2021 Coyotes Roster Discussion Pt. 4

[TheLegend]

Craig: the Coyotes need more talent!

Also Craig: the Coyotes should expose Keller

Those two statements are more relevant than you think.

 

[TheLegend]

Top priority is to get Chychrun a d-partner, not trade him... that contract!

Goose..... on a reasonable deal.

 

[Mosby]

Replacing Schmaltz with Keller maybe?

I think Keller is here to stay. He finished this year at a 51pt/82gp pace. Is it unreasonable to think he can get another 19 points with Eichel and without Tocchet? I mean, another 19 points is less than 3 more points per month over a full season.

Beyond that, Army has known Keller since he was a kid, and he also made a point about preferring to build a team of guys who are drafted by the organization because it means more to them. That's Keller. That isn't Schmaltz.

 

[Canis Latrans]

What puts it over the edge?

For the original proposal of Schmaltz, Hayton, Kuemper, 2021 CBJ 2nd (36 or 37th overall), and the 2022 protected Coyotes 1st, I think Kuemper isn't necessarily worth a lot to them because of his age and time left on his deal. He could just walk soon as soon as next year. If they insisted on him, sure, put him in, but I would think he could garner more in a trade with a better team that just needs an upgrade in goal to get to contender status. I'm not sure what outside teams are thinking about Hayton now. I don't really know what to expect, but I could see an outsider looking at his recent history and thinking he's not worth a lot. He's not a shiny piece you clamor to get included in the deal I would think and, therefore, he's probably worth more to us than most other teams. Schmaltz is probably fine to include and would be wanted, and the draft picks are ok. I think they would either want more draft picks and another top prospect, or you'd need to throw in another young roster player. I'd have to think about it more. I don't know that the value is right to just add another player and keep Schmaltz in there.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

For the original proposal of Schmaltz, Hayton, Kuemper, 2021 CBJ 2nd (36 or 37th overall), and the 2022 protected Coyotes 1st, I think Kuemper isn't necessarily worth a lot to them because of his age and time left on his deal. He could just walk soon as soon as next year. If they insisted on him, sure, put him in, but I would think he could garner more in a trade with a better team that just needs an upgrade in goal to get to contender status. I'm not sure what outside teams are thinking about Hayton now. I don't really know what to expect, but I could see an outsider looking at his recent history and thinking he's not worth a lot. He's not a shiny piece you clamor to get included in the deal I would think and, therefore, he's probably worth more to us than most other teams. Schmaltz is probably fine to include and would be wanted, and the draft picks are ok. I think they would either want more draft picks and another top prospect, or you'd need to throw in another young roster player. I'd have to think about it more. I don't know that the value is right to just add another player and keep Schmaltz in there.

If they don't want Kuemper we could offer another 2nd, and assume that's what we will get for Kuemper.

I don't see us getting a 1st for him with only one year left and we have lost leverage. Other teams know we're trading him so we can protect Hill.

 

[rt]

Those two statements are more relevant than you think.

Huh?

 

[Mosby]

Going back to that Rumors Daily guy, maybe we flip Kuemper for another asset first (a draft pick) and then we can include that in a potential Eichel deal.

 

[Mosby]

So if you do that mega deal for Eichel and then go out and overpay Schwartz (former Army draft pick) in UFA...

Keller Eichel Garland
Schwartz Dvorak Kessel
Bunting ??? Fisher/Pitlick (one goes to Seattle)
Crouse Larsson Gabriel

Chychrun ???
OEL Soderstrom?
?? Goligoski/Oesterle/Bush

Hill
Andersen?

I think there is still something like 10-12 mil there with potential flexibility of Kessel and OEL trades.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Just go sign Stepan for cheap center depth until Jeník is ready.

 

[rt]

So if you do that mega deal for Eichel and then go out and overpay Schwartz (former Army draft pick) in UFA...

Keller Eichel Garland
Schwartz Dvorak Kessel
Bunting ??? Fisher/Pitlick (one goes to Seattle)
Crouse Larsson Gabriel

Chychrun ???
OEL Soderstrom?
?? Goligoski/Oesterle/Bush

Hill
Andersen?

I think there is still something like 10-12 mil there with potential flexibility of Kessel and OEL trades.

1. Keller+ Hayton+ Kuemper(or parlayed pick)+Unprotected 1st for Eichel

2. LOL and Fischer for Schmidt and Roussel

Sign Bunting, Goligoski, Schwartz, Gabrial and Andersen like you said (but also Oleksiak and Jaskin)

Schwartz-Eichel-Garland
Bunting-Schmaltz-Kessel
Roussel-Dvorak-T. Pitlick
Crouse-J.Larsson-Jaskin
Gabriel

Chychrun-N.Schmidt
Oleksiak-Soderstrom
Goligoski-Lyubushkin
Provolnev

Adin Hill
Andersen

 

[Jamieh]

Just go sign Stepan for cheap center depth until Jeník is ready.

You trying to kill Jakey? He's just getting over the high of getting rid of him. LOL

 

[rt]

Just go sign Stepan for cheap center depth until Jeník is ready.

Do NOT do that.

 

[Mosby]

@rt I like the number of irritating players (to the opposition) in that forward group.

 

[rt]

@rt I like the number of irritating players (to the opposition) in that forward group.

Yeah, Gabriel will be a VERY busy man with teammates like that. Haha. Luckily, when he's scratched we'll at least have Oleksiak (and I guess Crouse) out there if it gets really out of hand.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

1. Keller+ Hayton+ Kuemper(or parlayed pick)+Unprotected 1st for Eichel

2. LOL and Fischer for Schmidt and Roussel

Sign Bunting, Goligoski, Schwartz, Gabrial and Andersen like you said (but also Oleksiak and Jaskin)

Schwartz-Eichel-Garland
Bunting-Schmaltz-Kessel
Roussel-Dvorak-T. Pitlick
Crouse-J.Larsson-Jaskin
Gabriel

Chychrun-N.Schmidt
Oleksiak-Soderstrom
Goligoski-Lyubushkin
Provolnev

Adin Hill
Andersen

I like except I really want a scoring winger to play with Dvorak. With this lineup I think Coleman would be a good fit. He might only cost 1-1.5M more than Rousel too.

 

[Neighborhood Coyote]

Just go sign Stepan for cheap center depth until Jeník is ready.

*GASP!*
Don't take kindly to that kind of blasphemy in these here parts.

Haha but that would be a kick in my gut... Finally rid of him AND Tocchet just to get one of them back.

 

[XX]

Just go sign Stepan for cheap center depth until Jeník is ready.

I think you missed why Stepan was unceremoniously thrown overboard even though it left the team short a center.

 

[Schemp]

I t

I think you missed why Stepan was unceremoniously thrown overboard even though it left the team short a center.

I totally disagree, I went to the ceremony! Partied all night!

 

[Canis Latrans]

You trying to kill Jakey? He's just getting over the high of getting rid of him. LOL

Do NOT do that.

*GASP!*
Don't take kindly to that kind of blasphemy in these here parts.

Haha but that would be a kick in my gut... Finally rid of him AND Tocchet just to get one of them back.

I think you missed why Stepan was unceremoniously thrown overboard even though it left the team short a center.

I missed the smiley face, but to play this up some more, you guys know the real reason Stepan got all those minutes on the ice was to get him off the bench where he was providing more coaching than Tocchet could.

 

[cobra427]

At age 23 OEL was an absolute roller coaster defensively. During his 20+ goal, Norris voting years, he was a complete rover. Chychrun is much, much more sound defensively. OEL got better for a period AFTER the big offense seasons.

OEL was playing top pairing minutes when he was 19 or 20. OEL was sound then and he is sound now even though he has slowed a bit. Chychrun is average or below on D right now, he is far from sound, and he isn't anywhere close to OEL on D. Chych got way more goals and took way more shots then anyone on the team to get them. OEL took less shots and had a very low shooting percentage. Chych is our MVP no doubt this year but he is far from a great defensive player. I like him and hope he keeps improving and gets there. i hope OEL rebounds as well.

 

[cobra427]

Just go sign Stepan for cheap center depth until Jeník is ready.

Well, our GAA went up a lot this year, partly because Stepan/Richardson were gone, just saying....Jakey

 

[gorsk11]

OEL was playing top pairing minutes when he was 19 or 20. OEL was sound then and he is sound now even though he has slowed a bit. Chychrun is average or below on D right now, he is far from sound, and he isn't anywhere close to OEL on D. Chych got way more goals and took way more shots then anyone on the team to get them. OEL took less shots and had a very low shooting percentage. Chych is our MVP no doubt this year but he is far from a great defensive player. I like him and hope he keeps improving and gets there. i hope OEL rebounds as well.

I just want to say that OEL was a -17 worst for all our defenseman so to say that he was sound compared to chychrun..... when comparing the two. All of our defenseman make mistakes... I dont see OEL as our best defenseman at all

 

[Gwyddbwyll]

I just want to say that OEL was a -17 worst for all our defenseman so to say that he was sound compared to chychrun..... when comparing the two. All of our defenseman make mistakes... I dont see OEL as our best defenseman at all

Plus minus is not a good metric to judge defensive ability.

Our best defensive players go out against the top offensive players. So on a team like the Coyotes that doesnt outgun their opponents, the best defensive players end up with the worst plus-minus (see Dvorak and Larsson for examples). Schmaltz and Garland have some of the best plus-minus on the team but they are not Selke candidates.

Chychrun is only -6 because of his tremendous year putting points up. Remove his even strength points and he ends up at -33. Remove OEL's ES points and he ends up at -27. And that's Chychrun playing most of the year with Goligoski while OEL got a #7 dman as a partner.

The best use of plus-minus I've found is probably to see how well a coach is using a player. For example if the coach constantly and repeatedly puts Garland out in situations where they concede and he's -20 is that Garland's fault or is it the coach's fault for not recognising the problems and taking action?

 

[87turbobuick]

I would go after Coleman and overpay a little for Hyman for sandpaper up front. Benn for around 1.5 would give us a dman that would help protect Chychrun or spend a little more and get Oleksiak. Finally sign Gabriel and point him in the direction of anyone who hits Garland.

 

[Jakey53]

Me or Eichel??? Both have merit

I guess we can go with both.