OT: 2020 Football Thread: We All Suck

[SnowblindNYR]

I think that tweet sums up my feelings on the Giants season pretty perfectly.

I don't see them firing Gettleman even if they miss the playoffs unless they go 0-5 or 1-4. If Jones is healthy I doubt that happens.

 

[ponzu4u]

Going on about the Saquon pick is tired news. It was him or Darnold. You can argue it all you want, but nobody was telling the Giants to forego Saquon for anyone else except Darnold. The narrative would be that Gettleman made a bad pick at #2 if they had Darnold instead.

Except for all the people advocating the Giants trade back to build up assets to help rebuild a team with massive holes. But Gettleman has never traded back in the draft in his entire career - what an awesome trademark for a GM to have.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Except for all the people advocating the Giants trade back to build up assets to help rebuild a team with massive holes. But Gettleman has never traded back in the draft in his entire career - what an awesome trademark for a GM to have.

I don't remember were there offers on the table?

 

[ponzu4u]

I don't remember were there offers on the table?

To be fair I have no idea. I tend not to trust what ends up getting "leaked" to the media when it comes to these type of things.

And just to show that I'm willing to give credit where it's due -- the Blake Martinez, Bradberry and Logan Ryan signings have been incredible. Love all three of those players.

 

[SA16]

Saquon was a bad draft pick.
Darnold was a good draft pick but the trade up for him was bad.
Jones was a fine draft pick even if it was a reach due to the importance of his position.

For reference here are top 10 RBs the last 10 years. Essentially zero of them have worked out long term. Even if Elliott does he won't be good value due to his insane contract. I've said it before. Barkley can literally turn into a hall of fame RB and I would still consider it a bad pick in hindsight because the RB impact is too low. In fact it's likely a negative because if you are good on your rookie deal and get paid like Elliott you will just provide negative value on the next contract.

1. C.J. Spiller - 5 years with the team that drafted him. Never really a full time starter
2. Trent Richardson - Disaster
3. Todd Gurley - 5 years with the team that drafted him, two great years, signed a huge contract before year 4, then got cut, has bad knees, and has been bad the last two years
4. Ezekiel Elliott - 5+ years with the team that drafted him. Has been a very good workhorse...got massively overpaid and has done nothing this year now that DAL QB/OL are injured
5. Leonard Fournette - Bust. Already on his 2nd team in year 4.
6. Christian McCaffery - Great year 2 and 3, now has a huge contract, and has been hurt this year.
7. Barkley - Will be a similar situation to CMC.

As far as I can tell there have only been 2 RB in the top 10 to work out since 2000 (and the game was very different in the early 2000's where workhorse RB were more valuable and rules didn't change to favor the passing game not to mention changes to contract structures) and that was Adrian Peterson and LaDainian Tomlinson

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Saquon was a bad draft pick.
Darnold was a good draft pick but the trade up for him was bad.
Jones was a fine draft pick even if it was a reach due to the importance of his position.

For reference here are top 10 RBs the last 10 years. Essentially zero of them have worked out long term. Even if Elliott does he won't be good value due to his insane contract. I've said it before. Barkley can literally turn into a hall of fame RB and I would still consider it a bad pick in hindsight because the RB impact is too low. In fact it's likely a negative because if you are good on your rookie deal and get paid like Elliott you will just provide negative value on the next contract.

1. C.J. Spiller - 5 years with the team that drafted him. Never really a full time starter
2. Trent Richardson - Disaster
3. Todd Gurley - 5 years with the team that drafted him, two great years, signed a huge contract before year 4, then got cut, has bad knees, and has been bad the last two years
4. Ezekiel Elliott - 5+ years with the team that drafted him. Has been a very good workhorse...got massively overpaid and has done nothing this year now that DAL QB/OL are injured
5. Leonard Fournette - Bust. Already on his 2nd team in year 4.
6. Christian McCaffery - Great year 2 and 3, now has a huge contract, and has been hurt this year.
7. Barkley - Will be a similar situation to CMC.

As far as I can tell there have only been 2 RB in the top 10 to work out since 2000 (and the game was very different in the early 2000's where workhorse RB were more valuable and rules didn't change to favor the passing game not to mention changes to contract structures) and that was Adrian Peterson and LaDainian Tomlinson

I notice you're not incorporating hindsight at all. If we just judge players by positional value and what we read online about their value, what's the point of having GMs?

 

[SA16]

I notice you're not incorporating hindsight at all. If we just judge players by positional value and what we read online about their value, what's the point of having GMs?

I don't understand your post. All 7 top 10 RBs were bad picks at the time and then using hindsight I would say none of the 7 have been the right pick for their teams either. The ones that seem to (CMC) are way too early to tell and can easily flame out as that's already happened with Gurley. Zeke was good when he had a QB/Oline now that he has neither he looks like your standard pedestrian RB. You've basically had 2 early RB picks work out long term for their team in 20 years. And I mean...I'd say Gettleman did a pretty good job going with Jones over Haskins when he decided he wanted a QB, no? And maybe he did a bad job deciding between Becton/Thomas/Wills/Wirfs, maybe he didn't, it's too early to say.

 

[Bob Richards]

Eagles doing Eagles things means Giants maintain their division lead.

 

[sbjnyc]

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Gettleman deserves credit. He has been ripped mercilessly, but the team is on the rise.

First and foremost, Joe Judge appears to have gotten this team to be competitive and play hard. I was certainly suspect about it after the first 3 or 4 games. Not any more. Good hire.

He got ripped for Barkley over Darnold. Darnold sucks. Josh Allen was never going to be a guy taken at #2. Reading stuff like that is nonsense. The better pick here was probably Quenton Nelson. That would have taken some serious balls and I don't blame Gettleman for not doing it.

He got ripped for Jones over Haskins (or a non-QB in DE Josh Allen). Jury still out here, but I have confidence in Jones at QB. He is certainly a clear cut better option moving forward than Haskins. And I'm glad to have a promising QB rather than Allen.

He got ripped for trading Beckham. This one is great. I loved it the minute it happened. Love it even more. Peppers is great. Let's not forget they got a 1st round pick in that deal as well. That turned out to be Dexter Lawrence and he has been good too. Easy win in this trade and it's not even close.

He got ripped for letting Landon Collins go. We don't miss him whatsoever. Peppers has elevated to a level above Collins this year to be honest.

He got ripped for the Leonard Williams trade. LW has been an absolute monster. Worth the pick. Worth the franchise tag. He is still young, now showing what he's capable of, and I hope they can hold onto him.

He started getting ripped for Andrew Thomas after a rough start when the Giants were facing off against top 5 DLs in the league. Now he is settling in and playing well. Crickets from the Gettleman-trashing squad.

Credit where credit is due. Of course, the Gettleman haters will be put in a precarious position of admitting that on some level he isn't a trash bag of a GM and he does have a good idea of what he's doing.

Oh, God. Give me a break.

The team is four and f***ing seven. It is a dumpster fire. The only reason this team is "on the rise" is because the division is so f***ing bad it's not even funny.

On what planet is Peppers great? He's a bit below Landon Collins but just cheaper. Collins has been trending down. No one ripped him really for letting Collins go. He was ripped for not trading Collins. And rightfully so. Peppers is average at the very best.

The LW trade was f***ing garbage. The Jets were desperate to trade him. We could have had him for free in the offseason and he would've likely signed a pretty cheap deal with how mediocre he was.

Your whole post is laughable. And why are you giving Gettleman any credit for the coach? Gettleman threw Shurmur under the bus and basically said he had no say in coaching. You cannot, then, give him any credit for Judge.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Oh, God. Give me a break.

The team is four and f***ing seven. It is a dumpster fire. The only reason this team is "on the rise" is because the division is so f***ing bad it's not even funny.

On what planet is Peppers great? He's a bit below Landon Collins but just cheaper. Collins has been trending down. No one ripped him really for letting Collins go. He was ripped for not trading Collins. And rightfully so. Peppers is average at the very best.

The LW trade was f***ing garbage. The Jets were desperate to trade him. We could have had him for free in the offseason and he would've likely signed a pretty cheap deal with how mediocre he was.

Your whole post is laughable. And why are you giving Gettleman any credit for the coach? Gettleman threw Shurmur under the bus and basically said he had no say in coaching. You cannot, then, give him any credit for Judge.

Before the season we would have signed up for 6-10 and improving. It's likely where we're headed, division win or not.

And how do you know if we didn't trade for LW that we would have signed him?

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Before the season we would have signed up for 6-10 and improving. It's likely where we're headed, division win or not.

And how do you know if we didn't trade for LW that we would have signed him?

Who else was after LW who had cap space? We traded a third round pick for a guy we could've had for free. I'm sorry, but I'd fire the clown for that move alone. It was hilariously bad asset management.

I would not have signed up for 6-10. That barely moves the needle. Especially when our "GOLD JACKET SUPASTAH" is once again injured (and played like ass before he was injured).

The only reason this team is even competing is due to coaching. And Gettleman indicated to everyone last year that he had zero say in coaching when he tried to save his sorry ass job by throwing Shurmur under the bus. So, as much as I hate Mara, I give all credit to Mara for that and none to Gettleman.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

By the way, the Eagles are going to be hilariously bad for a while.

$65+M over the cap next year.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Who else was after LW who had cap space? We traded a third round pick for a guy we could've had for free. I'm sorry, but I'd fire the clown for that move alone. It was hilariously bad asset management.

I would not have signed up for 6-10. That barely moves the needle. Especially when our "GOLD JACKET SUPASTAH" is once again injured (and played like ass before he was injured).

The only reason this team is even competing is due to coaching. And Gettleman indicated to everyone last year that he had zero say in coaching when he tried to save his sorry ass job by throwing Shurmur under the bus. So, as much as I hate Mara, I give all credit to Mara for that and none to Gettleman.

If you were expecting something significantly better than 6-10 that's on you.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

People still whining about LW even while he's been one of our two best defenders and not giving him credit for his good FA signings and drafts clearly have an agenda.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Also, the Rangers paid a premium for Fox when they could have had him for nothing the following season. Yet that gets praised and LW get criticized.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

If you were expecting something significantly better than 6-10 that's on you.

I was expecting between 4 and 6 wins because the team is and was a f***ing dumpster fire. This disaster of a roster is exactly as I expected it would be. I predicted 5 wins.

Please feel free to be accepting of mediocrity and downright garbage, though. That's on you.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I was expecting between 4 and 6 wins because the team is and was a f***ing dumpster fire. This disaster of a roster is exactly as I expected it would be. I predicted 5 wins.

Please feel free to be accepting of mediocrity and downright garbage, though. That's on you.

This team is more promising than the 2016 that was better. Because we actually have youth and a HC. Explain to me how LW was a terrible trade, but Adam Fox was a great trade. And if DG sucks so much why do you want him making those draft picks anyway?

 

[Hunter Gathers]

People still whining about LW even while he's been one of our two best defenders and not giving him credit for his good FA signings and drafts clearly have an agenda.

What are the good FA classes? This year is the first year I've been remotely impressed with the pro football moves and it seems to be only because we had boatloads of cash to spend. The 2019 free agent class was hot garbage save for Markus Golden. But Golden was only good because he was our only option. He's done nothing when being a guy teams focus on. Tate was a trash signing at the time and thank GOD the clown was a PED user so we can void the rest of the contract after this season when we cut him. The 2018 class was a disaster. The Solder contract was terrible at the time. It's even more terrible now that we have his contract toll since we cannot cut him after this year. I was praying he'd opt in only so we could jettison his awful contract after this season. Omameh was cut during the year. Jonathan Stewart? LOL.

He has had a single good FA class.

Like FA classes, we only have three drafts. What drafts are "good"? What are you even defining as good? I'll never kill someone over a first year class, so I won't even go into 2020. I actually see 2020 as something similar to 2018 right now where we had good initial play but I want to see more since 2018 all of a sudden looks like an epic failure of a class.

2019 you have a 1st rounder already off the roster. Ximines looks like a back-up. Love has been bad (his PFF score confirms that one). Connelly is off the team. Ballentine is off the team. The two 7th rounders are off the team. We had 3 first round picks and it looks like we have 2 NFLers. And then you have Slayton who looks like a solid #2/3 WR. Any GM should be able to hit on 3 first rounders, frankly. I like the Jones pick and I have really come around on that on and have defended him from criticism as I've seen improvement.

2018 is looking like a disaster. Barkley was an awful pick from the beginning. Not only has Barkley been injured for 2/3 of his career so far, but he was looking ineffective last year before injury and this year before injury. Hernandez may be a cut candidate and has played himself onto the bench. Carter was looking like a solid starter before injury. BJ Hill is a good playing back-up that outplayed LW last year (but has been relegated to the bench since we have too much f***ing interior depth). The problem with Hill is that while he is a solid pick, awful asset management has relegated him to a bench role. Lauletta and McIntosh are both terrible.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

This team is more promising than the 2016 that was better. Because we actually have youth and a HC. Explain to me how LW was a terrible trade, but Adam Fox was a great trade. And if DG sucks so much why do you want him making those draft picks anyway?

Adam Fox was a trade for the future. LW was a trade to try and f***ing compete in a year that was clearly lost. It made no sense to trade a very high 3rd round pick for Williams in a year that we were, once again, awful. The two trades were made for the complete opposite reasons. To even compare them is absurd.

What a ridiculous question to end your post with as well. Even if DG's drafts leave a lot to be desired, I'd much rather have more shots at the dart board than less.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Adam Fox was a trade for the future. LW was a trade to try and f***ing compete in a year that was clearly lost. It made no sense to trade a very high 3rd round pick for Williams in a year that we were, once again, awful. The two trades were made for the complete opposite reasons. To even compare them is absurd.

What a ridiculous question to end your post with as well. Even if DG's drafts leave a lot to be desired, I'd much rather have more shots at the dart board than less.

I forgot that LW was 35 years old. Seriously, can you show on this doll where DG hurt you?

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I forgot that LW was 35 years old. Seriously, can you show on this doll where DG hurt you?

Why are you so accepting of mediocrity? You're like the same group that kept defending 8-8 and 9-7 seasons year after year. It's hilarious just how low the bar is for you for "success".

Also, the idea that a player in the NFL (especially an interior defender) should only be considered "old" at 35 shows a fundamental misunderstanding of football in general.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

People still whining about LW even while he's been one of our two best defenders and not giving him credit for his good FA signings and drafts clearly have an agenda.

Martinez and Bradberry have clearly been better, IMO. LW also plays a position we have depth at, whereas Martinez and Bradberry are pretty much it at their respective positions.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Martinez and Bradberry have clearly been better, IMO. LW also plays a position we have depth at, whereas Martinez and Bradberry are pretty much it at their respective positions.

I was thinking Bradberry, but either way he's our best pass rusher and he comes from the middle which is a pain in the ass for a QB.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

I was thinking Bradberry, but either way he's our best pass rusher and he comes from the middle which is a pain in the ass for a QB.

I'm personally "meh" on that trade in hindsight, but it's frustrating to have a GM pour so much draft capital into the interior of the DL when we have so many other needs.