Rumor: 2022-2022 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Part 14: Sakic goes back to bed

[GirardSpinorama]

I think the most likely scenario is one of Girard or Byram gets traded in the next two years, and probably one of Lehkonen or Nichushkin as well.



It might hurt the top of the lineup a little, but would help keep the quality of the depth in tact sort of thing. Without losing any of Landy/Mack/Mikko/Cale/Toews who are IMO by far the most important guys on the team. Though I am tempted to include Nuke in that group at this point as well.

I think we have no actual difficult decisions until Toews contract expires. He is almost just as underpaid as MacK right now. I think Girard being traded for prospects and cheap depth will pay for Toews contract. Byram is RFA so I'm not worried. Mack's contract is already paid for by EJ and JTC's contracts. Losing Kadri and Bura pays for Nuke, Lehkonen and another top 6 forward.

 

[Avaholic29]

That team is already competitive and a cup contender.

Pierce and bad pessimistic takes go hand in hand. I definitely agree that core is a contender easily.

 

[Foppa2118]

i know , but something like : Sakic made a one year offer and they refused , but that was the call that started some negociations between the two sides .

My guess is there wasn't much negotiation. Joe probably just threw a hail marry and it missed.

I'm also guessing this is Darcy's agent trying to put a little public pressure on Joe. Not to get a deal done now, but to take advantage of the timing after his best game of the season, and after he just did a 10 minute interview on the NHL Network.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

That team is already competitive and a cup contender.

Remember we've iced Mcdermaid for 50+ games and JJ for 50+ games. Not exactly high paid quality depth.

Right, now imagine we are icing 8 MacDermids/Johnsons, since that's the only way that roster stays below the salary cap.

 

[Avaholic29]

Right, now imagine we are icing 8 MacDermids/Johnsons, since that's the only way that roster stays below the salary cap.

It’s very possible to find bargain deals/vet contracts aswell as ELCs to fill that core out. A bottom 6 just needs to have a mixture of styles that suit a certain way of playing. Our pro scouts capitalize time and time again but yeah we are doomed despite having one of the best cores in the league lol terrible mindset to have.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It’s very possible to find bargain deals/vet contracts aswell as ELCs to fill that core out. A bottom 6 just needs to have a mixture of styles that suit a certain way of playing. Our pro scouts capitalize time and time again but yeah we are doomed despite having one of the best cores in the league lol.

Just wait and see.


People shit on this team all year for terrible depth and it's only going to get worse from here

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Right, now imagine we are icing 8 MacDermids/Johnsons, since that's the only way that roster stays below the salary cap.

We're a contender with 8 of them.

Helms (1M), Coglianos (1M), NAK (1M), JJ (less than 1M), McDermaids (less than 1M), LOC (1M). Our depth is already cheap as can be. I'm not worried at all. Remember we're also getting rid of JTC and EJ, thats 9.5 mill off the books. We've had Murray on our cap for much of the season, thats 2M not utilized at all. We're about the best cap managed team in the league and we're not even using cheating LTIRs like Vegas.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Just wait and see.


People shit on this team all year for terrible depth and it's only going to get worse from here

I can't think of a single team with a better cap management and long term outlook than us. Carolina is the only team I think has good cap management.

 

[Avaholic29]

Just wait and see.


People shit on this team all year for terrible depth and it's only going to get worse from here

Yeah and somehow Joe managed to turn Jost into someone that fits the team better and is way cheaper… that’s what managers do, they manage. it’s not wait and see lol that core is ridiculous and all you need to do is fill the bottom 6 with certain style of players. Best pro scouts in the league based off the last couple years, everyone also said we were screwed with nuke in the top 6 and I’d put money on you being one of them.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Yeah and somehow Joe managed to turn Jost into someone that fits the team better and is way cheaper… it’s not wait and see lol that core is ridiculous and all you need to do is fill the bottom 6 with certain style of players. Best pro scouts in the league based off the last couple years, everyone also said we were screwed with nuke in the top 6 and I’d put money on you being one of them.

Sturm is cheaper for 20 games. He's a UFA this summer who either signs for way more then Jost(Remember he already turned down 4x2.75M in Minnesota) or he walks away and then we are looking for a 4C.

 

[Avaholic29]

Sturm is cheaper for 20 games. He's a UFA this summer who either signs for way more then Jost(Remember he already turned down 4x2.75M in Minnesota) or he walks away and then we are looking for a 4C.

Insert Ben meyers at 4C.. see where I’m going yet? Lol there’s always an option and as long as they fit our style we will be fine. O’Connor was a nobody, aube kubel was a waiver claim and Johnson was a PTO. All have been more than serviceable players.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Insert Ben meyers at 4C.. see where I’m going yet? Lol there’s always an option and as long as they fit our style we will be fine. O’Connor was a nobody, aube kubel was a waiver claim and Johnson was a PTO. All have been more than serviceable players.

So you're expectation is the Avs sign the very best college UFA every year?


Like I said, wait and see.

 

[Avaholic29]

So you're expectation is the Avs sign the very best college UFA every year?


Like I said, wait and see.

Mention 3 other players and scenarios but doesn’t surprise me a know it all pessimist only nit picks the one name.

Nhl managers figure it out, you’re in here whining about years from now whilst we have the best team in the league lol get some sleep.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Sturm is cheaper for 20 games. He's a UFA this summer who either signs for way more then Jost(Remember he already turned down 4x2.75M in Minnesota) or he walks away and then we are looking for a 4C.

We were a contender before Sturm and will be a contender if he actually leaves. We have 2MM on Murray that has to go somewhere next year

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

We were a contender before Sturm and will be a contender if he actually leaves. We have 2MM on Murray that has to go somewhere next year

What's your point? Nobody is saying anything about next year...

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Mention 3 other players and scenarios but doesn’t surprise me a know it all pessimist only nit picks the one name.

Nhl managers figure it out, you’re in here whining about years from now whilst we have the best team in the league lol get some sleep.

That's the response I expected from you. Quality

 

[GirardSpinorama]

What's your point? Nobody is saying anything about next year...

My point is, we aren't even utilizing all of our cap space now and we still have the best team in the league. We already ice quality depth that is crazy cheap. So to worry about our depth after Mack's deal that is already covered by EJ's and JTC's expirary deal makes little sense to me. Other teams have way more to worry about than we do. We're just fortunate to have Sakic that knows how to give good deals and not saddle us with Donskoi (bye) or Grubauer.

I want you to come up a better argument on why we can't ice quality depth when we're already doing it. Saad, Donskoi, Grubs, Graves gone and we're better this year lol. That should be enough to give you confidence that we're going to be fine.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

My point is, we aren't even utilizing all of our cap space now and we still have the best team in the league. We already ice quality depth that is crazy cheap. So to worry about our depth after Mack's deal that is already covered by EJ's and JTC's expirary deal makes little sense to me. Other teams have way more to worry about than we do. We're just fortunate to have Sakic that knows how to give good deals and not saddle us with Donskoi (bye) or Grubauer.

That just isn't true though.


Besides Mackinnon, Byram and Newhook are also getting substantial raises that same summer.


Kuemper, Nichushkin, and Lehkonen are all getting substantial raises this year.



Raises with money that simply does not exist.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

That just isn't true though.


Besides Mackinnon, Byram and Newhook are also getting substantial raises that same summer.


Kuemper, Nichushkin, and Lehkonen are all getting substantial raises this year.



Raises with money that simply does not exist.

Byram and Newhook are RFAs without arbitration rights.

Kuemper, Nich, Lehkonen are getting money from Burakovsky, Kadri, Murray leaving in UFA. Keumper, Nuck, Lehkonen aren't exactly making minimum right now, so we only need to cover their raise.

Again, I think we only have to make a tough decision when Toews' contract is up and thats too far down the line for me to care.

 

[Bender]

I can only imagine what argument you're responding too(I have them on ignore).


But yeah pretty much. Between Mack, Newhook, and Byram.... The Avs are going to be adding ~15M in additional cap hit in the summer of 2023.


Simply put there's just not 15M in cap space coming off the books that summer. Even if we assume both EJ and JTC stay here until contracts end, that's only 7.5M in cap space freed up(Since we would still need guys to replace them even at league minimum).



Math is hard for some but this isn't even hard math

You seem pretty dug-in to this so I'll assume you were one of the ones figuring that we were screwed beyond the MacKinnon extension.

I think your math might be off a little. MacKinnon at 13, Newhook and Byram at $5M when they haven't even come close to earning that kind of contract yet and you're already worried about Meyers' next contract when he just signed a few hours ago.

I guess some people always assume the worst. Like when the sky was falling because there was no way the Avs were signing Landeskog for less than $8M - $8.5M... (yeah those posts still exist)

Byram and Newhook are unlikely to get that kind of money on a bridge when Sergachev and Cirelli signed bridges for less and were much more accomplished at the time of those contracts.

So $2m from Mack won't make a difference but maybe another $1m here and another $1m there plus the cap going up and maybe the sky isn't falling after all.

Hopefully the Avs have realized that there is practically no difference in getting solid vets on cheap deals like Helm, Cogliano and JMFJ rather than pay guys too much to play on your 4th line/bottom pairing. I really liked Bellemare and Calvert when they were here but there is not a big enough difference between them and the aforementioned Helm & Cogs for it to be worth it, in my opinion. That's when you get yourself in trouble... overpaying for depth players that can be acquired for 5th round picks at the TDL.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Byram and Newhook are RFAs without arbitration rights.

Kuemper, Nich, Lehkonen are getting money from Burakovsky, Kadri, Murray leaving in UFA. Keumper, Nuck, Lehkonen aren't exactly making minimum right now, so we only need to cover their raise.

Again, I think we only have to make a tough decision when Toews' contract is up and thats too far down the line for me to care.

Kuemper is making 3.5M right now. He's getting 5M on his next deal if not 6M.


Nuke is getting at least a 2M raise if not more, and Lehkonen is getting 2M+ as well.


Besides that... So your plan is to use the Kadri and Burakovsky money to re-sign all of these guys? So who's replacing Kadri, our leading goal scorer this year? Or the 20 Goals and 60 points from Burakovsky?


They aren't exactly ELC replaceable players.



Again, the problem isn't with next year either. They have some money for this summer. The problems will come in 2023.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Kuemper is making 3.5M right now. He's getting 5M on his next deal if not 6M.


Nuke is getting at least a 2M raise if not more, and Lehkonen is getting 2M+ as well.


Besides that... So your plan is to use the Kadri and Burakovsky money to re-sign all of these guys? So who's replacing Kadri, our leading goal scorer this year? Or the 20 Goals and 60 points from Burakovsky?


They aren't exactly ELC replaceable players.



Again, the problem isn't with next year either. They have some money for this summer. The problems will come in 2023.

Well you think Newhook and Byram is gonna get 5 M each in 2023; so you must think they are pretty good talents in the market that can replace top 6/top 4 players. Mack not missing 20+ games with a freak injury can also replace Kadri. Hell, we're not playing Kadri right now.

I think you should explore capfriendly and do some scenario making. You will see that we're pretty much good until the Toews contract. Which again, is so far down the line that worrying about it just seems like its not worth my time.

 

[MacKaRtin]

The math simply does not add up.

I think all of us have forgotten how the salary cap was working before it became a flat cap. Pretty much everyone on this board does the math with the assumption that the salary cap will be between $80-85 million for the next few years.

7 out of the 16 years in the salary cap era, there has been an increase of $4.3 million or more from year to year.

As soon as the players have paid off most of their escrow, we might see some large bumps again in the coming seasons. With the full arenas, influx of gambling money, the jersey/sweater patch money, and the new TV deals as well as general inflation rates in society, things are trending in the right direction.

In fact, if we can get our key players locked into long-term contracts during the flat cap period, we might be sitting pretty when the cap starts to bump up $3-4 million per year.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I think all of us have forgotten how the salary cap was working before it became a flat cap. Pretty much everyone on this board does the math with the assumption that the salary cap will be between $80-85 million for the next few years.

7 out of the 16 years in the salary cap era, there has been an increase of $4.3 million or more from year to year.

As soon as the players have paid off most of their escrow, we might see some large bumps again in the coming seasons. With the full arenas, influx of gambling money, the jersey/sweater patch money, and the new TV deals as well as general inflation rates in society, things are trending in the right direction.

In fact, if we can get our key players locked into long-term contracts during the flat cap period, we might be sitting pretty when the cap starts to bump up $3-4 million per year.

That's just the thing though... The players aren't paying off the owners until after the 2023-24 season at the earliest.


Our cap crunch us coming well before that.

 

[Bender]

Kuemper is making 3.5M right now. He's getting 5M on his next deal if not 6M.


Nuke is getting at least a 2M raise if not more, and Lehkonen is getting 2M+ as well.


Besides that... So your plan is to use the Kadri and Burakovsky money to re-sign all of these guys? So who's replacing Kadri, our leading goal scorer this year? Or the 20 Goals and 60 points from Burakovsky?


They aren't exactly ELC replaceable players.



Again, the problem isn't with next year either. They have some money for this summer. The problems will come in 2023.

These "problems" as you put it are just par for the course in managing a contender with the salary cap.

In the summer of 2023, the Avs will have already re-upped MacKinnon AND Devon Toews will be on the last year of his deal. At that point, the Avs will be able to negotiate an extension that fits into their long-term plans OR NOT and if they can't sign him to something that makes sense going forward, he will be moved probably in exchange for a younger player on a cheaper deal.

There is nothing to see here...