2022/23 Roster Thread XII: The Twelfth Night, a comedy play

[BiggE]

They are one Carter Hart pulled muscle away from a 15+ game losing streak.

Basically,
If Hart stays healthy all year, they’re a 67-72 point team and guaranteed to pick in the top 7 or 8

If Hart misses 8-12 games with injuries, the point total drops to 63-68 and the pick at worst is 5th or 6th

If Hart misses 20 or more games, they won’t hit 60 points and will absolutely pick in the top 4.

Couts isn’t playing this year because even if he’s healthy by Spring, they’ll be so far out that they won’t dress him. Atkinson is either having surgery soon, or, when he tries to play without it, he’ll inevitably re-injure himself and wont be back til halfway through the 23-24 season. Ellis is dead.

This team is the laughingstock of the NHL and the entire hockey operation side of the organization should be fired immediately. If the Flyers aren’t the worst run organization in North American professional sports, they’re absolutely in the bottom 5. Honestly, if I’m Bedard, and the Flyers get the top pick, I’m demanding a trade unless the front office and coaching staff are purged.

SELL THE f***ING TEAM!!

 

[Flyerfan4life]

They are one Carter Hart pulled muscle away from a 15+ game losing streak.

Basically,
If Hart stays healthy all year, they’re a 67-72 point team and guaranteed to pick in the top 7 or 8

If Hart misses 8-12 games with injuries, the point total drops to 63-68 and the pick at worst is 5th or 6th

If Hart misses 20 or more games, they won’t hit 60 points and will absolutely pick in the top 4.

Couts isn’t playing this year because even if he’s healthy by Spring, they’ll be so far out that they won’t dress him. Atkinson is either having surgery soon, or, when he tries to play without it, he’ll inevitably re-injure himself and wont be back til halfway through the 23-24 season. Ellis is dead.

This team is the laughingstock of the NHL and the entire hockey operation side of the organization should be fired immediately. If the Flyers aren’t the worst run organization in North American professional sports, they’re absolutely in the bottom 5. Honestly, if I’m Bedard, and the Flyers get the top pick, I’m demanding a trade unless the front office and coaching staff are purged.

SELL THE f***ING TEAM!!

100% accuracy..

poor Bedard.. imagine playing your whole life to get to the NHL then end up drafted by this shit Org.

UGH

 

[deadhead]

"They should rebuild, they should have rebuilt years ago."

Tort's hired, they don't go after JG, gee, they're rebuilding.

"They suck, Torts is awful."

Whatever. if you want a rebuild, this is what it looks like. Teams don't dump all their veterans and play a lineup full of young players who aren't NHL ready. They take 3-4 years to clear out veterans and replace them with young talent, usually adding 3-4 players a year, and replacing half the lineup over the rebuild period (b/c some of the kids won't work out). Then when they build a young core, go to trades and free agency to fill out the roster when they're ready to compete.

So it really doesn't matter who plays this season, the real changes will come in late spring and the summer, first the TDL (JVR, Braun, maybe Sedlak), then springtime auditions, followed by summer time transactions. Rinse and repeat for two more seasons.

"Get Over It."

 

[pooch]

They may be rebuilding, but it's not on purpose. This is a terribly run and directionless team who can't decide if they are coming or going.

 

[Rebels57]

Since I am here, after being outscored 9-2 this weekend, I'd like to point out they are still 2nd in the NHL in goal differential above expected



edited since I cant read

This is awesome. We are gonna have a legit shot at Bedard.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Marginal guys don't waste cap space, you can bury up to $1.25M in the AHL and not have it count against your cap.
So sending a guaranteed contract to the AHL only costs Comcast money.

Even Deslauriers only costs $500K to bury down the road.

Only if you actually bury any of the overpaid bums. They never do. They do their utmost to play them over youth.

Deslauriers is never being buried as long as the Clarke Cronyarchy is running the team.

How did Torts win in TB and CBJ? It wasn't with high priced FAs or established veterans.

Draft picks outside the first round are overrated, anytime I can add a player in his 20s who's an above average starter with these kinds of picks, do so. Hextall's (6) 2nd rd picks have produced 1 starter (Hart), 1 marginal starter (Allison).

If the Flyers want to move pieces, it shouldn't be until next summer after Torts has a chance to evaluate his players.
None of the contracts given to their own players are out of line, thus those players are good trade bait.

Risto is the one horrid move, both the trade and extension.


Why is this a surprise? Without JVR, they're screwed on the PP for now. Laughton trying to play net front is painful to watch.

Tortorella didn't win in CBJ.

Tortorella also doesn't choose the players available to him. The General Manager does that. Tortorella is a coach. Coaches are subservient to General Managers. Fletcher is the GM.

How come goalies have their best seasons under Torts? Coincidence?

It's been 20 years, it's probably a coincidence that a whopping two goalies had good years under him. It stands to reason that it would have inevitably happened at least once or twice.

 

[landsbergfan]

This is awesome. We are gonna have a legit shot at Bedard.

Haha I dont think so. There are several other teams that are hot garbage

 

[Magua]

Their PP is exactly the same as it was. They still think you can only score from a one timer, which is why Tippett is playing the half wall.

Not that it matters at all, but I would go:

-------TD
Frost-------TK
------Farabee
------Hayes

They really don't have a ton of options, as this team is garbage on the PP.

That's something that has shown itself pretty clearly so far in the Torts tenure: lack of adjustments. Of course you can only do so much, but they only make the most minor of changes -- the same couple changes -- and keep ending back up where they start, with other stones left unturned.

As was mentioned on the last page, Torts historically has awful PPs. Spare me the talent excuse: from 2017-2019, he had Panarin, Dubois, Werenski, etc. And in that timespan, Columbus had the worst GF/60 and xGF/60 in the NHL on the PP -- that's results and process. That's almost mind boggling with a since top 10 PP producer in the NHL in Panarin. Dead last! Tortorella proudly admits he doesn't wade into the offensive parts of the game, so lack of adjustments make sense: he delegates those tasks to his (mediocre) assistants and doesn't really provide answers when they fail.

Hayes as net front actually could be interesting, less as a screen and more as a below goal line passer. They've made their bed with Frost's usage; I don't foresee them unmaking it with him as a PP1 player over Tippett. Hayes and Tippett on the walls is just painfully slow and lacking tempo. There's maybe 2 shooters in the league who can play PP1 solely because of their shot -- add on mediocre passing/decisions and goal underperforming and Tippett is not one. Meanwhile, we have Cates (probably necessity there), MacEwen, Provorov on PP2. On we go with the square peg, round hole.

 

[Beef Invictus]

"They should rebuild, they should have rebuilt years ago."

Tort's hired, they don't go after JG, gee, they're rebuilding.

"They suck, Torts is awful."

Whatever. if you want a rebuild, this is what it looks like. Teams don't dump all their veterans and play a lineup full of young players who aren't NHL ready. They take 3-4 years to clear out veterans and replace them with young talent, usually adding 3-4 players a year, and replacing half the lineup over the rebuild period (b/c some of the kids won't work out). Then when they build a young core, go to trades and free agency to fill out the roster when they're ready to compete.

So it really doesn't matter who plays this season, the real changes will come in late spring and the summer, first the TDL (JVR, Braun, maybe Sedlak), then springtime auditions, followed by summer time transactions. Rinse and repeat for two more seasons.

"Get Over It."

They are not rebuilding. They didn't go after JG not because they're rebuilding, but because Fletcher is too lazy and stupid to figure out clearing cap without taking a massive loss.

 

[freakydallas13]

The absolute comedy that is insisting this team started rebuilding this summer, because it infers that last year they were trying to compete.

Do competing teams usually finish bottom 5 in the leauge? Charles couldn't see last year this team was destined to be terrible this year, so he paid a ton of assets to give ghost away, bring in (and then resign Risto), and sign his injury prone 1C to an 8 year contract that starts at age 30? Are you telling me this genius hockey mind didn't have the foresight to see 12 months into this team's future and not make these god awful moves for the rebuild that every idiot on this board saw coming!?

Give me a f***ing break. This team would have been better off with no GM than it would have with Chuck's moves.

 

[deadhead]

Of course they're rebuilding, Torts made that clear the minute he got the job, and I doubt he told them any different in the interviews.
With Ellis out, G gone, Couts coming off back surgery, they knew they weren't making the playoffs.
Now while Hart's play is a surprise, Couts' relapse and Atkinson and JVR going down just confirms that they have no chance.

As I've shown, just because a team has started a rebuild, that doesn't mean they waive every veteran and play a bunch of inexperienced kids together and let them pull each other down. Rebuilding teams move out veterans over a 2-3 year period, working in prospects as they're deemed ready.

 

[deadhead]

The absolute comedy that is insisting this team started rebuilding this summer, because it infers that last year they were trying to compete.

Do competing teams usually finish bottom 5 in the leauge? Charles couldn't see last year this team was destined to be terrible this year, so he paid a ton of assets to give ghost away, bring in (and then resign Risto), and sign his injury prone 1C to an 8 year contract that starts at age 30? Are you telling me this genius hockey mind didn't have the foresight to see 12 months into this team's future and not make these god awful moves for the rebuild that every idiot on this board saw coming!?

Give me a f***ing break. This team would have been better off with no GM than it would have with Chuck's moves.

You'll find a lot of teams in this situation if you look around, the hardest decision for a franchise is to decide the party's over, just ask Howie.
Ellis has no history of core injuries, Couts signed a team friendly deal, Atkinson had no issues - you got a crystal ball?

They were 14th in xGF% in 2020-21 at 50.57%, with average or better goal tending it was easy to see them as a playoff team, and if Hart recovered his 2019-20 mojo, a top 8 team.

Then crap happened.

 

[freakydallas13]

You'll find a lot of teams in this situation if you look around, the hardest decision for a franchise is to decide the party's over, just ask Howie.
Ellis has no history of core injuries, Couts signed a team friendly deal, Atkinson had no issues - you got a crystal ball?

They were 14th in xGF% in 2020-21 at 50.57%, with average or better goal tending it was easy to see them as a playoff team, and if Hart recovered his 2019-20 mojo, a top 8 team.

Then crap happened.

Which competing teams end up a bottom 5 team in the standings?

And congrats, this team was middle of the pack for xGF 2 years ago. How did that work out? Also, why are you using 20/21 numbers, what was the team's xGF in the year I was talking about, 21/22?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Keep carrying water for Chuck despite saying that you don’t.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Which competing teams end up a bottom 5 team in the standings?

And congrats, this team was middle of the pack for xGF 2 years ago. How did that work out? Also, why are you using 20/21 numbers, what was the team's xGF in the year I was talking about, 21/22?

The same reason that 19/20 was talked about for years right up until it wasn’t.

 

[deadhead]

Which competing teams end up a bottom 5 team in the standings?

And congrats, this team was middle of the pack for xGF 2 years ago. How did that work out? Also, why are you using 20/21 numbers, what was the team's xGF in the year I was talking about, 21/22?

That's why they sold at the TDL.
If they thought they were going to be competitive this year, they could have easily extended G for three years.
Now why they extended Risto, well, people do stupid things.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

That's why they sold at the TDL.
If they thought they were going to be competitive this year, they could have easily extended G for three years.
Now why they extended Risto, well, people do stupid things.

Yeah, please everyone pay no attention to the most important part that shows that they’re not rebuilding and focus on all of the other things like trading Brassard and Braun.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Oh Sam, bless your heart.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

So when does Schmuckles trade Konecny? Because we know that idiot is chomping at the bit to move him.....

 

[VladDrag]

That's something that has shown itself pretty clearly so far in the Torts tenure: lack of adjustments. Of course you can only do so much, but they only make the most minor of changes -- the same couple changes -- and keep ending back up where they start, with other stones left unturned.

As was mentioned on the last page, Torts historically has awful PPs. Spare me the talent excuse: from 2017-2019, he had Panarin, Dubois, Werenski, etc. And in that timespan, Columbus had the worst GF/60 and xGF/60 in the NHL on the PP -- that's results and process. That's almost mind boggling with a since top 10 PP producer in the NHL in Panarin. Dead last! Tortorella proudly admits he doesn't wade into the offensive parts of the game, so lack of adjustments make sense: he delegates those tasks to his (mediocre) assistants and doesn't really provide answers when they fail.

Hayes as net front actually could be interesting, less as a screen and more as a below goal line passer. They've made their bed with Frost's usage; I don't foresee them unmaking it with him as a PP1 player over Tippett. Hayes and Tippett on the walls is just painfully slow and lacking tempo. There's maybe 2 shooters in the league who can play PP1 solely because of their shot -- add on mediocre passing/decisions and goal underperforming and Tippett is not one. Meanwhile, we have Cates (probably necessity there), MacEwen, Provorov on PP2. On we go with the square peg, round hole.

Yes. My thought was having Hayes as a behind the net passer. I am so over the long shots from the point. They just don’t translate to enough goals. It’s been the primary attempt of scoring for this team for the last two seasons and we know how that has gone.

 

[captainpaxil]

The issue with slow roasting prospects is yeah they develop properly in the long term but you aren't able to maximize value on the elc and first rfa deal. That's where competitive teams get the most out of players.

 

[wasup]

I'm late to the party {been a busy day } but I see that Laczynski been sent down and Max has been recalled . So 2 goals and 2 assists in 11 games with the Phantoms so far this year and 2 goals and 4 assists in 41 games as a Flyer and 19 points in 34 games with LV last year . He is 3 months away from being 28 years old . Have I missed anything ? Am I missing something ?

Laczynski plays center and wing , Willman plays wing only .Laczynski is actually good at taking faceoffs , Willman plays wing only .

Where in the F#$%ck does this make any scents ? Patrick Brown goes to LV for conditioning stint and will be shortly coming up then they could send Laczynski down cause Brown can at least take faceoffs . Can't do anything else but at least I could see a little logic to it .

Nobody on here can tell me that Bellows is not our worst forward and we should be trying to dump him down and maybe have someone else claim him before everyone realizes how shitty he is and get his 1.2 mil contract the F#$ck out of here .

 

[Striiker]

They are not rebuilding. They didn't go after JG not because they're rebuilding, but because Fletcher is too lazy and stupid to figure out clearing cap without taking a massive loss.

And because they don’t care about scoring, other than braindead snipers. JG isn’t his type.

They think this team is better and more likely to contend without him.

They aren’t rebuilding. They’re just that incompetent.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

"They should rebuild, they should have rebuilt years ago."

Tort's hired, they don't go after JG, gee, they're rebuilding.

"They suck, Torts is awful."

Whatever. if you want a rebuild, this is what it looks like. Teams don't dump all their veterans and play a lineup full of young players who aren't NHL ready. They take 3-4 years to clear out veterans and replace them with young talent, usually adding 3-4 players a year, and replacing half the lineup over the rebuild period (b/c some of the kids won't work out). Then when they build a young core, go to trades and free agency to fill out the roster when they're ready to compete.

So it really doesn't matter who plays this season, the real changes will come in late spring and the summer, first the TDL (JVR, Braun, maybe Sedlak), then springtime auditions, followed by summer time transactions. Rinse and repeat for two more seasons.

"Get Over It."

The only thing the fans here want is to complain.

“Aggressive retool is idiocy! They need to blow for Bedard!”

“How could they not sign Gaudreau for 7 years & $10M?!”

“No free agent wants to sign or extend in this awful organization!”

“DeBrincat was on the market! They should’ve traded 5th overall & the Florida 2024 1st for him! They could have extended him!”

They want them to tank & acquire picks. Then get mad when they don’t spend picks & tie up major cap to get a 30 y/o Gaudreau for 7 yrs.

They want them to lose, & then get mad when they lose. They get mad when they win.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

The only thing the fans here want is to complain.

“Aggressive retool is idiocy! They need to blow for Bedard!”

“How could they not sign Gaudreau for 7 years & $10M?!”

“No free agent wants to sign or extend in this awful organization!”

“DeBrincat was on the market! They should’ve traded 5th overall & the Florida 2024 1st for him! They could have extended him!”

They want them to tank & acquire picks. Then get mad when they don’t spend picks & tie up major cap to get a 30 y/o Gaudreau for 7 yrs.

They want them to lose, & then get mad when they lose. They get mad when they win.

You’re doing that thing again.