score. I think Gush is one of those guys that need to play in NHL rather than AHL, even though stats don't necessary show that he is NHL ready. Bordeleau should get a better look too, he needs NHL time.
Play young guys and use the veteran presence of Hertl/Couture (Karlsson too if not traded) like they learned from Thornton, Marleau, Pavs and Burns. The transition from older regime to young regime should be done more smoothly, since we don't have many if any blue chip prospects that can take this team over. It's good for the development to have veterans in the mix.

I've said this before but I think Grier should try to make similar to Thrun/Peterson like deal or two this summer. Not that I don't trust his draft/scouting but I think MG should try to get young players for cheap that don't fit other organizations depth. More ice time in San Jose would be great for young and potential players.

I have no idea what to expect next year, really hope we can return fresh after the draft with high hopes in 3 years. Michkov I'm looking at you, please be our saviour.

I would bet the house on Quinn playing Zetterlund over Gushchin again next year, and that is the very example of blocking someone's path. I still just find it so odd that Zetterlund needs time to find chemistry but Peterson, Gushchin, Kaut (whose path is also blocked, lol), etc. didn't. I of course have personal beef with him, /s.

Gregor shouldn't be qualified either. Has had enough time to find his chemistry and received an F from the teacher. Clearly was available at the deadline and will get league minimum or a contract in Europe if he isn't QO'd similar to Dahlen and every other AHL forward that the Sharks have not qo'd even though fans think they'll be superstars. Lindblom needs to go, but he's stuck for another year. Even though they won't be good and don't need to worry about cap, it is of course a better idea to use that cap on younger, already clearly better players that most importantly have already shown improvement and chemistry.