OT: 2020 Football Thread: We Still Suck

[SA16]

Becton is in position to issue demands about being moved. Stating a preference, okay, sure, but not beyond that.
The guy who cuts the mustard -- or cuts it better -- proves he has dibs.

Sewell to LT.
Becton to either LG or RT depending on who else is out there.

Becton needs to drop 35 lbs fat and add back 15 lbs of muscle w/o tightening up. With what we know about physiology in 2021, that should be doable.

It is fair to say Darnold does not get a pass for just last few games, but also fair is how pathetic rest of the team has been during that time.
If we did not have cap reality => strategic decisions, I would say, sure, keep for certain.

The ? now is what would be on the table for him now as opposed to in a year w/hopefully better team/results/his production/stats improved.

There are some bright spots on the Jets now, but more talent is needed.

I don't expect top 3 value for Darnold, but if there is enough first round + package being offered, I seriously consider we go there.
The return of Darnold has to be weighed vs his projected increased value in a year, and that has to be balanced vs when he gets a new big contract.

I am open to anything but would still like to see if SF would package that O tackle McG w/14OA for Sam, Sam/+.

The return for Darnold will be, at best, a 2nd round pick.

 

[I Eat Crow]

This is going down in infamy like the Tyree helmet catch and the OBJ one handed catch.

 

[SA16]

The primary difference is that the overwhelming majority of QBs (like 95% or more) are right-handed. So the LT is tasked with protecting the QBs blindsided. The RT still has to defend against the pass rush but the QB has the play in his face.

When the LT blows an assignment or gets bullrushed, that's usually when you see the QB get killed. The RT can f*** up but the QB generally has a better chance to get rid of it, scramble, or at least protect himself because he can see it.

Yea I know what the difference is but I believe it is mostly a narrative and easy to scheme around. If I have JJ Watt on my defense why would I line him up against a pro bowl LT when I can have him line up vs some average RT that he will destroy? Even if the QB sees him coming he will wreak havock constantly being in the backfield and forcing the QB to get rid of the ball faster (For what it's worth the Texans in the past have done this and Watt historically does line up more on the left side [against the RT] - This is from 2014 but he had WAY more success playing LE vs RE The many places J.J. Watt lines up).

I think they are essentially of equal importance and you'd probably be better off having two average tackles than one good one and one bad one.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

If they do trade Darnold hope they do it quickly and not like at the draft

 

[nyr2k2]

Yea I know what the difference is but I believe it is mostly a narrative and easy to scheme around. If I have JJ Watt on my defense why would I line him up against a pro bowl LT when I can have him line up vs some average RT that he will destroy? Even if the QB sees him coming he will wreak havock constantly being in the backfield and forcing the QB to get rid of the ball faster (For what it's worth the Texans in the past have done this and Watt historically does line up more on the left side [against the RT] - This is from 2014 but he had WAY more success playing LE vs RE The many places J.J. Watt lines up).

I think they are essentially of equal importance and you'd probably be better off having two average tackles than one good one and one bad one.

Well, of course you move your best DE around to take advantage of matchups, like many others players on the field. The point remains that you're better off having your QB see the pressure in front of him than hoping he can feel it behind him. I think it's pretty logical and not just some narrative.

If the other team has two JJ Watt-level players, and I have one great tackle and one mediocre tackle, I'm having the great tackle on the blind side and the mediocre tackle on the right. Good defensive coordinators will always scheme to generate pressure from all fronts but having the QB's blind side protected is critical.

 

[sbjnyc]

Yea I know what the difference is but I believe it is mostly a narrative and easy to scheme around. If I have JJ Watt on my defense why would I line him up against a pro bowl LT when I can have him line up vs some average RT that he will destroy? Even if the QB sees him coming he will wreak havock constantly being in the backfield and forcing the QB to get rid of the ball faster (For what it's worth the Texans in the past have done this and Watt historically does line up more on the left side [against the RT] - This is from 2014 but he had WAY more success playing LE vs RE The many places J.J. Watt lines up).

I think they are essentially of equal importance and you'd probably be better off having two average tackles than one good one and one bad one.

Football-wise they may be equivalent but LTs typically get paid much more than RTs (lol at moving becton to guard). Ultimately in drafting Sewell at 2 you are deciding that you're willing to pay both the same in the future.

 

[SA16]

Well, of course you move your best DE around to take advantage of matchups, like many others players on the field. The point remains that you're better off having your QB see the pressure in front of him than hoping he can feel it behind him. I think it's pretty logical and not just some narrative.

If the other team has two JJ Watt-level players, and I have one great tackle and one mediocre tackle, I'm having the great tackle on the blind side and the mediocre tackle on the right. Good defensive coordinators will always scheme to generate pressure from all fronts but having the QB's blind side protected is critical.

But I'm not sure that's the case. Would you rather Watt get through the LT 20% of the time and when he does get a sack 20% of the time or have Watt get through the RT 40% of the time and get a sack 5% of the time. Completely made up numbers. On one side he has less of an impact but his impact plays are larger while on the other side he is making an impact more often by forcing the QB to make plays sooner than he wants but less destructive plays.

I feel like it is very easy to scheme against and if defenses scheme correctly they should be able to come up with an equilibrium where the LT/RT have equal importance.

 

[nyr2k2]

But I'm not sure that's the case. Would you rather Watt get through the LT 20% of the time and when he does get a sack 20% of the time or have Watt get through the RT 40% of the time and get a sack 5% of the time. Completely made up numbers. On one side he has less of an impact but his impact plays are larger while on the other side he is making an impact more often by forcing the QB to make plays sooner than he wants but less destructive plays.

I feel like it is very easy to scheme against and if defenses scheme correctly they should be able to come up with an equilibrium where the LT/RT have equal importance.

We'll, until such point that defenses collectively scheme to reach that equilibrium, the equilibrium doesn't exist and teams and coaches will continue to prioritize LTs over RTs. Maybe you've identified some inefficiency in the way NFL teams operate. I don't see it but we know they exist. IDK.

 

[bernmeister]

The return for Darnold will be, at best, a 2nd round pick.

Disagree.
One the one hand, you are completely right, people want to buy low and sell high. Darnold, like everybody else, is more attractive at a bargain price, and the lower the price, the more the interest.

On the other hand, this is not a guy who was a complete bust and who has failed without any reason for it.
Jets were a shit show for most of the past 2 seasons and as is typical, he barely played his first year.

Depending on who wants/needs what = reward v risk, I think you see someone willing to add to a 2nd, let alone a 2nd at best.

But if not, just run with him as your starter and then re-evaluate later.

 

[nyr2k2]

I think Darnold could theoretically return a second and a fifth. Maybe it's just a second, or a second and a fifth but a sixth also going with him or something. Who knows, though. I feel like the NFL, more than any other league, you see trades that either make you say, "How is that all he returned?" or "How the hell did that guy get that much?" I have no real evidence to support this but it always feels like in the NFL deals are seen as blowouts one way or the other.

Basically I think Darnold goes for a 2+5 or for a 4.

 

[East Coast Bias]

No ones giving you a 1st for Darnold. He’s gonna need to be paid. You’re trading for a guy who needs to show something but you also can’t pay him like a rookie.

 

[17futurecap]

Disagree.
One the one hand, you are completely right, people want to buy low and sell high. Darnold, like everybody else, is more attractive at a bargain price, and the lower the price, the more the interest.

On the other hand, this is not a guy who was a complete bust and who has failed without any reason for it.
Jets were a shit show for most of the past 2 seasons and as is typical, he barely played his first year.

Depending on who wants/needs what = reward v risk, I think you see someone willing to add to a 2nd, let alone a 2nd at best.

But if not, just run with him as your starter and then re-evaluate later.

He started 13 games his rookie year lol.

 

[SA16]

We'll, until such point that defenses collectively scheme to reach that equilibrium, the equilibrium doesn't exist and teams and coaches will continue to prioritize LTs over RTs. Maybe you've identified some inefficiency in the way NFL teams operate. I don't see it but we know they exist. IDK.

But I think defenses have already decided this. There are articles from a few years ago showing that most of the best edge rushers play against the right tackle. Offenses/organizations seem like they aren't adjusting to this by investing more there. Instead they continue to invest and pay for LT because that's how it's always been.

 

[RangerBlues]

The most important person is the coach.
Douglas is gonna get to pick his QB and coach all at once

 

[nyr2k2]

But I think defenses have already decided this. There are articles from a few years ago showing that most of the best edge rushers play against the right tackle. Offenses/organizations seem like they aren't adjusting to this by investing more there. Instead they continue to invest and pay for LT because that's how it's always been.

Again--it would make sense that the top edge rusher would attack the tackle who is worse in pass protection. I don't think anyone disputes that.

The question is what ends up being more disruptive; because while defenses can scheme to attack the weaker tackle, offenses can scheme just the same through their use of different blocking schemes and packages. So it's not as simple as "putting your best EDGE guy against the RT to cause maximum disruption." Offenses may also scheme to try to have that pressure coming from the right.

I don't know. How teams line up is always going to be a tit-for-tat thing. I think generally speaking the modern LT is asked to play on an island more than the modern RT, and protection of the blind side is considered more important. It is what it is. I don't believe that the NFL, as backwards as it is, would be completely blind to this uncountered assault on the right side of offensive lines. I don't even really think this is an actual argument so I'm moving on.

 

[17futurecap]

Gase officially gone, he can't hurt us anymore.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Gase officially gone, he can't hurt us anymore.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

If they do trade Darnold hope they do it quickly and not like at the draft

The correct time would be when the new coach is hired. However, I suspect they will wait until the draft before pulling the trigger.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The Giants are done. The Eagles laid down like the dogs they are. I couldn't think of anything that would make me despise that franchise more.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

2 years too late

 

[Maximus]

2 years too late

Yup. Now that Gase is gone...halafriggenluja...I can sleep again. Now we need to get it right....VERY right.

We go either Joe Brady or Brian Dabol. We might not be able to wait tho for Dabol as Bills might be in for a long playoff run.

This coaching hire will determine the future of this team for the next decade as what we do at QB is reliant on whoever the coach is.

Chris Johnson...now get the F out of Joe Douglas's way...let him do his thing. Stay away...stay far far away.

This is crucial we get this right. Did I mention we need to get this coaching hire right? lol.

Oh and one last thing. Becton I love you bro but do what I suggested earlier this afternoon....lose some friggen weight. You can't play that heavy. Drop 40 pounds and I guarantee you'll stay on the field alot more. WE need you.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

That call on 4th and goal is why analytics shouldn't be used by an idiot. There are 10 seconds left in the game and you want to go for the win so that you don't have to go into OT, great. But they have a 5% higher probability of winning with that call in the 3rd quarter. Literally every call shifts the odds in every quarter. That said now that they're putting Nate Sudfield (sp?) in I think he just doing it to see how Hurts handles it.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Nate Sudfeld in the game. Lol

 

[bl02]

Yes they have to evaluate Nate “Tom Brady” Sudfeld. He is the future lol

 

[RangerBlues]

LOL! I love it. Gread dick move by the eagles,
Zero to be gained in winning. Losing and screwing the Giants is more fun.