Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[Hodge]

I'm curious to hear what you guys think about this proposal from the Pens:

14th overall + Pickering + Granlund + POJ/Smith + 2024 3rd for Karlsson with 2.5m retained

Done. Don’t even really want or need POJ/Smith tbh.

Can the Penguins even fit this under the cap though? I would have guessed we needed to take the Petry contract too.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm curious to hear what you guys think about this proposal from the Pens:

14th overall + Pickering + Granlund + POJ/Smith + 2024 3rd for Karlsson with 2.5m retained

I'd probably be alright with this if it came to pass even if I may nitpick certain things like POJ/Smith being entirely unnecessary and that Pickering is coming into a team with a logjam of blue liners.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Done. Don’t even really want or need POJ/Smith tbh.

Can the Penguins even fit this under the cap though? I would have guessed we needed to take the Petry contract too.

Pens have an abundance of cap space this year. If they trade for Karlsson they'd need to flip Petry for an LD so id imagine thats a different deal.

 

[Gecklund]

I'm curious to hear what you guys think about this proposal from the Pens:

14th overall + Pickering + Granlund + POJ/Smith + 2024 3rd for Karlsson with 2.5m retained

I like the 14th overall pick but the rest is doesn’t interest me a ton. Pickering is nice but we already have Thrun, Shakir, and a few others on the left side. I’d probably hope another team could offer something similar with a forward prospect instead of the POJ/Smith throw in.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I like the 14th overall pick but the rest is doesn’t interest me a ton. Pickering is nice but we already have Thrun, Shakir, and a few others on the left side. I’d probably hope another team could offer something similar with a forward prospect instead of the POJ/Smith throw in.

I'd want them to swap POJ/Smith with Broz.

 

[Hodge]

I like the 14th overall pick but the rest is doesn’t interest me a ton. Pickering is nice but we already have Thrun, Shakir, and a few others on the left side. I’d probably hope another team could offer something similar with a forward prospect instead of the POJ/Smith throw in.

Pickering is 2-3 years younger than those guys and besides you can never have enough defensemen. If they somehow all develop into top 4 D those are valuable trade chips to address other needs.

 

[Gecklund]

Pickering is 2-3 years younger than those guys and besides you can never have enough defensemen. If somehow they all develop into top 4 D those are valuable trade chips to address other needs.

Oh definitely. I don’t disagree at all. I wouldn’t say absolutely not right away. I’d see if we got a similar offer with a F instead of D.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I'm curious to hear what you guys think about this proposal from the Pens:

14th overall + Pickering + Granlund + POJ/Smith + 2024 3rd for Karlsson with 2.5m retained

I’d probably do this with POJ.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Getting the 14th pick this year would be great, but my ideal return for EK is Bouchard from Edmonton.

I would start with EK for Bouchard straight up. If Edmonton wants retention or the Sharks to take cap dumps (Ceci, Yamamoto, Foegele, Campbell) they would have to add picks or prospects (Bourgault, Broberg) to match the value.

 

[Hodge]

Getting the 14th pick this year would be great, but my ideal return for EK is Bouchard from Edmonton.

I would start with EK for Bouchard straight up. If Edmonton wants retention or the Sharks to take cap dumps (Ceci, Yamamoto, Foegele, Campbell) they would have to add picks or prospects (Bourgault, Broberg) to match the value.

That ship has sailed. No way the Oilers move Bouchard after the playoffs he just had.

Also, this is depressing to write about a soon to be 24 year old, but I think Bouchard might actually be too old for the Sharks rebuild. He will certainly be UFA age before we're good again.

 

[Malkinstheman]

I'd want them to swap POJ/Smith with Broz.

I'd do that. Broz is years away from being anything. Pens need help for the next two years

 

[gaucholoco3]

That ship has sailed. No way the Oilers move Bouchard after the playoffs he just had.

Also, this is depressing to write about a soon to be 24 year old, but I think Bouchard might actually be too old for the Sharks rebuild. He will certainly be UFA age before we're good again.

I would give him a 7 year deal for 6mil so he would have 4 years with Michkov.

 

[gaucholoco3]

That ship has sailed. No way the Oilers move Bouchard after the playoffs he just had.

Also, this is depressing to write about a soon to be 24 year old, but I think Bouchard might actually be too old for the Sharks rebuild. He will certainly be UFA age before we're good again.

Hopefully the playoff performance puts them into even more of a cap bind.

EK with 50% retention would probably have a lower cap hit than Bouchard.

EK 50% for Bouchard, Yamamoto, Campbell, 24 1st might get close.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

That ship has sailed. No way the Oilers move Bouchard after the playoffs he just had.

Also, this is depressing to write about a soon to be 24 year old, but I think Bouchard might actually be too old for the Sharks rebuild. He will certainly be UFA age before we're good again.

They may not have a choice. His bridge would eat their remaining cap space when they need at least 4 mil more to fill the lineup up front. They don't really have anyone that you can confidently say they could get rid of for nothing that would save them cap dollars. If they buyout Campbell, they're just going to use his savings in net. Nobody will want Yamamoto or Foegele. Maybe Ceci but even that's debatable given the leverage they'd have there.

 

[Hodge]

They may not have a choice. His bridge would eat their remaining cap space when they need at least 4 mil more to fill the lineup up front. They don't really have anyone that you can confidently say they could get rid of for nothing that would save them cap dollars. If they buyout Campbell, they're just going to use his savings in net. Nobody will want Yamamoto or Foegele. Maybe Ceci but even that's debatable given the leverage they'd have there.

Bouchard doesn't have arb rights so unless he really wants out (and why would he?) he will probably accept a short bridge deal at a number that fits under their cap. He doesn't have much leverage right now and this allows him to really cash in when the cap is expected to rise by a lot.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Bouchard doesn't have arb rights so unless he really wants out (and why would he?) he will probably accept a short bridge deal at a number that fits under their cap. He doesn't have much leverage right now and this allows him to really cash in when the cap is expected to rise by a lot.

He may not have arbitration rights but just the threat of an offer sheet can really screw the Oilers over. If the Oilers aren't even going to offer something at the low 4 level, why wouldn't he hold out for an offer sheet that would? I would absolutely offer sheet him at 4.2 mil just to stick it to the Oilers.

 

[Juxtaposer]

That ship has sailed. No way the Oilers move Bouchard after the playoffs he just had.

Also, this is depressing to write about a soon to be 24 year old, but I think Bouchard might actually be too old for the Sharks rebuild. He will certainly be UFA age before we're good again.

To play devil’s advocate, is Bouchard even very good? He’s obviously pretty solid on the PP, but he’s not a good defender and doesn’t score much at evens. I would love if Edmonton gave him term at >$6M.

14th overall would be a preferable asset for me, especially with all the noise that Zach Benson may fall out of the top-10 in June.

 

[Hodge]

He may not have arbitration rights but just the threat of an offer sheet can really screw the Oilers over. If the Oilers aren't even going to offer something at the low 4 level, why wouldn't he hold out for an offer sheet that would? I would absolutely offer sheet him at 4.2 mil just to stick it to the Oilers.

I doubt he'll get 4 on a bridge. It's the NHL, nobody is going to sign him to an offer sheet. Even if another team made an offer it's a much better career move for him to stay in Edmonton for less money, QB a 30% power play for two years, then sign a long term deal with a cap hit that starts with 8 or 9.

To play devil’s advocate, is Bouchard even very good? He’s obviously pretty solid on the PP, but he’s not a good defender and doesn’t score much at evens. I would love if Edmonton gave him term at >$6M.

He's not a #1 defenseman by any means but I think he's a great puck mover which every team needs. Oilers are probably hoping he rounds out his defensive game a bit to at least get to John Carlson's level.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

To play devil’s advocate, is Bouchard even very good? He’s obviously pretty solid on the PP, but he’s not a good defender and doesn’t score much at evens. I would love if Edmonton gave him term at >$6M.

14th overall would be a preferable asset for me, especially with all the noise that Zach Benson may fall out of the top-10 in June.

15 out of his 17 playoff points came on the powerplay with McDavid and Draisaitl.
Caveat emptor!

 

[Hodge]

15 out of his 17 playoff points came on the powerplay with McDavid and Draisaitl.
Caveat emptor!

Yeah, he's not putting up numbers like that anywhere else. If his agent has any sense they'll settle with Edmonton on a cheap 2 year bridge to set him up nicely for the big payday.

 

[Lebanezer]

15 out of his 17 playoff points came on the powerplay with McDavid and Draisaitl.
Caveat emptor!

That’s nuts. Crazy how he and McDavid struggled to get points 5 on 5.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I doubt he'll get 4 on a bridge. It's the NHL, nobody is going to sign him to an offer sheet. Even if another team made an offer it's a much better career move for him to stay in Edmonton for less money, QB a 30% power play for two years, then sign a long term deal with a cap hit that starts with 8 or 9.

That only makes sense if there's actually a long term deal at that rate after that when it's very much doubtful that happens. The Oilers won't give him that. A new team is probably going to be very tentative about doing that to a 25 or 26 year old carried by McDavid or Draisaitl. If Edmonton isn't even going to offer 4, why wouldn't he wait and see? I would absolutely offer sheet him five years, 4.2 mil aav and force Edmonton's hand.

 

[Hodge]

That only makes sense if there's actually a long term deal at that rate after that when it's very much doubtful that happens. The Oilers won't give him that. A new team is probably going to be very tentative about doing that to a 25 or 26 year old carried by McDavid or Draisaitl. If Edmonton isn't even going to offer 4, why wouldn't he wait and see? I would absolutely offer sheet him five years, 4.2 mil aav and force Edmonton's hand.

If he's among the highest scoring defensemen in the league over the next two years, and if healthy there's no reason he won't be, somebody will pay him. Even if he "only" gets the Morgan Rielly contract (7.5x8), he'd be leaving $10 million on the table in years 3-5 vs. your proposed offer sheet.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If he's among the highest scoring defensemen in the league over the next two years, and if healthy there's no reason he won't be, somebody will pay him. Even if he "only" gets the Morgan Rielly contract (7.5x8), he'd be leaving $10 million on the table in years 3-5 vs. your proposed offer sheet.

If we're looking at Rielly here, Bouchard won't get a bridge like Rielly didn't get a bridge. I'm not sure how you justify a bridge here at less than 4 mil to a 7x8 in two or three years given the situation so I don't know how you can talk about what he'd be leaving on the table. If all Edmonton is going to offer Bouchard now after back-to-back 40 point seasons is a bridge at 3-3.5 mil that you're implying, what makes you think they're going to give him 7x8 after when they need to re-sign McDavid and Draisaitl? If he consistently does 40 point season would another team do 7x8 after trading assets to get him because he's on a bridge? I really doubt it. Bouchard and his agent shouldn't bank on Edmonton taking care of him at all. If they only want to offer a bridge, he should hold out to get a long term deal somewhere else whether that's through an offer sheet or a sign and trade. Plenty of teams will give him a lengthy deal that guarantees him more money over betting on himself over the span of two or three seasons where he can easily fall off because he isn't that good to begin with.

 

[Hodge]

If we're looking at Rielly here, Bouchard won't get a bridge like Rielly didn't get a bridge. I'm not sure how you justify a bridge here at less than 4 mil to a 7x8 in two or three years given the situation so I don't know how you can talk about what he'd be leaving on the table. If all Edmonton is going to offer Bouchard now after back-to-back 40 point seasons is a bridge at 3-3.5 mil that you're implying, what makes you think they're going to give him 7x8 after when they need to re-sign McDavid and Draisaitl? If he consistently does 40 point season would another team do 7x8 after trading assets to get him because he's on a bridge? I really doubt it. Bouchard and his agent shouldn't bank on Edmonton taking care of him at all. If they only want to offer a bridge, he should hold out to get a long term deal somewhere else whether that's through an offer sheet or a sign and trade. Plenty of teams will give him a lengthy deal that guarantees him more money over betting on himself over the span of two or three seasons where he can easily fall off because he isn't that good to begin with.

We'll see what happens but I'll be very surprised if they don't grind out a 2-year contract even if it takes until training camp. If Edmonton doesn't want to sign him long term after that he can take them to arbitration and get on the fast track to UFA. Hard to imagine him scoring less than 60 points the next two seasons if he stays healthy. Barrie is gone so all the PP1 minutes and high leverage offensive situations with McDavid & Draisaitl will go to Bouchard. Also if the cap is $90 million then 7-8 becomes closer to second pair money than #1 defenseman money.