Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[mogambomoroo]

Islanders and Seattle both seem to be great destinations for Erik Karlsson, I would go even as far as wanting Vince Dunn (SEA) or Noah Dobson (NYI) being the main piece (+picks & cap dumps). That way we can have our own YOUNG defencemen that can lead the way for the new wave until Sharks hopefully draft their #1 defencemen one day. I would prefer Dobson, because he is a right shot, younger and could fit our new wave. Islanders have to take that risk if they want to compete, and Sharks have the advantage of Karlsson 100 point season.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

Islanders and Seattle both seem to be great destinations for Erik Karlsson, I would go even as far as wanting Vince Dunn (SEA) or Noah Dobson (NYI) being the main piece (+picks & cap dumps). That way we can have our own YOUNG defencemen that can lead the way for the new wave until Sharks hopefully draft their #1 defencemen one day. I would prefer Dobson, because he is a right shot, younger and could fit our new wave. Islanders have to take that risk if they want to compete, and Sharks have the advantage of Karlsson 100 point season.

I like your idea. I will say that Thrun, Knyzhov and Cicek aren’t bad options to begin the new wave of young progressive Dmen in San Jose.

 

[Grinner]

Has the door closed on a trade with the Oilers?

 

[Barrie22]

I like your idea. I will say that Thrun, Knyzhov and Cicek aren’t bad options to begin the new wave of young progressive Dmen in San Jose.

Pretty sure Muk is more of the new wave then cicek or knyzhov.

 

[mogambomoroo]

I like your idea. I will say that Thrun, Knyzhov and Cicek aren’t bad options to begin the new wave of young progressive Dmen in San Jose.

I think this was originally from @STL Shark post involving Dobson in the deal and I fell in love with that idea. It's so crucial to refresh the defence with young players that are hungry and have potential. Also drafting a Noah Dobson type is so hard, so why not use your EK65 to get that guy. He will have all the time in the world to become a very good player. Best case scenario, he can one day be our 2nd line RD and 2nd PP specialist which is a recipe for success.

EDIT: Yeah, I could totally see a bright future with #1RD (from some draft in future) Mukh, Thrun and Dobson. 3rd pair can be anything that sticks for now Knyzhov or Kniazev could solidify a 3rd LD spot though.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Has the door closed on a trade with the Oilers?

Probably. They traded for Ekholm who has 3 more years under contract after this. Combined with Nurse already having a big cap hit, and 97 and 29 needing new contracts in a few years it might not be worth it for them.

Look at the playoffs this year, offense is not their problem. They need other things then an offensive defenseman.

 

[Barrie22]

Probably. They traded for Ekholm who has 3 more years under contract after this. Combined with Nurse already having a big cap hit, and 97 and 29 needing new contracts in a few years it might not be worth it for them.

Look at the playoffs this year, offense is not their problem. They need other things then an offensive defenseman.

They need defensemen that can get the puck out of there own end quickly and efficiently. There are not many defensemen in the league better at that then Karlsson.

Best bet for Edmonton would be to trade Ekholm/nurse and bring in Karlsson.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

They need defensemen that can get the puck out of there own end quickly and efficiently. There are not many defensemen in the league better at that then Karlsson.

Best bet for Edmonton would be to trade Ekholm/nurse and bring in Karlsson.

All 3 of those guys have significant contracts. Trades involving all 3 would be far too complicated. If anything they need goaltending, which is another area they are committed to a long term bad contract.

Considering what they gave up for Ekholm, all their money tied up to big contracts, and the fact they are still going in the 2nd round of the playoffs, there isn't a fit for Karlsson right now.

Maybe a team like Seattle thinks they can add a big name in the offseason, but that all depends how these playoffs finish.

 

[STL Shark]

I think this was originally from @STL Shark post involving Dobson in the deal and I fell in love with that idea. It's so crucial to refresh the defence with young players that are hungry and have potential. Also drafting a Noah Dobson type is so hard, so why not use your EK65 to get that guy. He will have all the time in the world to become a very good player. Best case scenario, he can one day be our 2nd line RD and 2nd PP specialist which is a recipe for success.

EDIT: Yeah, I could totally see a bright future with #1RD (from some draft in future) Mukh, Thrun and Dobson. 3rd pair can be anything that sticks for now Knyzhov or Kniazev could solidify a 3rd LD spot though.

Yep. I would love Dobson or Bouchard to be the top asset coming back in a Karlsson trade. One of those plus a 2024 1st and then cap/roster balancing stuff with a 2nd round pick mixed in to account for all of that is the move in my opinion.

Probably. They traded for Ekholm who has 3 more years under contract after this. Combined with Nurse already having a big cap hit, and 97 and 29 needing new contracts in a few years it might not be worth it for them.

Look at the playoffs this year, offense is not their problem. They need other things then an offensive defenseman.

There is also the rumor out there that Bouchard isn't going to take a bridge contract and the number I've seen tossed around is a 5x5 deal. If you have Bouchard at $5M versus Karlsson at $8.5M, I am taking the Karlsson deal 10/10 times if I am in my contention window. Same for Dobson at $4M versus Karlsson at $8.5M. Give me Karlsson over both the next 2-3 years (which is all that EDM and NYI realistically have in them as their contention windows).

 

[Grinner]

Yep. I would love Dobson or Bouchard to be the top asset coming back in a Karlsson trade. One of those plus a 2024 1st and then cap/roster balancing stuff with a 2nd round pick mixed in to account for all of that is the move in my opinion.


There is also the rumor out there that Bouchard isn't going to take a bridge contract and the number I've seen tossed around is a 5x5 deal. If you have Bouchard at $5M versus Karlsson at $8.5M, I am taking the Karlsson deal 10/10 times if I am in my contention window. Same for Dobson at $4M versus Karlsson at $8.5M. Give me Karlsson over both the next 2-3 years (which is all that EDM and NYI realistically have in them as their contention windows).

Bouchard, Petrov and a 2024 1st

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

Bouchard, Petrov and a 2024 1st

That would be an insane overpay unless the Sharks are retaining 50% on Karlsson. If a trade happens it will be for half of that haul.

 

[Grinner]

That would be an insane overpay unless the Sharks are retaining 50% on Karlsson. If a trade happens it will be for half of that haul.

We can take back a contract or two
And or retain 20%
How insane? Like Crazy Eddie insane?

 

[STL Shark]

We can take back a contract or two
And or retain 20%
How insane? Like Crazy Eddie insane?

Was thinking we swap Benning and Ceci (same caliber player but Benning is $2M cheaper) and Gregor and Yamamoto to make cap hits work out. Could even throw a Lorentz and Foegele swap too for cap purposes. Bouchard, Ceci, Yamamoto, Foegele 2024 1st, and 2025 3rd for Karlsson ($3M), Benning, Lorentz and Gregor.

Cap wise, Bouchard would have to sign for less than $2.7M for Edmonton to come out ahead $ wise by not making the deal. I.e. factoring in a million for Gregor, the money is SJ sending $11.8M and taking back $9.1M before accounting for Bouchard. If he's unwilling to bridge like the internet is discussing, they'd be better off upgrading Bouchard to Karlsson and getting cheaper mostly equivalent depth parts while also saving money on the cap. Would only really be costing them a 1st and a 3rd while upgrading their top RHD.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Probably. They traded for Ekholm who has 3 more years under contract after this. Combined with Nurse already having a big cap hit, and 97 and 29 needing new contracts in a few years it might not be worth it for them.

Look at the playoffs this year, offense is not their problem. They need other things then an offensive defenseman.

Karlsson to Edmonton isn't shut all the way though the need for Karlsson from Edmonton's side is mitigated with Ekholm getting a good bit out of Bouchard. If they're willing to commit to Bouchard is likely when the door is finally shut. If they're balking at that contract ask, it wouldn't surprise me to have a Bouchard plus a 1st and a cap dump for Karlsson retained sort of deal.

 

[gaucholoco3]

If there is any team that would pay the premium for the sharks to retain 50% on EK it would be Edmonton.

EK (50%) for Bouchard, 24 1st, 25 2nd (becomes 1st if they go to the cup in the next 2 years), Yamamoto and/or Ceci

It is a lot for Edmonton to give up but giving up both Yamamoto and Ceci as cap dumps would free some cap space and would actually be players that would play significant roles for the Sharks.

Sign Bouchard to 8/5.75mil deal and one of the top 4 RD spots is set for the long term.

Adding Ceci also would give the Sharks arguably a better blue line than last season even without EK.

Thurn - Bouchard
Ferraro/Knyzhov - Ceci
Vlassic - Benning

 

[HughJazz3dg]

Hey guys!

Saw Shak had a great run with you guys to end the AHL season, really excited to see what he brings at the NHL level.

I also saw Wiesblatt had a decent run towards the end too, and I was just curious what your expectations are for him in the future? Loved his style of play in juniors, I’m hoping for great things.

Best of luck at the draft!

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If there is any team that would pay the premium for the sharks to retain 50% on EK it would be Edmonton.

EK (50%) for Bouchard, 24 1st, 25 2nd (becomes 1st if they go to the cup in the next 2 years), Yamamoto and/or Ceci

It is a lot for Edmonton to give up but giving up both Yamamoto and Ceci as cap dumps would free some cap space and would actually be players that would play significant roles for the Sharks.

Sign Bouchard to 8/5.75mil deal and one of the top 4 RD spots is set for the long term.

Adding Ceci also would give the Sharks arguably a better blue line than last season even without EK.

Thurn - Bouchard
Ferraro/Knyzhov - Ceci
Vlassic - Benning

I would want Bourgault to be involved if we're retaining 50%.

 

[Cas]

I also saw Wiesblatt had a decent run towards the end too, and I was just curious what your expectations are for him in the future? Loved his style of play in juniors, I’m hoping for great things.

Wiesblatt is pretty much going to top out as a bottom six pest, I think, and that's if he makes it (which is probably less likely than bust at this point).

 

[gaucholoco3]

I would want Bourgault to be involved if we're retaining 50%.

My bigger point is I think if there was a team that is set up to mortgage their future and overpay for EK at 50% it is Edmonton.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

My bigger point is I think if there was a team that is set up to mortgage their future and overpay for EK at 50% it is Edmonton.

If they're willing to pony up what's left of their future pool of assets that have value. They don't have much left.

 

[LadyStanley]

 

[mogambomoroo]

One Montreal fan had this idea of a trade in CapFriendly, what do you guys think?

MTL:

1. Hertl, Tomas
2. Karlsson, Erik

Additional Details:
It's a huge step back for SJ, but in 4 years they will have one of the best young teams in the league and for a whole lot of years

SJS:

​

1. Armia, Joel
2. Edmundson, Joel
3. Gallagher, Brendan
4. Kidney, Riley
5. 2023 1st round pick (FLA)
6. 2023 1st round pick (MTL)

Additional Details:
The traded roster players are all about cap relief
5 OA
29-32 OA

It sounded amazing at first because we get #4 and #5 and we don't have to retain any salary from EK65 and Hertl. Not the most realistic since they are not competing in a while, but I thought it was great in a future standpoint. But I had a counter offer that could keep us Tomas Hertl, since he is probably the veteran that is there for the kids when they come up.

My offer:

MTL:
EK65 and Logan Couture
-
SJS:
Armia, Edmundson, Gallagher, Kidney and MTL 1st round (#5 pick)
(I took out the Florida pick)

 

[Barrie22]

One Montreal fan had this idea of a trade in CapFriendly, what do you guys think?

MTL:

1. Hertl, Tomas
2. Karlsson, Erik

Additional Details:
It's a huge step back for SJ, but in 4 years they will have one of the best young teams in the league and for a whole lot of years

SJS:

​

1. Armia, Joel
2. Edmundson, Joel
3. Gallagher, Brendan
4. Kidney, Riley
5. 2023 1st round pick (FLA)
6. 2023 1st round pick (MTL)

Additional Details:
The traded roster players are all about cap relief
5 OA
29-32 OA

It sounded amazing at first because we get #4 and #5 and we don't have to retain any salary from EK65 and Hertl. Not the most realistic since they are not competing in a while, but I thought it was great in a future standpoint. But I had a counter offer that could keep us Tomas Hertl, since he is probably the veteran that is there for the kids when they come up.

My offer:

MTL:
EK65 and Logan Couture
-
SJS:
Armia, Edmundson, Gallagher, Kidney and MTL 1st round (#5 pick)
(I took out the Florida pick)

If we are trading, karlsson, hertl or couture together we need to be getting more then 1 1st round pick even if one of them are a top 5 pick. The only assets in those trades that are worth anything are kidney and the firsts. But kidney is not a top prospect by any means.

 

[Grinner]

One Montreal fan had this idea of a trade in CapFriendly, what do you guys think?

MTL:

1. Hertl, Tomas
2. Karlsson, Erik

Additional Details:
It's a huge step back for SJ, but in 4 years they will have one of the best young teams in the league and for a whole lot of years

SJS:

​

1. Armia, Joel
2. Edmundson, Joel
3. Gallagher, Brendan
4. Kidney, Riley
5. 2023 1st round pick (FLA)
6. 2023 1st round pick (MTL)

Additional Details:
The traded roster players are all about cap relief
5 OA
29-32 OA

It sounded amazing at first because we get #4 and #5 and we don't have to retain any salary from EK65 and Hertl. Not the most realistic since they are not competing in a while, but I thought it was great in a future standpoint. But I had a counter offer that could keep us Tomas Hertl, since he is probably the veteran that is there for the kids when they come up.

My offer:

MTL:
EK65 and Logan Couture
-
SJS:
Armia, Edmundson, Gallagher, Kidney and MTL 1st round (#5 pick)
(I took out the Florida pick)

The 1st one is brutal for the Shark
Is Gallagher going straight to the LTIR list?
Replace Kidney with Beck

 

[gaucholoco3]

Even though Hertl is young enough to still contribute when the Sharks are competitive again I take the first deal. All of the top 5 players could be considered #1 overall picks in most years. Giving away no futures to walk away with 2 of Carlsson, Michkov, and Smith would be incredible. In addition they would have 2 more late first round picks to add talented prospects.