Prospect Info: 2020 NHL Draft 1st Overall Pick, Alexis Lafreniere, LW

[Chytilmania]

Kappo has had plenty of dryland training time. Wonder if he comes in with an additional 10-15 lbs of rock on him. Should help his game tremendously.

More muscle will also equal better conditioning.

 

[Kocur Dill]

I mean...were talking about the greatest player in the history of the game who finished his career in your jersey...why wouldn't you make that front and center?

I bet the chiefs have something from Joe montana in their facility.

And, he did it well.

So many came here for a final payday and checked out as soon as the ink dried. Gretzky, while not in his prime, still brought a B game that was equal to many stars A games and probably retired a few years too early.

Off the top of my head, the only other hired-gun players from that era that gave their all, but the cards didnt break right for them, were LaFontaine and Bure. Even Lindros to a degree. I really believe his off nights were concussion related, not for lack of heart.

 

[pld459666]

And, he did it well.

So many came here for a final payday and checked out as soon as the ink dried. Gretzky, while not in his prime, still brought a B game that was equal to many stars A games and probably retired a few years too early.

Off the top of my head, the only other hired-gun players from that era that gave their all, but the cards didnt break right for them, were LaFontaine and Bure. Even Lindros to a degree. I really believe his off nights were concussion related, not for lack of heart.

St. Louis had a decent final year here.

 

[pld459666]

More muscle will also equal better conditioning.

Hope it doesn't slow him down as that can also happen with too much weight gain.

 

[Kocur Dill]

St. Louis had a decent final year here.

I was more or less addressing the dark ages of the 7 year drought. Piss poor organizational philosophy and a turnstile lockeroom of heartless mercenaries.

 

[Chytilmania]

Hope it doesn't slow him down as that can also happen with too much weight gain.

This is such an outdated take. The more muscle you have the faster you will skate. The more fat you have/the weaker you are the slower you will skate.

 

[Rangers in 7]

This is such an outdated take. The more muscle you have the faster you will skate. The more fat you have/the weaker you are the slower you will skate.

this all makes sense to me now, no wonder i didnt make it to the nhl lol

 

[Levitate]

And, he did it well.

So many came here for a final payday and checked out as soon as the ink dried. Gretzky, while not in his prime, still brought a B game that was equal to many stars A games and probably retired a few years too early.

Off the top of my head, the only other hired-gun players from that era that gave their all, but the cards didnt break right for them, were LaFontaine and Bure. Even Lindros to a degree. I really believe his off nights were concussion related, not for lack of heart.

Lindros was dominant before his first Rangers concussion. He definitely toned it back after that and wasn't as effective.

mania, post: 174676371, member: 296743"]This is such an outdated take. The more muscle you have the faster you will skate. The more fat you have/the weaker you are the slower you will skate.[/QUOTE]

 

[EdJovanovski]

This is such an outdated take. The more muscle you have the faster you will skate. The more fat you have/the weaker you are the slower you will skate.

I don't think that's exactly true, if it were the case NHL players would focus more on getting jacked. A massive bodybuilder physique wouldn't be ideal for hockey

 

[Edge]

I don't think that's exactly true, if it were the case NHL players would focus more on getting jacked. A massive bodybuilder physique wouldn't be ideal for hockey

To your point, you often hear NHL GMs and coaches talk about adding "the right kind" of weight.

In other words, they don't want offensive linemen out there, they need guys who are strong, but still agile.

Most times you have to trade some speed for strength (this happened with guys like Jagr and Sundin who commented on not being as fast when they entered the league). But the objective is to make yourself a harder player to go up against. In Kakko's case I suspect he focused on upper body strength and skating efficiciences to help compensate.

One technique a lot of trainers use is to have their clients pull weight while running, wearing weights while skating, etc. The strategy focuses on helping the lower body get used to moving more pounds before the upper body adds it.

 

[Mikos87]

Ageism aside- MSL delivered. A run to the cup finals, a presidents trophy, and getting to game 7 of the ECF. I know this board never adopted him, but he delivered.

It's funny prior to the MSL trade, I ran some stats on what the team would be if you turned Callahan into MSL. It was a winning move. You netted close to .5/GPG on that trade. That and the Carcillo trade put that team over the top. Numbers worked out real nicely. Just a bad match-up in the 2014 finals. That old system had a flaw and LA was the type of team that could capitalize against it.

 

[Chytilmania]

I don't think that's exactly true, if it were the case NHL players would focus more on getting jacked. A massive bodybuilder physique wouldn't be ideal for hockey

Lol when did I say getting a massive physique? I'm not talking about body building. Think of Crosby or Marty St. Louis. Massive, strong legs. Bodybuilders are more show than strength.
And it's entirely possible to increase strength without adding on weight for any athlete who is worried about getting "too big."

 

[Profet]

This is such an outdated take. The more muscle you have the faster you will skate. The more fat you have/the weaker you are the slower you will skate.

Yes... I mention this a fair amount... but only when its applicable. And if you know what I'm talking about... congrats... we're old.

 

[LokiDog]

I don't think that's exactly true, if it were the case NHL players would focus more on getting jacked. A massive bodybuilder physique wouldn't be ideal for hockey

That’s not really true (neither is the original generalization). Hockey players would have no reason to focus on getting jacked or having a bodybuilder physique because a barrel chest, massive triceps and huge shoulders isn’t going to make them any faster or really effective (it’s really a purely aesthetic pursuit), but building bigger, stronger quads and core will directly relate to speed and torque. Of course, the training has to be sport specific as well. Doing hundreds of sets of leg extensions will blow your quads up and give you the size, muscle separation, etc. that a bodybuilder is after in their quads, but it won’t really make you faster. Doing things like explosive squats, pistol squats, power cleans will also make you bigger but have a more direct correlation to making you faster and more explosive.

It should go without saying that this is combined with explosive skating drills and lateral movement drills to ensure that muscle gains and conditioning are kept abreast of one another and the muscle is being utilized as intended, while the essential movements (stop, start, skating stride, edge work, crossovers blah blah) are constantly being reenforced. It’s all kind of useless if you become more efficient as doing power cleans than skating.

So, yes, assuming he’s training under some sort of guidance (which we assume is professional and intelligent) than we can assume any added muscle will be to muscle groups that would positively effect his performance, made through athletic movements that lend themselves to better results. I doubt he’s not doing sport specific training to optimize performance, so whatever muscle he gains should not be detrimental and should only make him faster and stronger. On the side, it probably won’t make him as aesthetically “jacked” and proportionate as if he focused on bodybuilding, but combined with good nutrition will still result in a better physique anyways.

But in the generalized sense, training unsupervised and without a sport specific approach just to “get bigger” could have, probably not a noticeable negative effect on performance, but a negligible one. Just going to the gym and doing a bro split so he could have some boulder shoulders and get a sick arm pump probably wouldn’t slow him down or hurt his performance, but it wouldn’t really enhance it either.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Having more muscle does not= being faster.

You train the muscles which are most important to your specific sport and need to simultaneously also get on the ice while building said muscle so it's being trained to do what it's supposed to do or else its just going to be useless tissue (even if with sport specific workouts)

Getting "swole" may be a by product of this, but it isn't always. Guys who are 18-22 are going to get bigger just by virtue of biology/ being under the watchful eye of the some of the best professionals in this field.

 

[LokiDog]

To your point, you often hear NHL GMs and coaches talk about adding "the right kind" of weight.

In other words, they don't want offensive linemen out there, they need guys who are strong, but still agile.

Most times you have to trade some speed for strength (this happened with guys like Jagr and Sundin who commented on not being as fast when they entered the league). But the objective is to make yourself a harder player to go up against. In Kakko's case I suspect he focused on upper body strength and skating efficiciences to help compensate.

One technique a lot of trainers use is to have their clients pull weight while running, wearing weights while skating, etc. The strategy focuses on helping the lower body get used to moving more pounds before the upper body adds it.

What you mention in the final paragraph is becoming far more prevalent. Sport specific training has evolved a great deal recently (the fitness industry as a whole has blossomed) and the result is that well coached athletes are less likely to be inhibited by added size than they were in the past. Things like sled pulls, box jumps, weighted box jumps, combined with lateral movement drills, ample stretching, and a variety of other sport specific exercises focusing on fast and slow twitch development are what are making things like Gary Roberts’ training sessions so popular. The coaches have honed in on making sure their athletes are adding “the right kind of muscle” for their specific sports. It’s not NEW, it’s just becoming more refined and prevalent than it used to be.

 

[pld459666]

This is such an outdated take. The more muscle you have the faster you will skate. The more fat you have/the weaker you are the slower you will skate.

Disagree, but thats ok

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Disagree, but thats ok

Case in point, Phil Kessel.

 

[EdJovanovski]

That’s not really true (neither is the original generalization). Hockey players would have no reason to focus on getting jacked or having a bodybuilder physique because a barrel chest, massive triceps and huge shoulders isn’t going to make them any faster or really effective (it’s really a purely aesthetic pursuit), but building bigger, stronger quads and core will directly relate to speed and torque. Of course, the training has to be sport specific as well. Doing hundreds of sets of leg extensions will blow your quads up and give you the size, muscle separation, etc. that a bodybuilder is after in their quads, but it won’t really make you faster. Doing things like explosive squats, pistol squats, power cleans will also make you bigger but have a more direct correlation to making you faster and more explosive.

It should go without saying that this is combined with explosive skating drills and lateral movement drills to ensure that muscle gains and conditioning are kept abreast of one another and the muscle is being utilized as intended, while the essential movements (stop, start, skating stride, edge work, crossovers blah blah) are constantly being reenforced. It’s all kind of useless if you become more efficient as doing power cleans than skating.

So, yes, assuming he’s training under some sort of guidance (which we assume is professional and intelligent) than we can assume any added muscle will be to muscle groups that would positively effect his performance, made through athletic movements that lend themselves to better results. I doubt he’s not doing sport specific training to optimize performance, so whatever muscle he gains should not be detrimental and should only make him faster and stronger. On the side, it probably won’t make him as aesthetically “jacked” and proportionate as if he focused on bodybuilding, but combined with good nutrition will still result in a better physique anyways.

But in the generalized sense, training unsupervised and without a sport specific approach just to “get bigger” could have, probably not a noticeable negative effect on performance, but a negligible one. Just going to the gym and doing a bro split so he could have some boulder shoulders and get a sick arm pump probably wouldn’t slow him down or hurt his performance, but it wouldn’t really enhance it either.

Do you think adding muscle to the upper body would lead to a person being slower? As your legs are carrying significantly more weight in your upper body
I also think that excess muscle can negative effect vo2 max & such. Sprinters are more toned than bulky, so are the vast majority of hockey players

 

[LokiDog]

Do you think adding muscle to the upper body would lead to a person being slower? As your legs are carrying significantly more weight in your upper body
I also think that excess muscle can negative effect vo2 max & such. Sprinters are more toned than bulky, so are the vast majority of hockey players

Most hockey players are hardly even toned. They’re deceptively unathletic looking. But I don’t think 5-10lbs of muscle on the mind of builds they currently have would have any noticeable impact on speed or conditioning. 20+ pounds, especially if not spread over 5+ years with conditioning and game time throughout could certainly slow you down though.

Tell me Toews couldn’t afford to put on 5-10lbs of pure muscle. Or that it slowed down Grabner.

 

[will1066]

I never knew Grabs was that tatted.

I'm in this thread mostly for the "Lafs".

 

[Richard Banger]

Hope it doesn't slow him down as that can also happen with too much weight gain.

Absolutely false. Adding muscle can improve your overall performance.

Krieder is in very good shape with a high muscle mass and blows past almost ever NHLer.

have you seen running backs? Example: Adrian Peterson is massive and yet can out run his smaller muscle mass opponents.

a lot of people don’t understand the human body and that’s ok. There is a reason why you have to have a degree to train professional athletes. It’s a science and with science comes the disproving or proving of theories.

 

[Richard Banger]

Do you think adding muscle to the upper body would lead to a person being slower? As your legs are carrying significantly more weight in your upper body
I also think that excess muscle can negative effect vo2 max & such. Sprinters are more toned than bulky, so are the vast majority of hockey players

Again False.

The term toned is misunderstood a lot. A sprinter isn’t toned. His muscle is low compared to what is recommended to be considered “healthy”

Toned in a basic terminology is having your fat cells as low as possible without consistently gaining muscle. (So not continuously adding more weight but instead maintaining a certain amount of weight and reaching high stabilization with that weight)

NHL athletes are toned but should never be compared to sprinters lmao. I don’t think you’ve seen these guys in the gym.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Absolutely false. Adding muscle can improve your overall performance.

Krieder is in very good shape with a high muscle mass and blows past almost ever NHLer.

have you seen running backs? Example: Adrian Peterson is massive and yet can out run his smaller muscle mass opponents.

a lot of people don’t understand the human body and that’s ok. There is a reason why you have to have a degree to train professional athletes. It’s a science and with science comes the disproving or proving of theories.

There is a point of diminishing returns though. Kreider actually dropped weight in the middle of his career post blood clot and got quicker. The extra weight didn’t hurt him as much as it would someone else because his baseline speed was already elite AF, but it did slow him down.

 

[Chytilmania]

There is a point of diminishing returns though. Kreider actually dropped weight in the middle of his career post blood clot and got quicker. The extra weight didn’t hurt him as much as it would someone else because his baseline speed was already elite AF, but it did slow him down.

Did he though? (I'm asking honestly because I wasn't aware of that)

We don't have access to his body composition pre and post blood clot so it's speculation.