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Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

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I would swap Karlsson and Hertl for #5 and cap dumps in an absolute heartbeat. That would allow the Sharks to come out of the draft with Michkov and one of Smith and Carlsson, basically accelerating the Sharks’ rebuild by a year.

Do not take that proposal to the Habs board, they’ll laugh until they can’t breathe because it would never happen in real life.
 
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Juxtaposer said:
I would swap Karlsson and Hertl for #5 and cap dumps in an absolute heartbeat. That would allow the Sharks to come out of the draft with Michkov and one of Smith and Carlsson, basically accelerating the Sharks’ rebuild by a year.

Do not take that proposal to the Habs board, they’ll laugh until they can’t breathe because it would never happen in real life.
Click to expand...
Well-said. If I am a contending team, I don't trade Karlsson for those two picks straight-up. But given the Sharks's window that would be a great trade for them.
 
mogambomoroo said:
One Montreal fan had this idea of a trade in CapFriendly, what do you guys think?

MTL:
  1. Hertl, Tomas
  2. Karlsson, Erik
Additional Details:
It's a huge step back for SJ, but in 4 years they will have one of the best young teams in the league and for a whole lot of years

SJS:

​

  1. Armia, Joel
  2. Edmundson, Joel
  3. Gallagher, Brendan
  4. Kidney, Riley
  5. 2023 1st round pick (FLA)
  6. 2023 1st round pick (MTL)
Additional Details:
The traded roster players are all about cap relief
5 OA
29-32 OA

It sounded amazing at first because we get #4 and #5 and we don't have to retain any salary from EK65 and Hertl. Not the most realistic since they are not competing in a while, but I thought it was great in a future standpoint. But I had a counter offer that could keep us Tomas Hertl, since he is probably the veteran that is there for the kids when they come up.

My offer:

MTL:
EK65 and Logan Couture
-
SJS:
Armia, Edmundson, Gallagher, Kidney and MTL 1st round (#5 pick)
(I took out the Florida pick)
Click to expand...
That's a no-brainer for me. Sharks end up with #4, #5, and two low firsts (Florida and NJ) in an excellent draft. Sounds really damn good...take Smith and Michkov + some high-upside picks with the late 1sts. And then the Sharks are set up to keep tanking the next 2-3 years while Smith and Michkov develop. Eklund, Smith, Michkov, Celebrini, a couple top-3 picks in 2025 and 2026, and maybe 1-2 late 1sts hitting sounds like a great nucleus to me.

Financially, getting two huge contracts are off the books in Karlsson and Hertl is great. Edmundson has 2 years left, and Armia has 3 years left, so those two contracts don't matter since the Sharks will be rebuilding anyway. Gallagher has five years left, but he'll basically be the only bad contract on the books in 3 years other than Couture who will have 1 year left at 7M.

Regardless though, Montreal would never do this even though Slaf-Hertl and Suzuki-Caufield in the top-6 with Karlsson would be fun to watch. Nice to dream though haha
 
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DG93 said:
That's a no-brainer for me. S
Click to expand...

Agreed. You'd have to take that.

Picking at no.4, 5, 25/26, 29/30 this year alone would revolutionise the franchise. That could feasibly be Smith, Michkov, Simashev and Stenberg. Clearing $20m of cap commitments would allow you to weoponise the new cap space for more assets too.

Mouth-watering. It's why Montreal also wouldn't do it.
 
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Le Rosbeef said:
Agreed. You'd have to take that.

Picking at no.4, 5, 25/26, 29/30 this year alone would revolutionise the franchise. That could feasibly be Smith, Michkov, Simashev and Stenberg. Clearing $20m of cap commitments would allow you to weoponise the new cap space for more assets too.

Mouth-watering. It's why Montreal also wouldn't do it.
Click to expand...
It's hard to imagine any deal that Montreal put out there that the Sharks wouldn't take where they're getting number 5 and not giving number 4 or Eklund. But I have a hard time envisioning the Habs proposing this in reality.
 
In 2005(!) at the State of the Sharks, the five criteria for player selection was mentioned.

Character, hockey sense, love to play the game ("rink rats"), accept responsibility to make the players around you a better team, perform best when it matters the most.
Click to expand...

I think that some of the personnel issues of the past few seasons (e.g., Kane) have been related to a failure to fully ensure these principles have been followed when acquiring players.

With a change of regime, I have not heard if these criteria are still in use, or if there is a different/updated set of criteria.
 
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i'm 100% "the culture one" at work (much like i am here obv)

but I've never been at a company where the pillars/values are consciously applied outside of "ok i guess it's time to make my quarterly perf goalz and I have to pick something from this dropdown"

i do feel like they've mentione the "perform best when it matters the most" thing multiple times before though... like someone will have a v good stats in some tournament and they'll be like "oh ja there were a lot of good players we considered but that's when we knew they were the one"
 
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LadyStanley said:
In 2005(!) at the State of the Sharks, the five criteria for player selection was mentioned.



I think that some of the personnel issues of the past few seasons (e.g., Kane) have been related to a failure to fully ensure these principles have been followed when acquiring players.

With a change of regime, I have not heard if these criteria are still in use, or if there is a different/updated set of criteria.
Click to expand...
We could probably scour the internet for quotes from MG that lend a sense of his own criteria. From the things Ive heard from him recently, it’s guys that work hard, play hard night in and night out. Guys who love the game and dedicate themselves to the structure of the coaching staff.
 
LadyStanley said:
In 2005(!) at the State of the Sharks, the five criteria for player selection was mentioned.



I think that some of the personnel issues of the past few seasons (e.g., Kane) have been related to a failure to fully ensure these principles have been followed when acquiring players.

With a change of regime, I have not heard if these criteria are still in use, or if there is a different/updated set of criteria.
Click to expand...
Could you please ask MG the next time you see him?

sharski said:
i'm 100% "the culture one" at work (much like i am here obv)

but I've never been at a company where the pillars/values are consciously applied outside of "ok i guess it's time to make my quarterly perf goalz and I have to pick something from this dropdown"

i do feel like they've mentione the "perform best when it matters the most" thing multiple times before though... like someone will have a v good stats in some tournament and they'll be like "oh ja there were a lot of good players we considered but that's when we knew they were the one"
Click to expand...
I ram core values down people's throats at least a couple times a week. Execs love it, unless it's their throat I'm coming for.
 
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LadyStanley said:
In 2005(!) at the State of the Sharks, the five criteria for player selection was mentioned.

Character, hockey sense, love to play the game ("rink rats"), accept responsibility to make the players around you a better team, perform best when it matters the most.

I think that some of the personnel issues of the past few seasons (e.g., Kane) have been related to a failure to fully ensure these principles have been followed when acquiring players.

With a change of regime, I have not heard if these criteria are still in use, or if there is a different/updated set of criteria.
Click to expand...
I don't think any of these were a problem with Kane. They sure have been for other players that I rarely see mentioned however.
 
Pavelski2112 said:
This is some hardcore revisionism. Kane was a guy who just absolutely disappeared in the playoffs except in 2018 against Vegas where he was just a straight-up liability because Reaves lived in his head rent-free.
Click to expand...
Again, so did a lot of players. I never said Kane was a playoff dynamo, I meant that when it comes to Sharks playoff failures, I do not understand how Evander Kane is one of the top 10 names that comes up. They would've been stomped in 5 or 6 that year against Vegas if they didn't have anyone to push back. You can hate him unjustly, that's completely fine, but make sure to put it on the players who actually deserve it for the poor on ice performance too.
 
So I wouldn’t dare post this to the main boards with the wound being so fresh, but as someone who watched the Sharks go through the same old song and dance for too many years to count, I wonder if they should trade 1 of the big 2 (not big 4, big 2) to shake things up before its too late.

I’m curious what other Sharks fans think about this...
Put it another way, with hindsight, do you wish we traded one of Jumbo/Patty after, say, the loss to Anaheim in 09?

I love both those guys (check my avatar!), but I wonder if making a hard sacrifice like that could have changed the culture of the team to where we avoid the whole "coworkers" thing a few years later.

For me, if I'm Grier, I'm calling whoever is left in charge in Toronto and telling them that if they're ready to make a big move, I'm ready to send them 4OA + Couture @50% + Thrun for Matthews. You can laugh, but I doubt Boston regrets trading Jumbo... (and IMO this is a way better deal than Boston got)

In the unlikely chance they take me up on it, my next call is to Jumbo to convince him to come on board as an assistant coach with the singular mission of imparting what he learned about the importance of winning to Matthews (and the rest). Who knows, maybe it could be redemptive in a way for Jumbo to help coach a younger, struggling star to get his old beloved team over the top. One can dream :)

Edit: Updated JT references to Jumbo for clarity, given all the Leafs talk.
 
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Sharksfan66 said:
So I wouldn’t dare post this to the main boards with the wound being so fresh, but as someone who watched the Sharks go through the same old song and dance for too many years to count, I wonder if they should trade 1 of the big 2 (not big 4, big 2) to shake things up before its too late.

I’m curious what other Sharks fans think about this...
Put it another way, with hindsight, do you wish we traded one of Jumbo/Patty after, say, the loss to Anaheim in 09?

I love both those guys (check my avatar!), but I wonder if making a hard sacrifice like that could have changed the culture of the team to where we avoid the whole "coworkers" thing a few years later.

For me, if I'm Grier, I'm calling whoever is left in charge in Toronto and telling them that if they're ready to make a big move, I'm ready to send them 4OA + Couture @50% + Thrun for Matthews. You can laugh, but I doubt Boston regrets trading Jumbo... (and IMO this is a way better deal than Boston got)

In the unlikely chance they take me up on it, my next call is to Jumbo to convince him to come on board as an assistant coach with the singular mission of imparting what he learned about the importance of winning to Matthews (and the rest). Who knows, maybe it could be redemptive in a way for Jumbo to help coach a younger, struggling star to get his old beloved team over the top. One can dream :)

Edit: Updated JT references to Jumbo for clarity, given all the Leafs talk.
Click to expand...
Who are the big 2? Lol
 
Sharksfan66 said:
So I wouldn’t dare post this to the main boards with the wound being so fresh, but as someone who watched the Sharks go through the same old song and dance for too many years to count, I wonder if they should trade 1 of the big 2 (not big 4, big 2) to shake things up before its too late.

I’m curious what other Sharks fans think about this...
Put it another way, with hindsight, do you wish we traded one of Jumbo/Patty after, say, the loss to Anaheim in 09?

I love both those guys (check my avatar!), but I wonder if making a hard sacrifice like that could have changed the culture of the team to where we avoid the whole "coworkers" thing a few years later.

For me, if I'm Grier, I'm calling whoever is left in charge in Toronto and telling them that if they're ready to make a big move, I'm ready to send them 4OA + Couture @50% + Thrun for Matthews. You can laugh, but I doubt Boston regrets trading Jumbo... (and IMO this is a way better deal than Boston got)

In the unlikely chance they take me up on it, my next call is to Jumbo to convince him to come on board as an assistant coach with the singular mission of imparting what he learned about the importance of winning to Matthews (and the rest). Who knows, maybe it could be redemptive in a way for Jumbo to help coach a younger, struggling star to get his old beloved team over the top. One can dream :)

Edit: Updated JT references to Jumbo for clarity, given all the Leafs talk.
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t trade 4OA for Matthews straight up.

He’s a great player, but with him being a UFA soon and the timeline of the team, he’d definitely walk in UFA and it would just set the rebuild back another 5 years.
 
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TheWayToRefJose said:
I wouldn’t trade 4OA for Matthews straight up.

He’s a great player, but with him being a UFA soon and the timeline of the team, he’d definitely walk in UFA and it would just set the rebuild back another 5 years.
Click to expand...
Would he definitely walk in UFA? After winning another Rocket with EK65 feeding him all year long and bringing the Sharks back to the playoffs? Guy would be hero even if we don't make it past the first round (which we prob wouldn't). And with Jumbo/Patty and their families around?

I know it'd be a big risk, but from the team perspective, this could be the Jumbo trade 2.0, instantly bringing us back to the days of 05/06 where we have a nice long window just opening up.

I think it's far more likely Toronto laughs Grier off the phone if he offers this, but to me, that's an inditement of the lack of imagination in hockey GMs these days. In addition to the culture reset (which I think is the main win), can you imagine what they could do with all that extra cap space? Go get Meier (who, despite the lack of results, I thought looked good for NJ), Dumba, etc. in FA to beef up your team and give it another go with Mr. "that's 1!" finishing all Marner's feeds. I think it could be a win-win, even if it's a big risk for both. But I also think it will never happen lol

Barrie22 said:
Oh i misunderstood the post haha, i thought it was about the sharks big 2 lol
Click to expand...
Oh haha. I wish we had a big 2 right now.

I guess back in the day, I would have thought about Jumbo/Patty as our big 2 until guys like Pavs/Couture came up and Boyle/Heatley came in.

But ya, I was thinking of Matthews & Marner when I said "big 2"
 
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