2022/23 Roster Thread XI: Konecny, So Hot Right Now, Konecny

[Hextallent63]

I was a huge Ghost fan. So much so that I named my moniker after him.

Please go ahead & look at my posts about him pre-2018 playoffs vs. Pittsburgh.

I simply recognized & acknowledged his decline much earlier than most of his other fans, many of whom still cling to their hero worship.

hes been pretty awesome for the coyotes this season, and most of what i watched last season. in my humble opinion he and deangelo are pretty close. if TDA and gost play the whole season like they are now, im taking TDA, but its close. tony plays alot better down low in the defensive zone without posession or fighting for it. gost is a little better higher up against the other teams offensive transition into the zone.

 

[Flyer lurker]

hes been pretty awesome for the coyotes this season, and most of what i watched last season. in my humble opinion he and deangelo are pretty close. if TDA and gost play the whole season like they are now, im taking TDA, but its close. tony plays alot better down low in the defensive zone without posession or fighting for it. gost is a little better higher up against the other teams offensive transition into the zone.

The difference between Ghost and ADA is not
2 2's
3
4
7

And on a team that needs to rebuild badly that is a huge issue.

 

[Hextallent63]

The difference between Ghost and ADA is not
2 2's
3
4
7

And on a team that needs to rebuild badly that is a huge issue.

i hear you. it is what it is though with chuck.

 

[Striiker]

Keep in mind that TDA has had it way easier than Ghost during their careers.

Better teams, far better partners, far better usage.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Definitely. Both are an issue.

That's what I said in the offseason too. People think plugging TDA into that spot will give Provorov the same results as with Ghost just because both are small, skilled defensemen. Nope, that's not how this works and that's not why the Provorov-Ghost pair worked.

They worked because Ghost is great offensively, great in transition, competent defensively, and has proven to be able to drive play and carry partners, even with awful guy like Hagg, Manning, or the AHLers on the Coyotes.

TDA isn't able to do that and he's as unreliable defensively as people pretend Ghost is, so that pair was doomed from the start. The only way they were staying above water was if they were glued to Couturier, which obviously hasn't been an option.

It's easy to see how TDA can have Great Utility in the right situation. Because on plays where everyone is in place and he doesn't have to start thinking, he's good. The second a breakdown starts it's ugly. And from what we've seen the last few years, he will be having a lot of breakdowns to deal with. I have no idea what happened to Provorov but he is a long way from Slavin. It was easy to predict this too, but somehow the professionals can't identify this kind of thing?

Also absurd to have both him and Risto in about the same cap neighborhood. Risto is worth a million against the cap on his best days. TDA in transition alone can be worth his hit in the right situation. I'm not being convinced so far that the Flyers are the right situation or that they should have paid all those draft picks.

 

[Striiker]

It's easy to see how TDA can have Great Utility in the right situation. Because on plays where everyone is in place and he doesn't have to start thinking, he's good. The second a breakdown starts it's ugly. And from what we've seen the last few years, he will be having a lot of breakdowns to deal with. I have no idea what happened to Provorov but he is a long way from Slavin. It was easy to predict this too, but somehow the professionals can't identify this kind of thing?

Also absurd to have both him and Risto in about the same cap neighborhood. Risto is worth a million against the cap on his best days. TDA in transition alone can be worth his hit in the right situation. I'm not being convinced so far that the Flyers are the right situation or that they should have paid all those draft picks.

Yeah, the way Carolina used him is exactly how he needs to be used. The very skilled Robin to the right type of Batman. Doesn’t mean he’s a bad player at all, it’s just hilarious how he’s praised by the same people (both management and fans) who so badly misevaluated Ghost.

The fact that this team hates offense, won’t shut the f*** up about defense, but then pays a boatload for these two defensively incompetent defensemen is insane. Nothing they do makes sense.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

Frost haters in shambles...

1st in xGA/60 on the team at 5v5
2nd in xGF% on the team at 5v5
2nd in Points/60 on the team at all strengths

So he's clearly excelling offensively and defensively.

*Normally I'd never use something as stupid as a 3 game sample size, but since others have made it clear they value sample sizes as small as one or two games, I assume this is also something we should be taking seriously.

Now do Nicky or Zacy

 

[Kelmitchell2]

Can yall believe Nicky d and sanhiem both have the same amount of points? Does that make Nicky d good? Or does it make sanhiem trash

 

[Ironmanrulez]

im not going to lie, he is playing alot better in the defensive zone then i thought he could so far, small sample and all. hes using his body well, cutting off lanes and not playing too bad positionally. although he gets to be reaching every once in a while, not as much and provo though.


ice time though right? or is tht worked in there too?

You all saw Yandle and think that is the definition of bad defensively. But TDA is bad defensively and yandle isnt even playing hockey. He was more figure skating last season. So if we all forget about yandle bad defensively is Risto or TDA

 

[Striiker]

Remember when, to “fix the culture and get tougher”, Chuck threw this guy away so he could add Deslauriers?

 

[ybnvs]

Remember when, to “fix the culture and get tougher”, Chuck threw this guy away so he could add Deslauriers?

I was teetering on the edge of already having a bad case of the Mondays, but now I certainly f***ing do thanks to your reminder (which even without your reminder is a thought ever present) that Chuck Fletcher f***ing sucks.

Thanks buddy.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

Cuck Fletcher is a piece of f***ing shit. Never forget.

 

[Striiker]

I was teetering on the edge of already having a bad case of the Mondays, but now I certainly f***ing do thanks to your reminder (which even without your reminder is a thought ever present) that Chuck Fletcher f***ing sucks.

Thanks buddy.

My bad.

It just always blows my mind how often they contradict themselves.

Gotta trade Ghost... then add a worse version who costs more money
Gotta fix the locker room... then trade a beloved player and add a guy who's been at the center of problems in multiple rooms
Gotta get better defensively... then add three guys who are some of the worst defensive players in the league
Gotta hold players accountable... then praise and promote the worst players and demote guys who don't suck
Gotta develop the prospects... then hire a dinosaur coach who screams from the mountain tops that he hates youth and skill

 

[dragonoffrost]

That’s not too bad. I’ll allow it.

That's the worst!

 

[Adam Warlock]

TDA has looked good on the PP but hes already let more pucks by him at the blueline than Ghost did his entire career here.

Also whats up with Atkinson? Did they ever say what his injury is?

 

[Curufinwe]

UBI for Cam. Should be ready for the (2023) season opener.

 

[Curufinwe]

Already down 8 starters.

Atkinson
Brink
Brown
Couturier
Ellis
Ristolainen
Tippett
Van Reimsdyk

 

[Fight4yourRight]

My bad.

It just always blows my mind how often they contradict themselves.

Gotta trade Ghost... then add a worse version who costs more money
Gotta fix the locker room... then trade a beloved player and add a guy who's been at the center of problems in multiple rooms
Gotta get better defensively... then add three guys who are some of the worst defensive players in the league
Gotta hold players accountable... then praise and promote the worst players and demote guys who don't suck
Gotta develop the prospects... then hire a dinosaur coach who screams from the mountain tops that he hates youth and skill

Really, it comes down to that. And perhaps it explains why certain contrarians here still pathetically defend their decisions as their philosophies more or less align.

I think it’s safe to say that most of us here would willingly and happily watch games and follow the team again (even if they consistently bottomed out) if there was an actual coherent plan, to you know, make the team better. There is none of that. It’s literally day to day for these guys, always flying by the seat of their pants.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Remember when, to “fix the culture and get tougher”, Chuck threw this guy away so he could add Deslauriers?

Oh you mean the guy who purposefully lost the game by refusing to magically change momentum?

 

[deadhead]

Torts has a coherent plan, same one he had in CBJ.
He's going to teach these guys to "play the right way" and get rid of the ones who can't.
He has no illusions about a player like MacEwen, but right the team is talent deficient, especially with all the injuries to start the season. So he has to play guys like that.
He can't fix that in the short-run, but he can establish a work ethic and demand they bring it every night.

The idea that if a player has talent and scores, you shouldn't demand that he play defense and skate hard every shift is why this team has been inconsistent for a decade - your best players set the tone for the team - if they go all out, both training and on the ice, and play a two way game - the rest of the team will follow suit.

Yes, he benches TK for a period, but also put TK on the PK, showing confidence that TK can be more than just a sniper.
He's demanding that TK be more than a good player who slides through a 50 point season, he wants to make him into a great player who's a keystone of a contending team.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Torts has a coherent plan, same one he had in CBJ.
He's going to teach these guys to "play the right way" and get rid of the ones who can't.
He has no illusions about a player like MacEwen, but right the team is talent deficient, especially with all the injuries to start the season. So he has to play guys like that.
He can't fix that in the short-run, but he can establish a work ethic and demand they bring it every night.

The idea that if a player has talent and scores, you shouldn't demand that he play defense and skate hard every shift is why this team has been inconsistent for a decade - your best players set the tone for the team - if they go all out, both training and on the ice, and play a two way game - the rest of the team will follow suit.

Yes, he benches TK for a period, but also put TK on the PK, showing confidence that TK can be more than just a sniper.
He's demanding that TK be more than a good player who slides through a 50 point season, he wants to make him into a great player who's a keystone of a contending team.

He openly admitted that he doesn't care very much about drilling in schemes because he doesnt know how to communicate with players anymore.


Any reason he doesn't demand more from garbage players? How come they aren't benched in favor of players with actual potential upside, like you said would happen? How come the opposite is happening?

 

[Striiker]

Really, it comes down to that. And perhaps it explains why certain contrarians here still pathetically defend their decisions as their philosophies more or less align.

I think it’s safe to say that most of us here would willingly and happily watch games and follow the team again (even if they consistently bottomed out) if there was an actual coherent plan, to you know, make the team better. There is none of that. It’s literally day to day for these guys, always flying by the seat of their pants.

Exactly, like during the Hextall era.

The team sucked, but there was a clear plan and obvious progress. He made good trades, good draft picks, cleared out cap space, and things made sense. Doesn't mean he didn't make mistakes - of course he did - but the pros clearly outweighed the cons. We ended up with tons of assets, a great prospect pool, and tons of open cap space to make moves to win-now. It was just cut short so we'll always have to wonder "what if".

Fletcher has only cons, never any pros. That's why there's zero hope, enjoyment, or patience with him or his disgusting staff. Until he's gone, things will only continue to get worse. That's why losing is so important... it's the only way we'll be rid of this cancer.

 

[Striiker]

Oh you mean the guy who purposefully lost the game by refusing to magically change momentum?

Yeah, if we're supposed to believe that there's an undeniable tangible impact on the entire team when a player like Deslauriers or MacEwen fights, then any time that player doesn't fight it means literally he's not giving 100% and is intentionally robbing the team of something that would help them win.

So either a) fighting is worthless, or b) these fighters are selfish and won't actually do whatever it takes to help the team.

 

[deadhead]

We had a great prospect pool on paper, unfortunately by the time they got to the Flyers most of those prospects were suspects (i.e. it wasn't development that deep sixed Rubtsov, etc.).

He didn't clean up a lot of cap room, G, Voracek, Ghost and then JVR pretty much ate the cap.

Hextall never truly committed to rebuilding, he traded Kimmo at the end of his career, Coburn rather than resign him, the other moves were minor (McGinn, Rinaldo, Cousins) or treading water (Streit for Fippula). The major rebuilding move was the Schenn trade, then he took that money and signed JVR, a 29 year old forward to go with 29 year old Voracek, 30 year old Simmonds and 31 year old G. When you make a move like that, you're committing to winning now.

The organization has been schizophrenic for a decade, I think this is the first year where a HC/GM has been honest about not competing. It matters, because when you publicly admit that you're rebuilding, you can take long-term moves without worrying about blow back from the fans and media (or the FO).

 

[flyersnorth]

The organization has been schizophrenic for a decade, I think this is the first year where a HC/GM has been honest about not competing. It matters, because when you publicly admit that you're rebuilding, you can take long-term moves without worrying about blow back from the fans and media (or the FO).

Where did Fletch publicly admit that the Flyers are rebuilding? I have only heard an explicit denial of a rebuild ("it's a retool, Charlie"), and then eventually, a "stabilizing" year.

That sounds more like a man who ran out of options and misplayed his cards rather than a deliberate and decisive rebuild.

I know that what we're looking at in reality is a rebuild - largely due to injuries to key players - but that seems to be more by accident than by design.

I'll take a rebuild no matter how it happens because the whole hockey world can plainly see this is a bottom 10 roster with a thin pipeline.