OT: 2020 Football Thread: We Still Suck

[East Coast Bias]

We can get a T with the Seattle pick. Follow me to victory. (The PFF mock simulator is all kinds of fun)

 

[Maximus]

We can get a T with the Seattle pick. Follow me to victory. (The PFF mock simulator is all kinds of fun)

I've looked at 3 mock drafts by respected sites and Cosmi is picks 49,43 and 41. Now I respect PFF and they have helped me win a few fantasy titles in the past few years but taking Cosmi at 28 or so seems like a significant reach from what I'm seeing.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I've looked at 3 mock drafts by respected sites and Cosmi is picks 49,43 and 41. Now I respect PFF and they have helped me win a few fantasy titles in the past few years but taking Cosmi at 28 or so seems like a significant reach from what I'm seeing.

hes going 17th In their mock today. 4 tackles go in a row in that mock. 17-21. Could be the tackles are all gone by the Seattle pick.

They have Wilson to the Jets.

Lawrence, Wilson, Sewell, Fields, Chase top 5.

you could have a lot of teams bidding for 2 knowing the Dolphins will take Sewell at 3. But you can’t be thinking QB at that point cause it’s possible Atlanta takes their choice at 4

 

[NYSPORTS]

We can get a T with the Seattle pick. Follow me to victory. (The PFF mock simulator is all kinds of fun)

yeah, it had Sewell going to the Titans at 23rd overall. lol

 

[Maximus]

hes going 17th In their mock today. 4 tackles go in a row in that mock. 17-21. Could be the tackles are all gone by the Seattle pick.

They have Wilson to the Jets.

Lawrence, Wilson, Sewell, Fields, Chase top 5.

you could have a lot of teams bidding for 2 knowing the Dolphins will take Sewell at 3. But you can’t be thinking QB at that point cause it’s possible Atlanta takes their choice at 4

Wow 17? And yet these other sites have Cosmi going in the 40's. I dunno quite a disconnect there.

As far as this post, that is precisely why as I said previously, Douglass controls the draft. And if he uses some primo sales skills, faking and deking and making teams think he's zigging when he's zagging, he potentially really could create a bidding war between a few teams so much so that he possibly gets an RGIII type offer sent his way to switch places and move down in the draft.

Now I wouldn't move past 10 or so but if Joe D does in fact receive an offer like hypothetically a 2021 top 10 pick, a 2021 2nd rounder, a 1st in 2022 and a 2nd in 2022 or 2023, I don't know how he can possibly turn it down unless he somehow resists the temptation stays at 2 because he's so in love with Sewell which is the only pick you can make it 2 if your the Jets IMO.

 

[Maximus]

yeah, it had Sewell going to the Titans at 23rd overall. lol

HUH? That makes no sense at all. Cosmi ahead of Sewell...ummm me thinks NOT!!

 

[JimmyG89]

We can get a T with the Seattle pick. Follow me to victory. (The PFF mock simulator is all kinds of fun)

Definitely interesting, but I think they should be looking for a guard or an edge rusher with that Seattle pick. Jets guards are some of the worst in the league. Fant is serviceable for another year at RT if you are not taking Sewell. Also, lots of WRs will be there with their 2nd or that late 1st. If he slides, Amon-Ra St. Brown is someone I would target with the 34th pick. There is a lot to his game to like on the outside. Vera-Tucker is another guy that would be great to snag with Seattle's pick. He's a guard, but has versatility and could jump out to tackle if needed.

 

[NYSPORTS]

HUH? That makes no sense at all. Cosmi ahead of Sewell...ummm me thinks NOT!!

well, that was what the PFF simulator came up with.

If that isn’t strange, check this out, the NHL draft simulator had the Rangers jumping to #1 and getting Lafreniere lol

LGR!!!!

 

[Maximus]

well, that was what the PFF simulator came up with.

If that isn’t strange, check this out, the NHL draft simulator had the Rangers jumping to #1 and getting Lafreniere lol

LGR!!!!

Huh? I dunno about this PFF simulator. Seems like it's broken and needs to be fixed...lol

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

Doubt dumb Dave Gettleman , who spends and wastes cap space like a drunken sailor, is back and i can’t see how anybody would trade a #2 for Engram. The DL has three players and two are free agents while he has so/so cap space b/c he still has:

- Nate Solder making $16.5 million which is yet another $10 million in dead money if cut
- Golden Tate making $10.8 million which is yet another $4.7 million in dead money if cut
- Zeitler is making $14.5 million so he can’t cut him being Hernandez isn’t playing well.
- Awesome Shepherd is a making $9 million
- Barkley is north of $10 million for a HB and it’s already time to flex that 5th year option to skyrocket his cap hit
- yet both DL Tomlinson and Williams are free agents and going to cost a fortune

It’s the NFL and the team has 5 wins. Playing hard and losing is NOT enough to keep Dumb Dave Gettleman around b/c he gutted the team of talent and wrecked their cap with his directionless management.

Engram despite what you think has been in demand at the trade deadline every year. So despite what Giants fans think of him, other GM's and coaches don't share that view.

Gettleman actually drafts players that play. Unlike Reese. For starters, there is no way they are keeping Zeiter. He will be 12 million of the cap. He's gone. They could get a pick for him as well. They have to pay their DL and then take a couple OL guys later in the draft. Tate is gone which saves about 6 million. Solder I'm not sure about this year. They could move him to guard for one year. Also, most of what you said about Gettleman is totally false. He doesn't spend and waste cap space like a drunken sailor. Total lie. He didn't even use all of his cap space last year. He had to use some on Ryan after the Baker deal and Beal opted out. He traded for Williams which people destroyed him for and he should have made the pro-bowl this year. Signed Bradberry who made the PB. Martinez who played at PB level. He brought in Gano who should have easily made the PB this year to replace our previous idiot kicker. Do some research. The Giants have plenty of cap room next year. It's a non issue. If you call the GM dumb, actually get your facts straight. The Giants are in good shape with the cap. Next year they can loose 20 million in cap by getting rid of Solder and Sheppard.

Gettleman is going nowhere so stop wasting your breath.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Engram despite what you think has been in demand at the trade deadline every year. So despite what Giants fans think of him, other GM's and coaches don't share that view.

Gettleman actually drafts players that play. Unlike Reese. For starters, there is no way they are keeping Zeiter. He will be 12 million of the cap. He's gone. They could get a pick for him as well. They have to pay their DL and then take a couple OL guys later in the draft. Tate is gone which saves about 6 million. Solder I'm not sure about this year. They could move him to guard for one year. Also, most of what you said about Gettleman is totally false. He doesn't spend and waste cap space like a drunken sailor. Total lie. He didn't even use all of his cap space last year. He had to use some on Ryan after the Baker deal and Beal opted out. He traded for Williams which people destroyed him for and he should have made the pro-bowl this year. Signed Bradberry who made the PB. Martinez who played at PB level. He brought in Gano who should have easily made the PB this year to replace our previous idiot kicker. Do some research. The Giants have plenty of cap room next year. It's a non issue. If you call the GM dumb, actually get your facts straight. The Giants are in good shape with the cap. Next year they can loose 20 million in cap by getting rid of Solder and Sheppard.

Gettleman is going nowhere so stop wasting your breath.

what offers for Engram? The same Dumb Dave received for Collins who he didn’t move? Where are the picks? From the media?

Zeiter at $12 million is NOT getting you a draft choice. Teams sign players like Zeiter on the open market for much less.

Solder is NOT moving to Guard either. As a bonus the Giants can get another $10 million in dead money by parting ways with him.

The Giants dead money proves Gettleman spends like a drunken sailor as the Giants were:
2018 - $25 million in dead money which was 3rd worst in the league
2019 - $34 million which was worst in the league plus Eli Manning’s salary as he rode the bench brings the total dead money to $57 million. The Jags were 2nd worst at $22 million
2020 - another $19 million in dead money

As far as draft picks. Who starts? Giants have so little talent some are forced to be rotational. And we wonder why Gettleman’s record is 12-34 with only 5 wins this season?

2018
#1 Barkley - great player, gets hurt and value analysis doesn’t add up.
#2 Hernandez - he’s been mediocre and how are you going to move Zeiter when Hernandez is a question mark?
#3 Carter - nothing
#3 Hill - a backup thanks to trading for Williams who costed more than money
#5 Lauletta - gone
#6 McIntosh - nothing

2019
#1 Jones - Gettleman spent more resources scouting Herbert and never sent a scout to watch Jones. We’re not even sure if he is the answer. One read and a so/so arm.
#1Lawrence - finally a hit
#1Baker - gone and cost 3 picks to get him
#3 Ximines - nothing
#4 Love - rotational
#5. Connelly - TBD
#6 Ballentine - rotational
#7 Adjei - stop
#7 Slayton - a hit slot receiver yet Gettleman paid $41 million for Shep who is a slot receiver

2020
#1 Thomas - #4 overall is struggling while the Jets obviously got the better player
#2 McKinney - hurt but nothing
#3 Peart - gave up 3 straight sacks last week. He’s not ready but, of course, he’s forced out there b/c the team has no talent
#4 -Holmes - nothing
#5 Lemiuex - terrible technique and forced out there. I like him but he’s not ready and may never be
#6 Brown- nothing
#7 Coughlin, Brunson, Williamson and Crowder - nothing yet understandable


Basically you have 22 draft choices in which you got
#1 Lawrence and #7 Slayton as your hits with Jones, Hernandez and Barkley as so/so with a few rotational players and misses.

That’s how you get 5 wins and a 12-34 record with almost $100 million in dead money over 3 years.

How is that research? Save your breath defending Gettleman b/c if remains the Giants will be picking in the top 5 next year again. He should be gone.

 

[bernmeister]

The 49ers can just cut Garapolo during the offseason and it'll cost them 2.8M on the cap. That number is exactly the same if he is included in a trade, so I don't think there is anything there for adding him to a deal for purposes of saving against the cap.

This is a brutal trade for them on all ends. The 49ers would not be adding to this deal, the Jets would be to get back up to 14. If they want Darnold that bad, I could see Darnold + Jets 2nd (34th overall) for 15 (which is where they are now after NE lost last night). I'd say Darnold has the value of a 2nd rounder at this point, especially if the team really wants him. They might even need to add in something else, possibly something around a 4th or 5th rounder to even the deal as well.

That said, that trade is probably to expansive to be something that happens. If Darnold is moved, I would think it is just a straight swap for pick(s). Just looking at teams that could be in the market for him, SF (46), Dallas (47, if Dak is let go), Indy (50), Washington (51) and Pittsburgh (60) are the 2nd rounders that could be out there. With Pittsburgh, if they are not a 1 and done team and make it to the divisional round and lose, I could see where that 1st rounder would be open for discussion, if the Jets add in a 3rd rounder.

thanks for solid reply

disagree value of Darnold is a 2nd at this pt.
I concur w/your assessment of Gar. a candidate to be cut outright.

I remain emphatically opposed to trading 2OA [Sewell].

I am leaning to keeping Darnold and getting production/upping his value, UNLESS someone who recognizes his potential and wants him pass enough. Enough doesn't equate to 3OA, but Sam has played well enough the few times he actually had enough weapons/support he can be a discounted blue chip to the right team.

I'd like to see about getting another big OT, young like McG from SF. Take Jimmy G out. Darnold + Sea 1st for McG + SF 1st. Maybe NY adds a 2nd, Frisco adds a 3rd?

 

[Maximus]

This is friggen hilarious. Not sure all of you saw this play yesterday but Sam deserves too come back one more year just for this...lol

 

[NYSPORTS]

thanks for solid reply

disagree value of Darnold is a 2nd at this pt.
I concur w/your assessment of Gar. a candidate to be cut outright.

I remain emphatically opposed to trading 2OA [Sewell].

I am leaning to keeping Darnold and getting production/upping his value, UNLESS someone who recognizes his potential and wants him pass enough. Enough doesn't equate to 3OA, but Sam has played well enough the few times he actually had enough weapons/support he can be a discounted blue chip to the right team.

I'd like to see about getting another big OT, young like McG from SF. Take Jimmy G out. Darnold + Sea 1st for McG + SF 1st. Maybe NY adds a 2nd, Frisco adds a 3rd?

Crazy to think a short four years after the draft both Darnold USC and Rosen UCLA are 49ers (Rosen is on their roster today)

 

[NYSPORTS]

This is friggen hilarious. Not sure all of you saw this play yesterday but Sam deserves too come back one more year just for this...lol

Should have Kim Jones, the biggest Penn State Barkley cheerleader, show Barkley the Sam video displaying how to run North/South. Lol

thank goodness for the Rangers

 

[nyr2k2]

This is friggen hilarious. Not sure all of you saw this play yesterday but Sam deserves too come back one more year just for this...lol

He has the arm to make all the throws. He can extend plays and make things happen with his legs. It's between his ears. He has never really had much to work with and has had poor protection, which I think really stunted his ability to develop into what he could have been. He isn't one of those generational talents who can rise above a total lack of talent and carry the team, but I firmly believe that if he had proper coaching and at least average line and WR play, we probably wouldn't be having a discussion about moving on from him.

I think of it went right for him he'd be a guy who completed ~65% of his passes, and would go for like 25 TDs and 12 INTs over 3500+ yards. Not a world beater, but a guy who at 23 you still saw having upside to step up another level. Based of his play last year I think that was all reasonable.

Instead, you had this team. He regressed.

 

[NYSPORTS]

He has the arm to make all the throws. He can extend plays and make things happen with his legs. It's between his ears. He has never really had much to work with and has had poor protection, which I think really stunted his ability to develop into what he could have been. He isn't one of those generational talents who can rise above a total lack of talent and carry the team, but I firmly believe that if he had proper coaching and at least average line and WR play, we probably wouldn't be having a discussion about moving on from him.

I think of it went right for him he'd be a guy who completed ~65% of his passes, and would go for like 25 TDs and 12 INTs over 3500+ yards. Not a world beater, but a guy who at 23 you still saw having upside to step up another level. Based of his play last year I think that was all reasonable.

Instead, you had this team. He regressed.

he looks the same as he did at USC IMO. He could have benefitted from one more year of college. I agree, the issues are between his ears. Moving forward, i think he can still have a very good career and believe he has a Big Ben upside.

 

[nyr2k2]

he looks the same as he did at USC IMO. He could have benefitted from one more year of college. I agree, the issues are between his ears. Moving forward, i think he can still have a very good career and believe he has a Big Ben upside.

Yeah, he was too young and too raw coming out of college. One real season isn't enough, IMO, to step right into the NFL. He really needed to sit a full season, get the practice reps, learn, listen, watch. Unfortunately the Jets are a nightmare of a franchise desperate for a savior so everyone knew he was the guy from day one.

Inexperienced guys like him need time to sit. Not that their situations are totally comparable as Haskins has some general mental maturity issues as well, but he was another young guy who should not have seen a snap his first season and probably shouldn't have played this year, either.

Those really green guys, you need to give them at least a year to sit. I mean ideally you have an Aaron Rodgers situation but not many teams are that fortunate. The principle applies, though.

 

[Maximus]

he looks the same as he did at USC IMO. He could have benefitted from one more year of college. I agree, the issues are between his ears. Moving forward, i think he can still have a very good career and believe he has a Big Ben upside.

Brainstorm alert...danger danger Will Robinson when that happens...lol

Let's keep Sam for one more year and lets bring Tavon Smith over here too take over after that.

Saints would still have Winston to take over for Brees whenever that time comes.

He'd be alot cheaper and Smith does have some Big Ben type qualities to him....hmmmmmmmm

 

[NYSPORTS]

Yeah, he was too young and too raw coming out of college. One real season isn't enough, IMO, to step right into the NFL. He really needed to sit a full season, get the practice reps, learn, listen, watch. Unfortunately the Jets are a nightmare of a franchise desperate for a savior so everyone knew he was the guy from day one.

Inexperienced guys like him need time to sit. Not that their situations are totally comparable as Haskins has some general mental maturity issues as well, but he was another young guy who should not have seen a snap his first season and probably shouldn't have played this year, either.

Those really green guys, you need to give them at least a year to sit. I mean ideally you have an Aaron Rodgers situation but not many teams are that fortunate. The principle applies, though.

he’s still standing and that’s what i like about him. We have heard no complaining from Sam. How would others have handled this situation? Would Baker Mayfield have handled it better? Could Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson or Kyler Murray done more? What is the current address for Josh Rosen (SF)? How is Wentz handling things in Philly? Dwayne Haskins is apparently searching to find himself. Meanwhile, Darnold just goes to work. I like his demeanor.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Brainstorm alert...danger danger Will Robinson when that happens...lol

Let's keep Sam for one more year and lets bring Tavon Smith over here too take over after that.

Saints would still have Winston to take over for Brees whenever that time comes.

He'd be alot cheaper and Smith does have some Big Ben type qualities to him....hmmmmmmmm

Sam is one year younger than Ben. TD and Int’s over their first 3 years while Ben had a loaded roster

Ben’s first 3 years with a loaded roster 52TD and 43 int
Darnold with nothing for 3 years 44 TD and 37 int

Did you know Eli Manning only played 7 games at age 23 which is Sam’s age? Eli’s next 3 years he had 71TD and 55 int

 

[SA16]

Sam is one year younger than Ben. TD and Int’s over their first 3 years while Ben had a loaded roster

Ben’s first 3 years with a loaded roster 52TD and 43 int
Darnold with nothing for 3 years 44 TD and 37 int

Did you know Eli Manning only played 7 games at age 23 which is Sam’s age? Eli’s next 3 years he had 71TD and 55 int

Vastly different era in the NFL in 2005 and 2020. 2005 had two 4000 yard passers and 14 3000 yard passers. Only one QB had 30 TD passes. 2019 had 11 4000 yard passers, 25 3000 yard passers, and 4 QB over 30. Sam putting up similar numbers to QBs 15 years ago means his performance is vastly worse relative to the league.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Vastly different era in the NFL in 2005 and 2020. 2005 had two 4000 yard passers and 14 3000 yard passers. Only one QB had 30 TD passes. 2019 had 11 4000 yard passers, 25 3000 yard passers, and 4 QB over 30. Sam putting up similar numbers to QBs 15 years ago means his performance is vastly worse relative to the league.

and i knew somebody would say that.

put Darnold back in 2005 with Tiki Barber, Jeremy Shockey, Plaxico Burress and Amani Toomer. By all means, give Darnold to another team being you’re so certain.

 

[SA16]

and i knew somebody would say that.

put Darnold back in 2005 with Tiki Barber, Jeremy Shockey, Plaxico Burress and Amani Toomer. By all means, give Darnold to another team being you’re so certain.

I have no idea what you're talking about. If Ben and Sam had the exact same stats and one player did in 2005 and one in 2020 the player who did it in 2005 had a vastly better season. There's no comparison. It's like comparing hockey stats today to those form the 80s.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Carton is on the FAN now saying he has a source that says Gase was told by Chris Johnson today that he’s done after this season