TruePowerSlave
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- Jun 27, 2015
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It's a much better alternative than suggesting Newhook to be the #2C next season
Rumor: 2022-2022 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Part 14: Sakic goes back to bed
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- Jan 18, 2016
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The issue is that there is quite literally 0 inclination the Avs have any interest in playing Mikko at C.
Richard88
John 3:16
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... except for the times he's played 2C this very season...
flyfysher
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So should JTC be an option at 2C? I don't think that should cross people's minds as an option either. I'd put Newhook or Rantanen at 2C over JTC without hesitation.
JTC shouldn't be playing above 3W.
TruePowerSlave
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I agree. However, posting here is complete fantasy talk anyway.
If a legit #2 C doesn't arrive in the summer I don't see any alternative that makes more sense than slapping Rants as the second-line center.
- Apr 25, 2006
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Don't be surprised if JTC starts the next season at 2C between Lehks and Nuke.
I'm dead serious, that's literally what they are doing right now without Kadri. Replace Bura with Landy and that could very well be the 2022-23 top 6.
That'd allow them to keep Girard + re-up Kuemper and Nuke.
I'm dead serious, that's literally what they are doing right now without Kadri. Replace Bura with Landy and that could very well be the 2022-23 top 6.
That'd allow them to keep Girard + re-up Kuemper and Nuke.
TruePowerSlave
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The prophecy will be fulfilled and son of Bednar gets to be the #2C. They would have to be braindead to have that thought enter their mind.
flyfysher
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Bender
I'll eat pancakes on his grave!
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It was just an example but could easily be changed to :
Landeskog-MacKinnon-Nichushkin
Lekhonen-Newhook-Rantanen
There are a lot of different combinations that could be made and tried.
I don't know about being optmistic, it's more about giving the guy a chance before everyone decides that he already can't do it. I think we can all agree that Newhook right now is a MUCH better player than when he started the season and there's at least a decent chance, he could continue to improve with the next 10 games and a long playoff run. It's a smarter option to pencil him in and then take action if it doesn't work then to overpay for a guy like Trocheck on July 1st only to find out that you had an in-house option all along.
I like having Rantanen as a temporary fall-back plan in case it's a complete disaster but that would eally surprise me.
I think the Avs will be looking at adding wingers like Rikard Rakell, Riley Smith, Ondrej Palat or Ilya Mikheyev to round out that Top-9 and then maybe a role player like Zach Aston-Reese or Johan Larsson or someone like that.
Unless he takes a reasonable 4th line salary, I'm not convinced Sturm is here to stay. I think the Avs will also say goodbye to Helm and Ryan Murray. Cogliano has been a great addition though, I wouldn't mind if they brought him and Jack Johnson back on 1 year deals.
TruePowerSlave
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Sakic deserves the befit of the doubt. Snowblower man has been easily one of the best GMs for half a decade now.
Over time Rants' skating and effort levels would get exposed at center. He's a better option than Newhook right now, but I think outside of spurts, Rantanen would end up struggling and move back. Assuming Kadri is gone and there isn't a 2C brought in though, Rants should be looked at there.
Perratrooper
Registered User
Depending on how things play out in the post season I wouldn’t be surprised if we re-signed Manson in the off-season to a $3-$3.5m by 4 contract (assuming he would re-sign).
Some comparables are:
Edmundson (27) $3.5x4
J. McCabe (27) $4x4
DeMelo (27) $3x4
Montour (27) $3.5x3
Mi. Rielly (27) $3x3
Dillon (29) $3.9x4
Larsson (28) $4x4
Ceci (28) $3.25x4
Manson turns 31 in October, which IMO would put him at the lower end of the range.
This would give us a blue line of:
Toews-Makar
Girard-Manson
Byram-EJ
MacDermaid
Given that EJ is getting healthy scratched right now I would no be surprised if the Avs bought him out in the off-season. In addition to this, I wonder if Sakic looks to move Girard to help address some holes up front assuming that Byram is able to play throughout the playoffs and remains healthy with no PCS into the off-season.
Some comparables are:
Edmundson (27) $3.5x4
J. McCabe (27) $4x4
DeMelo (27) $3x4
Montour (27) $3.5x3
Mi. Rielly (27) $3x3
Dillon (29) $3.9x4
Larsson (28) $4x4
Ceci (28) $3.25x4
Manson turns 31 in October, which IMO would put him at the lower end of the range.
This would give us a blue line of:
Toews-Makar
Girard-Manson
Byram-EJ
MacDermaid
Given that EJ is getting healthy scratched right now I would no be surprised if the Avs bought him out in the off-season. In addition to this, I wonder if Sakic looks to move Girard to help address some holes up front assuming that Byram is able to play throughout the playoffs and remains healthy with no PCS into the off-season.
- Jan 18, 2016
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GoNordiquesGo
Registered User
I too think that Sakic will not try to build an all-star 2nd line. I think he will star with Newhook, Nichushkin and Lekhonen and will try to build a very solid 3rd line instead. He will have his top 1st line and a bunch of good middle 6 players and will anaylyze and evaluate them all season long, before making moves at the dealine to shore up the weaknesses at that time.
AvsCOL
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Yeah I’m looking forward to seeing him in a role where he’s given a chance to succeed. He’s playing with 4th liners right now for the most part. Would be nice to see him in the playoffs with Lehkonen and Compher, I think he can be a real x-factor for them.
I think the focus of the off-season needs to be a driver for that second line. Nichushkin is awesome, but he’s not carrying his own line offensively. I hope the Avs take a run at Filip Forsberg, he’d be so perfect for that role. Honestly if it took $8m x 7 I’d do it. He carries everyone around him.
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dahrougem2
Registered User
Newhook turned 21 in January. He's 7th amongst forwards in points while being 10th in TOI. A 37 point pace as a rookie is nothing to scoff at.
Lest we forget Mikko Rantanen had 38 points in 75 games during his rookie season, and he was 4th amongst forwards in TOI.
What Alex Newhook is today isn't what Alex Newhook will be forever. He can improve and I think we'll see him continue to improve. The Avs clearly value him a lot, I'll bet he is penciled in as the 2C for next season while being surrounded by Nichushkin/Lehkonen.
Lest we forget Mikko Rantanen had 38 points in 75 games during his rookie season, and he was 4th amongst forwards in TOI.
What Alex Newhook is today isn't what Alex Newhook will be forever. He can improve and I think we'll see him continue to improve. The Avs clearly value him a lot, I'll bet he is penciled in as the 2C for next season while being surrounded by Nichushkin/Lehkonen.
That really isn't the best apples to apples comparision. The 16-17 Avs scored a total of 165 goals (a historically bad offensive season). Avs have scored over 100 more already this season.
I don't think the Avs value Newhook at center as much as people think. They got Sturm for the 3C role to push Newhook to the wing. When Kadri went down, Compher moved to center on that line instead. If Newhook was certain to be the guy at center, they'd be playing him there.
dahrougem2
Registered User
It's not an apples to apples comparison, but people are quick to dismiss Newhook as an option despite him performing quite well relative to rookie expectations this season. He's hit a dry spell lately, but that's to be expected with most rookies.
I don't think the Sturm move has anything to do with Newhook. IMO it has more to do with Sakic finally recognizing it was time to move on from Tyson Jost and getting a bigger bodied centre in return. Just because Newhook as a rookie is pushed to the wing doesn't mean the Avs don't value him as a centre. There just seems to be a more pressing need for him on the wing than down the middle (shocker given our centre depth history). Next season the 2C spot can be firmly his if he has a good summer.
LTC Pain
Registered User
Initially, I didn't like the idea of buying out EJ, for any reason. And I do think he's overpaid at this point in career and is slowing down. However, to have cap space to re-sign Nuke, and Kadri, buying out EJ is becoming more attractive. Admittedly, I'm not a cap-spaceologist. If losing EJ allows us to help pay Nuke/Kadri then I'm all for it. I think Joe can find a RH UFA D-man for the third pairing for mucho less than EJ's getting paid.
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My guess is the Avs trade for a 2C with 1-2 years left on his contract in the summer, similar to what they did when trading for Kadri.
Maybe history repeats itself and they use Girard to get that 2C(Which would also make it a lot easier from a cap perspective), or they use the 2023 1st as the basis of the deal.
1-2 years buys more time for Newhook to continue improving in a less pressured situation as a 3C/2W instead of being relied upon as a quality 2C in our final contending years.
Then I think they go for a winger in free agency, there's some reasonable decent options available at least right now. Burakovsky, Rakell, Forsberg(Especially if they use Girard to get a 2C we could afford Forsberg), Perron, Smith, Rust, Rodridgues, Palat, Marchment, Strome, just to name a few.
I could see the Avs trading for Miller this summer and signing Palat for example.
Maybe history repeats itself and they use Girard to get that 2C(Which would also make it a lot easier from a cap perspective), or they use the 2023 1st as the basis of the deal.
1-2 years buys more time for Newhook to continue improving in a less pressured situation as a 3C/2W instead of being relied upon as a quality 2C in our final contending years.
Then I think they go for a winger in free agency, there's some reasonable decent options available at least right now. Burakovsky, Rakell, Forsberg(Especially if they use Girard to get a 2C we could afford Forsberg), Perron, Smith, Rust, Rodridgues, Palat, Marchment, Strome, just to name a few.
I could see the Avs trading for Miller this summer and signing Palat for example.
flyfysher
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Yeah, IIRC last year you were one of those people like JB that thought JTC had done a serviceable job at 2C against the VGK. Maybe you were looking at it with more than a coach's eye than someone like me who definitely doesn't know the game as well as you but I know a lot of knowledgeable people dislike having JTC play there. So the unspoken part of your analysis is, what are the options?
Would any of us really be okay with JTC playing 2C in the POs? If so, why (as compared to Newhook or Rantanen)?
Newhook is having a fine rookie season. A bit under my expectations for him, but he's been fine. I think his skating has clearly impacted him at center.
I think it is a clear signal they believe they can't count on Newhook being a center. Why replace a rookie who you have high expectations for with a guy who hasn't been able to nail down a 3C role on a worse team?
It wouldn't shock me to see the Avs pencil in Newhook as the 2C (and cap wise they may not have much of a choice), but I don't think he'll be plan A or B there.
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