OT: 2020 Football Thread: We All Suck

[Oscar Lindberg]

it’s not clear why a person who isn’t a football fan could make such a comment.

I don’t need to be a football fan to know

A) the Jets are clearly tanking for a generational quarterback prospect and

B) Sam Darnold will clearly be gone if they manage to get said generational quarterback prospect

 

[Maximus]

too much to sift through yet IMO Archie didn’t want Eli in the same position he was in for his entire career. Archie Manning was a good QB stuck with a miserable New Orleans team his whole career.

Well Mikey, that's kind of why I don't think it's a sure thing Lawrence comes out if it's the Jets who own the #1 overall....sincerely the Dog!

 

[Maximus]

I don’t need to be a football fan to know

A) the Jets are clearly tanking for a generational quarterback prospect and

B) Sam Darnold will clearly be gone if they manage to get said generational quarterback prospect

I'll add:

C) If Sam goes which I hope he won't but if he goes, Darnold will become a stud and the QB we thought we drafted....bank on it!

 

[NYSPORTS]

Well Mikey, that's kind of why I don't think it's a sure thing Lawrence comes out if it's the Jets who own the #1 overall....sincerely the Dog!

Lawrence should want no part of either NY team.

 

[NYSPORTS]

I don’t need to be a football fan to know

A) the Jets are clearly tanking for a generational quarterback prospect and

B) Sam Darnold will clearly be gone if they manage to get said generational quarterback prospect

A - you’re wrong

B - he might

 

[Maximus]

Lawrence should want no part of either NY team.

I'm with ya. And that is why if Douglass gets this impression by time of next year's draft, he has to look at the best possible haul he could get for the #1 overall.

 

[NYSPORTS]

I'm with ya. And that is why if Douglass gets this impression by time of next year's draft, he has to look at the best possible haul he could get for the #1 overall.

disagree - you draft the kid.

you will never get the better return. Neither ny team has demonstrated their draft rooms have any clue. The Giants draft room changes are off the charts crazy and reek of nepotism. Good lord, Chris Mara calls in his vote from a horse track to his nephew who shares.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

The Jets, as bad as they've been since the end of the Rex Ryan era, aren't like a three-win team every year. Lawrence would be old enough to remember them in back-to-back AFC Championship games. They were .500 or better 8 times in a 10 year stretch and made the playoffs six times. That's not some amazing accomplishment but there are plenty of teams who won't do that in that time period.

The past decade, which Lawrence will of course remember, has obviously been terrible. But, if you're Douglas, you try to sell him on the fact that a) New York, b) you have a long-term plan for success which began last year with a housecleaning, c) your owner has been supportive of players (CJ has been) and is also willing to spend, and d) your new coach is young, smart, and can really design an offense. That's not to say it's an easy sell, but the whole "Siberia" thing is obvious hyperbole. You've got teams like Cleveland, Washington, Detroit, et al, that have been even worse over the past couple decades. You could hold out to avoid NYJ and end up in an even worse spot.

yes Jets being worse than Siberia is obvious hyperbole lol

That said, what are the worse spots than the Jets? Honestly? Their roster is probably the worst I’ve ever seen, and their offensive line is one of the weakest links on a team that only has weak links.

Washington has been a f***ing train wreck but you can see the potential of that team right now. They have an elite DL, a well respected coach, and some pieces on offense, particularly McClaurin who is massively underrated.

Detroit? Definitely not a plus destination, but they have way more talent to work with on offense than the Jets. Hockenson is a monster and Golladay/Jones Jr is a solid 1/2 punch at wideout. And their offensive line isn’t great but it won’t get him killed.

Denver? Elway is trash but they have a smorgasbord of weapons on offense; Jeudy, Sutton, Fant, Lindsay, though their OL is really bad.

Atlanta? Again, talent on offense in Ridley and Julio and an OL that won’t get him killed immediately. Also, that team has talent throughout the roster, they’ve just desperately needed a coaching change.

the only team whose situation is comparably awful is the Giants IMO. Both teams have gaping holes at nearly every position.

like i said, I don’t think he’s actually going to avoid going to a New York team, but I would argue it’s the worst situation a young QB will have been drafted into since...probably Andrew Luck. And we saw what happened to him.

personally, if I were Lawerence, I’d much rather be drafted by a Detroit or Washington

 

[NYSPORTS]

personally, if I were Lawerence, I’d much rather be drafted by a Detroit or Washington

Washington has been the least stable org in the NFL.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Here's the thing and why I'm torn as to what to do even if we get the #1 overall and even if Lawrence comes out of school which I'm still not convinced he 100% will if it's the Jets who have the #1 overall. But let's say for arguments sake Lawrence comes out and Jets have #1 overall.

Why are we to believe that if we select Lawrence withought a competent O-Line and weapons which are below par at best, that he'll do much better than Sam has?

Also this means we would be dealing Sam. I've read and heard comments that we should be able to get a late 1st round pick for him. But wouldn't that mean his play warrants a 1st round pick? If the perception is Sam warrants a 1st round pick in return, why the f*** would we trade him?

Which leads me once again to the conundrum I have going on in my head. We I believe already have 4 or 5 1st and 2nd round picks in the next draft. What could we get if we dealt the #1 overall pick? Probably a ton...yes? These additional #1 and #2 round picks we could get would be additional ammo to build around Sam.

The only thing that is somewhat of a negative here is we need to pay Sam 15-20 mill per for his next contract. But if we trust Douglass and I do, with all this draft capital and a shit ton of cap space to go after, Darnold within a year or two at most woulld have a competent O-line where he wouldn't be running for his life and would be able to make more than one read. He'd have solid weapons who can create separation to throw the ball too. And we'd be able to build up the defense so that that we could have a better handle on field position.

The main benefit I see in taking Lawrence is we get to do a reset as he'd be on a rookie contract. But he'd still be dealing with alot of the shit Sam has been dealing with. I dunno, it's a close call but right now I'd lean towards keeping Sam, pay him hopefully a fair amount for his 2nd contract and build a f'n wall around him with all the assets we had. That to me seems the quickest and most effective way for the Jets to get back to not only relevance but to be competitive for the playoffs. Oh I forgot...Gase would be gone which is huge!

I know I'm probably on an island here with alot of gorgeous Tahitian woman btw and everyone thinks Lawrence is the cat's meow but F it...I'm used to it and that's fine with me. I still believe in Sam and not ready to give up on him especially if the moves I've discussed happen which they should be able to.

I'm in the trade down if we get 1oa, get a haul beyond what rg3 got. Douglass with 3 - 4 firsts this coming draft, plus more coming is enough to build a legit team around darnold. Very much reminds me of what gorton did with the rangers.

 

[Bob Richards]

Giving big contracts to RBs is a bad idea.

Take notes, Giants!!!

 

[Baby Duck Homme]

Jets are not tanking on purpose. This is not a trust the process situation. It is organizational ineptitude. There is no plan. Just a bad team that is managed poorly with absent ownership.

 

[nyr2k2]

yes Jets being worse than Siberia is obvious hyperbole lol

That said, what are the worse spots than the Jets? Honestly? Their roster is probably the worst I’ve ever seen, and their offensive line is one of the weakest links on a team that only has weak links.

Washington has been a f***ing train wreck but you can see the potential of that team right now. They have an elite DL, a well respected coach, and some pieces on offense, particularly McClaurin who is massively underrated.

Detroit? Definitely not a plus destination, but they have way more talent to work with on offense than the Jets. Hockenson is a monster and Golladay/Jones Jr is a solid 1/2 punch at wideout. And their offensive line isn’t great but it won’t get him killed.

Denver? Elway is trash but they have a smorgasbord of weapons on offense; Jeudy, Sutton, Fant, Lindsay, though their OL is really bad.

Atlanta? Again, talent on offense in Ridley and Julio and an OL that won’t get him killed immediately. Also, that team has talent throughout the roster, they’ve just desperately needed a coaching change.

the only team whose situation is comparably awful is the Giants IMO. Both teams have gaping holes at nearly every position.

like i said, I don’t think he’s actually going to avoid going to a New York team, but I would argue it’s the worst situation a young QB will have been drafted into since...probably Andrew Luck. And we saw what happened to him.

personally, if I were Lawerence, I’d much rather be drafted by a Detroit or Washington

The Jets are terrible. I stated the selling points. You can add to that that they have a number of good picks in the next two drafts. They don't have big contract commitments. It's essentially a blank slate. If you can live with not winning right out of the gate and believe that the GM has a plan that can prove successful, then I don't think you hesitate. Even if you have some concerns, there too much risk, too much money at stake.

You didn't need to analyze the teams. I wasn't talking about talent on roster. I was just commenting on the fact that other teams have been even worse than the Jets in terms of performance both historically, and just in the recent past.

Also, trust me--no one should want to be drafted by Washington. They are incredibly unstable and led by a poor man's Jerry Jones with a Napoleon Complex. They have been horrendous for the 25+ years I have lived here and it's not usually due to lack of talent--it's due to horrible mismanagement.

 

[Adam Fox Time]

I've been looking at 2021 mock drafts and it seems most of them still have Penei Sewell going #2 overall behind Lawrence, with some having him go #3 behind Fields. I thought he would have fallen more after opting out but he hasn't really.

This one, though, actually has Penei Sewell going #1 overall to the Giants: 2021 NFL Mock Draft 5.0: Trevor Lawrence passed up at No. 1 by New York team

I know people would be angry at that! I do hope they would at least trade down to #2 in that scenario.

The thing is, while this team does need more talent in general, the worst thing about it is the OL. Looking at the pressure stats (2019 NFL Advanced Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com, 2020 NFL Advanced Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com), specifically Prss and Prss%, the OL seems to be worse in 2020 than it was in 2019, and it was already very bad in 2019.

I don't see how taking Trevor Lawrence would help the Giants very much when the OL is so bad. More than anything right now, this team needs to build around a generational talent OT. Hopefully Thomas isn't a bust and can move to RT, and then we're set for our offense to actually do things.

 

[nyr2k2]

I don’t need to be a football fan to know

A) the Jets are clearly tanking for a generational quarterback prospect and

B) Sam Darnold will clearly be gone if they manage to get said generational quarterback prospect

They're not tanking.

They traded Adams because he forced their hand. They cut Bell because he forced their hand. They went into this season, even after trading Adams, expecting to be competitive. Not a playoff team, but competitive.

Unfortunately, the OL has not gelled and has been awful despite all the off-season additions. The WRs have been injured--Crowder missed a couple games, Perriman hasn't played since week two, Denzel Mims hasn't played at all, etc. They were literally starting multiple practice squad players and guys like Braxton Berrios and Chris Hogan. Not to tank, but because that's what they were left with. Bell is mediocre and was injured. The coach won't use Perine. The TEs have all regressed. The defense, which was competent and at times good last year, has fallen to pieces (Mosley opting out was just as big of a loss as Adams). Nothing has gone right. Had it gone right, they could have been a five- or six-win team. Instead everything has gone wrong and they are what their record says they are.

It's not a tank, though. They made plenty of moves in the off-season to try to be competitive without committing too much money or too many years. They wanted to be a respectable team. Instead, people see the Adams and now Bell moves and think tank. They're a bad team with terrible coaching who is also badly depleted by injury.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I've been looking at 2021 mock drafts and it seems most of them still have Penei Sewell going #2 overall behind Lawrence, with some having him go #3 behind Fields. I thought he would have fallen more after opting out but he hasn't really.

Keep in mind the Big 10 hasn't started up yet so no one has seen Fields this season.

A lot of the draft experts are holding off on publishing updated mocks/top prospects until the Big 10 plays some games.

 

[Maximus]

disagree - you draft the kid.

you will never get the better return. Neither ny team has demonstrated their draft rooms have any clue. The Giants draft room changes are off the charts crazy and reek of nepotism. Good lord, Chris Mara calls in his vote from a horse track to his nephew who shares.

Why do you say that Jets couldn't get a better return? What does Maccagnon or Idzik have to do with Joe Douglass not being able to negotiate a huge haul? I'd take my chances that Douglass would do just fine as far as return if we dealt the #1 overall.

I get in the past the Jets GM's have blown chunks. So far tho in deals like he made to deal down in the draft for Mims getting additional draft capital and in the Adams deal where JD got a pretty significant haul for a guy who didn't want to be here and other teams knew it, I think Douglass has shown he knows WTF he's doing.

So let's leave the crap that was Mac and Idzik out of the equation here. I trust Douglass would get a hefty return for the #1 overall as there would likely be at least 2-3 teams bidding for it and the right to draft the cats meow Trevor Lawrence.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Why do you say that Jets couldn't get a better return? What does Maccagnon or Idzik have to do with Joe Douglass not being able to negotiate a huge haul? I'd take my chances that Douglass would do just fine as far as return if we dealt the #1 overall.

I get in the past the Jets GM's have blown chunks. So far tho in deals like he made to deal down in the draft for Mims getting additional draft capital and in the Adams deal where JD got a pretty significant haul for a guy who didn't want to be here and other teams knew it, I think Douglass has shown he knows WTF he's doing. So let's leave crap that Mac and Idzik out of the equation here...thank you very much.

Go trade the next John Elway then. I’m sure the Jets will draft enough to make up for him.

 

[Maximus]

I'm in the trade down if we get 1oa, get a haul beyond what rg3 got. Douglass with 3 - 4 firsts this coming draft, plus more coming is enough to build a legit team around darnold. Very much reminds me of what gorton did with the rangers.

That's what I'm talking about. Glad to have you on "Let's Build Around and Not Give up on Sam Island". There are still plenty of girls left for you as well...enjoy!...lol

 

[Maximus]

Go trade the next John Elway then. I’m sure the Jets will draft enough to make up for him.

Let's just say you are right and Lawrence is the next Elway and hypothetically Jets keep the pick, here's how I see it playing out:

Douglass has 4 #1 and #2 picks in next years draft and a ton of money for UFA's. He can improve the O-line and add a solid WR and maybe a cover corner. Jets are still 3-4 years away from being relevant and competitive for a playoff spot.

If Douglass trades the overall #1, here's how I see it playing out:

Douglass would now have minimum of 6 #1 and #2 picks in next year's draft and he'd likely have added an additional #1 and #2 the following year or two. By doing this, Douglass could improve the O-line bigtime, add a solid WR or two. Get a cover corner and an edge rusher. Jets would be 1-2 years away from being relevant and competitive for a playoff spot.

Bottom line: Draft Lawrence, we are still 3-4 years away. Keep Sam and get a haul, Jets are 1-2 years away. I'm sick and tired of losing and rebuilds.

Sam has 9 games to show whether or not he deserves to be kept. Let's see how Darnold does when he comes back in week 7 and he hopefully has some NFL caliber WR's to throw to as Mims and Perriman should be back to join Crowder.

And by than Becton should be back and hopefully the O-line will give Sam more than 2 seconds to throw the ball to these NFL caliber receivers. I really want Darnold to succeed...hopefully he will even with this dumb dumb HC we have whispering in his ear.

 

[WojtekWolski86]

They're not tanking.

They traded Adams because he forced their hand. They cut Bell because he forced their hand. They went into this season, even after trading Adams, expecting to be competitive. Not a playoff team, but competitive.

Unfortunately, the OL has not gelled and has been awful despite all the off-season additions. The WRs have been injured--Crowder missed a couple games, Perriman hasn't played since week two, Denzel Mims hasn't played at all, etc. They were literally starting multiple practice squad players and guys like Braxton Berrios and Chris Hogan. Not to tank, but because that's what they were left with. Bell is mediocre and was injured. The coach won't use Perine. The TEs have all regressed. The defense, which was competent and at times good last year, has fallen to pieces (Mosley opting out was just as big of a loss as Adams). Nothing has gone right. Had it gone right, they could have been a five- or six-win team. Instead everything has gone wrong and they are what their record says they are.

It's not a tank, though. They made plenty of moves in the off-season to try to be competitive without committing too much money or too many years. They wanted to be a respectable team. Instead, people see the Adams and now Bell moves and think tank. They're a bad team with terrible coaching who is also badly depleted by injury.

This team is the result of piss poor cap and draft management. When 50 percent of your picks the last 5 years aren't even in the league anymore and you keep whiffing on free agents you end up with a roster lacking talent.

We didnt even talk about ownership and management. Coaches and GMs cant report directly to an owner independently, especially if football is a hobby.

You dont let a GM go into free agency with a giant purse, let him draft your team and help hire the head coach then fire him. Especially when he is already on the hot seat. Then you let the head coach be GM for a few weeks?

 

[Maximus]

This team is the result of piss poor cap and draft management. When 50 percent of your picks the last 5 years aren't even in the league anymore and you keep whiffing on free agents you end up with a roster lacking talent.

We didnt even talk about ownership and management. Coaches and GMs cant report directly to an owner independently, especially if football is a hobby.

You dont let a GM go into free agency with a giant purse, let him draft your team and help hire the head coach then fire him. Especially when he is already on the hot seat. Then you let the head coach be GM for a few weeks?

It just makes you shake your head and say WTF doesn't it?

Truly is incredible how inept this franchise is. This tho is the worst I've ever seen it and I've been around for almost 50 years since the John Riggins days. I said it last night here and it deserves repeating, this team is not only worse than the 1996 version of the Kotite led Jets that went 1-15 but I'll go as far as saying that this Jet team after 5 games might be the worst team I've ever seen in 50 years including everyone. And that includes teams like the 0-16 Lions, 1-15 Saints...etc.

Seriously, this team as presently constructed would have a very difficult time beating a Clemson for instance....that's how bad we are. Amazing how bad things have gotten.

 

[17futurecap]

Giving big contracts to RBs is a bad idea.

Take notes, Giants!!!

Pretty funny watching the Vikings game going from look how good Cook is running, oh no, he's hurt. Look how good Mattison is running, oh no he needs a breather, look how good Mike Boone is running.

The Panthers not having to force a million touches to CMC has also opened up their offense, and has them winning games.

Running backs don't matter.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Let's just say you are right and Lawrence is the next Elway and hypothetically Jets keep the pick, here's how I see it playing out:

Douglass has 4 #1 and #2 picks in next years draft and a ton of money for UFA's. He can improve the O-line and add a solid WR and maybe a cover corner. Jets are still 3-4 years away from being relevant and competitive for a playoff spot.

where are you getting four or six #1 draft picks? And what makes you believe the Jets will hit on them?

The Giants just had three #1 picks. They have picked in the top 10 five out of the last six years not including Beckham at #12. That got them the worst record in football over the past three years.

The only year the Giants made the playoffs since 2011 was b/c they bought a ton free agents. Something apparently you want to do? Massive FA spending brought us the Dallas Cowboys fail, the Redskins fail multiple times and the Eagles “Dream Team” which turned out to be a nightmare. Meanwhile, the Patriots built a dynasty by being frugal with the Baltimores and Pitts always there.

So sure, trade John Elway and go into a draft and select from a Covid crop in which multiple have opted out and nobody plays defense. Take an offensive lineman who blocked nobody on defense or a defender which never tackled anybody. How is Jeff Okudah doing so far? The lockdown corner who didn’t give up even 50 yards to a college WR all last year. I think he gave up three TD’s just this past weekend.

Only sure thing is Lawrence but go ahead and roll the dice. Ken O’Brien II with Marino playing elsewhere has a nice ring to it.

 

[nyr2k2]

where are you getting four or six #1 draft picks? And what makes you believe the Jets will hit on them?

They have two first round picks in the next two drafts, plus their seconds. So that's the four firsts, and the six top-two rounders.