2022/23 Roster Thread XI: Konecny, So Hot Right Now, Konecny

[Beef Invictus]

LOL

I was told that Tortorella would never think of doing anything like this

 

[ajgoal]

 

[Beef Invictus]

Well, Holmgren would be first in line, with that deal with AMac, which was much worse as a % of the cap!

I'm still curious about that move, a week before Fletcher offers a million less and a year less, and is talking about trading Risto at the deadline - was this his idea or did the FO make Risto a priority because he's a "Flyer player?" Was Scott still fixated on competing in 2022-23 and decided Risto was necessary?

It was his idea. The second Risto turned in an average game against Washington he overpaid him. He leaped at the first flimsy opportunity Risto gave him. Fletcher openly admitted to wanting Risto for years. Scott had nothing to do with it. Fletcher makes these decisions. Scott doesn't have a clue about anything. Every press conference he gives confirms that. He exists to say yes and sign checks.

Instead of weaving elaborate conspiracy theories where you read meaning into words out of the blue, you should try embracing a far simpler truth: Fletcher has always been a poor GM with absolutely no capacity for planning the future, and as a poor GM with no capacity for planning the future he is prone to making poor moves without regard for the future.

Risto is worse than Amac due to the eye-watering cost of acquisition.

 

[Chinatown88]

Nice f***ing roster Chuckles.

 

[Curufinwe]

Well, Holmgren would be first in line, with that deal with AMac, which was much worse as a % of the cap!

I'm still curious about that move, a week before Fletcher offers a million less and a year less, and is talking about trading Risto at the deadline - was this his idea or did the FO make Risto a priority because he's a "Flyer player?" Was Scott still fixated on competing in 2022-23 and decided Risto was necessary?

Fletcher is the FO. Also the guy who traded two high value picks for Risto, and thought he would look stupid trading him for a late 2nd nine months later.

Dave Scott doesn't have a clue about individual players.

 

[deadhead]

Yeah, Tort deliberately hurt Couts' back, hit Atkinson with a baseball bat, and conspired to have a puck bruise (we hope) JVR's hand.

The only credible alternative in LHV is Lycksell, and he didn't look ready. You're that eager to see Hodgson or Willman back?
Desnoyer's is off to a hot start, but I don't see a need to rush a 20 year old who missed a bunch of games the last two seasons.

Fletcher is the FO. Also the guy who traded two high value picks for Risto, and thought he would look stupid trading him for a late 2nd nine months later.

Dave Scott doesn't have a clue about individual players.

You don't know and I don't know. As usual, eventually the story will come out.

The timing was weird, if they had decided to rebuild at that point, Risto should have been traded, if they were still on the "compete in 2022-23 mantra", we know that was Scott's stated preference (encouraged by which senior advisors?).

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah, Tort deliberately hurt Couts' back, hit Atkinson with a baseball bat, and conspired to have a puck bruise (we hope) JVR's hand.

The only credible alternative in LHV is Lycksell, and he didn't look ready. You're that eager to see Hodgson or Willman back?
Desnoyer's is off to a hot start, but I don't see a need to rush a 20 year old who missed a bunch of games the last two seasons.

Considering these problems, Tortorella probably shouldn't make them worse by playing terrible players more than he should at the expense of better players.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Dave Scott doesn't have a clue about individual players.

The Mayhew pump was legendary.

 

[Curufinwe]

The timing was weird, if they had decided to rebuild at that point, Risto should have been traded, if they were still on the "compete in 2022-23 mantra", we know that was Scott's stated preference (encouraged by which senior advisors?).

It's not weird at all. Ristolainen had leverage over Fletcher because contenders weren't going to give the Flyers a 1st and a 2nd for him at the deadline, so Fletcher caved and gave Risto more money + term.

 

[deadhead]

Considering these problems, Tortorella probably shouldn't make them worse by playing terrible players more than he should at the expense of better players.

I thought we were rebuilding? In which case Torts should do what's best for the team in the long-run.
If that mean sheltering less experienced players to start the season, well . . .

Right now Deslauriers and Sedlak have been pretty solid, MacEwen not so much, but look who got demoted.
Laczynski at LW is probably something they'd want to see before committing real minutes to him in that role.

With JVR out for months (this team can't buy a break, hopefully he's back well before the TDL), it's just a matter of time before Lycksell gets recalled, the alternatives at LW? J Cates, Ratcliffe? Desnoyers? Willman?

It's not weird at all. Ristolainen had leverage over Fletcher because contenders weren't going to give the Flyers a 1st and a 2nd for him at the deadline, so Fletcher caved and gave Risto more money + term.

Risto would have gotten at least a 1st, I mean look at what other physical D-men got at the TDL.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

Torts has a coherent plan, same one he had in CBJ.
He's going to teach these guys to "play the right way" and get rid of the ones who can't.
He has no illusions about a player like MacEwen, but right the team is talent deficient, especially with all the injuries to start the season. So he has to play guys like that.
He can't fix that in the short-run, but he can establish a work ethic and demand they bring it every night.

The idea that if a player has talent and scores, you shouldn't demand that he play defense and skate hard every shift is why this team has been inconsistent for a decade - your best players set the tone for the team - if they go all out, both training and on the ice, and play a two way game - the rest of the team will follow suit.

Yes, he benches TK for a period, but also put TK on the PK, showing confidence that TK can be more than just a sniper.
He's demanding that TK be more than a good player who slides through a 50 point season, he wants to make him into a great player who's a keystone of a contending team.

Torts lost all credibility for me when he decided playing Nicky d and mac over 15 mins

 

[Curufinwe]

Risto would have gotten at least a 1st, I mean look at what other physical D-men got at the TDL.

Risto has zero playoff experience, and a career full of poor defensive results.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I thought we were rebuilding? In which case Torts should do what's best for the team in the long-run.
If that mean sheltering less experienced players to start the season, well . . .

Right now Deslauriers and Sedlak have been pretty solid, MacEwen not so much, but look who got demoted.
Laczynski at LW is probably something they'd want to see before committing real minutes to him in that role.

With JVR out for months (this team can't buy a break, hopefully he's back well before the TDL), it's just a matter of time before Lycksell gets recalled, the alternatives at LW? J Cates, Ratcliffe? Desnoyers? Willman?


Risto would have gotten at least a 1st, I mean look at what other physical D-men got at the TDL.

I was told building a new culture was part of the rebuild. How is punting a game to give more time to awful players doing any but building a losing culture?

Hayes and TK are far more experienced than the poor slobs he favors.

Also, there's no way Fletcher gets a first for Risto. Have you not seen his trades?

 

[flyersnorth]

With JVR out for months

What?! Seriously?

 

[deadhead]

Also, there's no way Fletcher gets a first for Risto. Have you not seen his trades?

Yes, he gets market value, not much for bargains, but doesn't overpay.

Got a 3rd for Braun, 4th for Brassard

2nd and 3rd for Braun, who was a top 4 veteran D-man at the time, was certainly market rate

1st, 3rd and "B' prospect for G was market rate, G at 34 was not elite, 1.89 pp/60 scoring rate was 2nd line level. Nobody was giving an "A" prospect and a 1st for him.

Risto was getting a 1st and 2nd from someone, the market rate (whether deserved or not).

The problem isn't Fletcher overpaying, it's paying for the wrong players.

 

[ajgoal]

What?! Seriously?

Surgery. Not season ending but he's out for a bit.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yes, he gets market value, not much for bargains, but doesn't overpay.

Got a 3rd for Braun, 4th for Brassard

2nd and 3rd for Braun, who was a top 4 veteran D-man at the time, was certainly market rate

1st, 3rd and "B' prospect for G was market rate, G at 34 was not elite, 1.89 pp/60 scoring rate was 2nd line level. Nobody was giving an "A" prospect and a 1st for him.

Risto was getting a 1st and 2nd from someone, the market rate (whether deserved or not).

The problem isn't Fletcher overpaying, it's paying for the wrong players.

No, he gets below market value. Pretty much every time. He loses on all fronts, always. It's really remarkable that he doesn't even accidentally win occasionally.

The problem isn't just Fletcher getting the wrong players, it's that he also overpays for them. By the way, "he just gets the wrong players!" is not a good defense. It's actually about the most damning thing possible.

 

[BigToe]

LOL

#FreeFrost

 

[flyersnorth]

No, he gets below market value. Pretty much every time. He loses on all fronts, always. It's really remarkable that he doesn't even accidentally win occasionally.

The problem isn't just Fletcher getting the wrong players, it's that he also overpays for them. By the way, "he just gets the wrong players!" is not a good defense. It's actually about the most damning thing possible.

The one major transaction I think he got right was Ellis.

And even that one blew up in his face.

The Flyers probably got the worst outcome of the three teams. Patrick only has this year under contract and it's a small value. Myers is at least playing as a 6/7 getting 12 minutes a night in TB. Same with Glass, he's playing in the NHL at least.

Meanwhile Ellis is on the book for another five years with a career-threatening injury that really keeps the team in limbo.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

Toronto fans and media saying they don't have enough grit... they need more toughness.

I wonder if they'd have any interest in a slightly used Deslauriers?

Comes complete with a 4-year contract and an NTC. Master of staged fights. Equipment is dry at end of games so cut down on laundry.

Act now receive a free Finnish defenseman. Some assembly required.

sucks. JVR would be a good asset to part with at the deadline. Who knows if he’ll fetch anywhere near he would have with some retention for a playoff bound team (yes I’m aware of Cuck and co probably thinking they’d like to keep him for a playoff push where they end up 10-15 points out anyway.)

 

[Rebels57]

The one major transaction I think he got right was Ellis.

And even that one blew up in his face.

The Flyers probably got the worst outcome of the three teams. Patrick only has this year under contract and it's a small value. Myers is at least playing as a 6/7 getting 12 minutes a night in TB. Same with Glass, he's playing in the NHL at least.

Meanwhile Ellis is on the book for another five years with a career-threatening injury that really keeps the team in limbo.

He only got Ellis that cheap because Nashville knew he was going to break down soon. They didn't know what would cause it, but I truly think they knew it would be something.

As for Ellis, they can LTIR him every season so his contract isn't that much of an issue.

Risto's is a far bigger issue.

Absolutely perfect that Chuckles couldn't find a way to move JVR for the cap space needed to sign Gaudreau, and now just a few months later his deadline trade value may have just taken a big hit too. Classic Fletch!

 

[Fight4yourRight]

He only got Ellis that cheap because Nashville knew he was going to break down soon. They didn't know what would cause it, but I truly think they knew.

As for Ellis, they can LTIR him every season so his contract isn't that much of an issue.

Risto's is a far bigger issue.

Pretty much this. There’s some posters here who always jump on the Ellis question and scream that the specific diagnosis and issue could never have been known by the Flyers. They’re correct. But they’re missing the bigger issue. Nashville hedged their bets, knowing that based on Ellis’ injury history, age, size and style of play, he’d be more than likely to break down sooner than later. Throw in his contract- explains why his value was so low. Cuck was too stupid to see this.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Zing..

inB4 Chuck extended another 5 years...

"so many injuries"...i mean being a GM is hard guys....

 

[deadhead]

Pretty much this. There’s some posters here who always jump on the Ellis question and scream that the specific diagnosis and issue could never have been known by the Flyers. They’re correct. But they’re missing the bigger issue. Nashville hedged their bets, knowing that based on Ellis’ injury history, age, size and style of play, he’d be more than likely to break down sooner than later. Throw in his contract- explains why his value was so low. Cuck was too stupid to see this.

They knew Ellis would be dinged at times, but given the youth of the rest of the D-corp, a legitimate #1 D-man at low cost was too good to pass on - figuring when he started breaking down in 2-3 years the other D-men would be prepared to carry a heavier load.

Even if you're rebuilding, you want a couple anchor players, Ellis and Couts would be perfect in that role.
On the other hand, JVR and Hayes are luxury items for rebuilding teams.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Awesome JVR news.

Recommit to the tank. Can’t escape destiny.