Draft 2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part VII

[NYR]

The Rangers can find a competent goalie in the trash heap, I can't imagine why anyone would sweat over losing Georgiev

Allaire and the scouts probably have multiple guys on their radar they'd like to add if Georgeiv goes

I'm not sure I get this at all.

He's still very young, extremely skilled and cost just pennies.

It's only what every team in the league is looking for even as backup.

Add to that..Trading him isn't going to be worth the scraps that comes in his return.

He's much more valuable to the team than he's given credit for IMO..

 

[Edge]

I'm not sure I get this at all.

He's still very young, extremely skilled and cost just pennies.

It's only what every team in the league is looking for even as backup.

Add to that..Trading him isn't going to be worth the scraps that comes in his return.

He's much more valuable to the team than he's given credit for IMO..

I think it's more a matter of diminishing returns, and seeing if there are ways to improve the overall roster by utilizing an asset that is more likely to depreciate in value than increase.

 

[eco's bones]

The Rangers can find a competent goalie in the trash heap, I can't imagine why anyone would sweat over losing Georgiev

Allaire and the scouts probably have multiple guys on their radar they'd like to add if Georgeiv goes

To squeak into the playoffs these days you need 95 points anyway. If you're playing Igor 52 and the backup 30 if the backup can't be a net positive in the win/loss column that puts all the pressure on Igor to make up the difference. As an example if your backup goes 15 and 15 in his 30 games Igor is going to need to go 33 and 19 to squeak the team in at 96 standings points. So IMO we need a good backup goaltender and not just any backup goaltender will do.

Mind you also that Allaire is not a scout--they might go to him with video and for insight but scouting and signing players is another thing and there's likely no development camp or Traverse before next season hits---the Europeans goalies will already be playing if we're starting the season in December/January. The Rangers do have Jan Gajdosic (sp?) who is an ex-goalie and an amateur scout (and probably the guy who found Georgiev) but again his area is Europe and everyone's going to be already playing. The European leagues aren't exactly our minor league system. If we're going to find a quick enough replacement for Georgiev between now and December he's probably in North America---and looking through cap friendly's UFA goalie market doesn't give me a really happy feeling. Guys in their 30's that are declining and/or who've had larger contracts or used to being starters. Going that way is going to be expensive and it might not give us very good result.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

To squeak into the playoffs these days you need 95 points anyway. If you're playing Igor 52 and the backup 30 if the backup can't be a net positive in the win/loss column that puts all the pressure on Igor to make up the difference. As an example if your backup goes 15 and 15 in his 30 games Igor is going to need to go 33 and 19 to squeak the team in at 96 standings points. So IMO we need a good backup goaltender and not just any backup goaltender will do.

Mind you also that Allaire is not a scout--they might go to him with video and for insight but scouting and signing players is another thing and there's likely no development camp or Traverse before next season hits---the Europeans goalies will already be playing if we're starting the season in December/January. The Rangers do have Jan Gajdosic (sp?) who is an ex-goalie and an amateur scout (and probably the guy who found Georgiev) but again his area is Europe and everyone's going to be already playing. The European leagues aren't exactly our minor league system. If we're going to find a quick enough replacement for Georgiev between now and December he's probably in North America---and looking through cap friendly's UFA goalie market doesn't give me a really happy feeling. Guys in their 30's that are declining and/or who've had larger contracts or used to being starters. Going that way is going to be expensive and it might not give us very good result.

How much do you think some of those goalies are going to sign for with a flat cap? And how much do you think Georgiev is going to get? Because I don't think there's much of a difference in price (and I honestly think you could get a good backup for less than Georgiev) and Georgiev's record was 17-14 last year

 

[Mikos87]

Ask a random person to guess which league will have produced players named Texier, Knazko, Lambert, Slafkovsky, Blomqvist and Erholtz over the years.

Nobody would guess it's the Finnish Liiga

I like Knazko too. Would add him to the list of the other European defensemen. There's a good track record of kids from the East playing in the Nordic leagues.

 

[Edge]

To squeak into the playoffs these days you need 95 points anyway. If you're playing Igor 52 and the backup 30 if the backup can't be a net positive in the win/loss column that puts all the pressure on Igor to make up the difference. As an example if your backup goes 15 and 15 in his 30 games Igor is going to need to go 33 and 19 to squeak the team in at 96 standings points. So IMO we need a good backup goaltender and not just any backup goaltender will do.

Mind you also that Allaire is not a scout--they might go to him with video and for insight but scouting and signing players is another thing and there's likely no development camp or Traverse before next season hits---the Europeans goalies will already be playing if we're starting the season in December/January. The Rangers do have Jan Gajdosic (sp?) who is an ex-goalie and an amateur scout (and probably the guy who found Georgiev) but again his area is Europe and everyone's going to be already playing. The European leagues aren't exactly our minor league system. If we're going to find a quick enough replacement for Georgiev between now and December he's probably in North America---and looking through cap friendly's UFA goalie market doesn't give me a really happy feeling. Guys in their 30's that are declining and/or who've had larger contracts or used to being starters. Going that way is going to be expensive and it might not give us very good result.

I agree we need a good backup goalie, but I don't think that backup has to be a younger guy who still holds intrigue as a potential starter and whose value would be likely to steadily decline the longer he isn't getting a chance to play more.

In other words, I think we can probably find a backup who brings what Georgiev brings now, but doesn't necessarily bring the possibility of what Georgiev could bring in 2 or 3 years. Essentially, we're holding onto an asset whose "added value" we're very unlikely to use or benefit from.

So if we're looking at this from a player rating standpoint - do you keep the 24 year old goalie with an 80 rating (but who could reach 85 rating if given the chance to be a starter), or do you trade him for help elsewhere and sign a 30 year old goalie with an 80 rating (but who isn't going to be a starter and hopefully maintains the rating for a year or two). The upside of the younger goalie is nice, but you're not likly to see it on the Rangers unless Georgiev is starting --- which he likely won't. However, he does hold value for another team who can give him that opportunity, and in turn, provide value to your roster elsewhere.

 

[Edge]

How much do you think some of those goalies are going to sign for with a flat cap? And how much do you think Georgiev is going to get? Because I don't think there's much of a difference in price (and I honestly think you could get a good backup for less than Georgiev) and Georgiev's record was 17-14 last year

And that's something to consider as well. Georgiev is getting a new contract. I would expect that contract to be around market price, maybe slightly higher.

 

[Mikos87]

Greig can turn out to be what Sam Bennett is. CGY fell in love with the kid, but the physical gifts were not 4th overall worthy. Rest of the game is solid, but Bennett has turned out to be a very good third liner. Amazing what a great interview and some hype can do.

 

[eco's bones]

How much do you think some of those goalies are going to sign for with a flat cap? And how much do you think Georgiev is going to get? Because I don't think there's much of a difference in price (and I honestly think you could get a good backup for less than Georgiev) and Georgiev's record was 17-14 last year

17-14 at least helps. 10-12 doesn't. I also don't think Alex is going to break the bank.

 

[NYR]

I think it's more a matter of diminishing returns, and seeing if there are ways to improve the overall roster by utilizing an asset that is more likely to depreciate in value than increase.

IDK man.. Georgie been lights out in some games this year.
At the same time, I'm a #30 supporter.
He's earned it but if it were me?

I'd look to turn the page and roll into the season with Shesty and Georgie as #1 and #2.

No one can force Hank into retirement so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens..

 

[gravey9]

As much as I think Askarov is going to be a star goalie, I just think the Rangers can't justify taking him unless they are in a draft position where there is no other difference makers on the board. I think we are fully aware at this point of the limitations of trade value for goaltending assets. That said, I think once you get past the top 8 or 9 players in this draft Askarov has to be taken if only for pure value.

Holloway to me is a CK-ish or Jordan Greenway type. I think our forward ranks could use another guy like that. Holloway, Gauthier, Barron in your bottom 6 and occasionally playing in top 6 when needed, would be great. I think he could be one of those pieces you want in the playoffs.

Similarly I feel like Wallinder has some things that are hard to pass up. But that he has that tyler myers build that will take 4-5 years to grow into.

My big issue with many of the centers and forwards that rank in the second half of the first round is that they all seem to be in that 5'10" range but lack that extra gear you need to play at that height. Thats why Marat K has my interest. He's actually got the speed and tenacity to play at his height.

There's a decent chance that all of the players other than Marat K and Wallinder are gone by 22. And if the Rangers trade for a top 4 LD or a top 6 C using that pick it's going to be hard to argue with. Same with using Georgie to move up.

 

[Edge]

Greig can turn out to be what Sam Bennett is. CGY fell in love with the kid, but the physical gifts were not 4th overall worthy. Rest of the game is solid, but Bennett has turned out to be a very good third liner. Amazing what a great interview and some hype can do.

I dunno, in his final 68 WHL games as a teenager (and one of the youngest kids in his class), Bennett posted 47 goals and 115 points. He wasn't exactly a slouch in the scoring department.

The offense never translated, but I don't think this was some last minute hype job or the result of a funny joke he told the scouts at the combine.

 

[Edge]

IDK man.. Georgie been lights out in some games this year.
At the same time, I'm a #30 supporter.
He's earned it but if it were me?

I'd look to turn the page and roll into the season with Shesty and Georgie as #1 and #2.

No one can force Hank into retirement so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens..

I think Georgiev is at an age where he's either being groomed and looked at as number one goalie, or he's being labled a backup.

If there's no Shesterkin, I think it's much easier to expect opportunities for him to seize the number one job. But at 24, going on 25 next season, with arguably an elite level goalie prospect playing in front of him, I can't help but feel like holding onto Georgiev is not going to produce a long-term ROI for the Rangers. Developing one young goalie is difficult enough, doing it with two, especially when one has accomplished what Shesterkin has, is really an uphill battle.

As for Lundqvist, he's likely already gone if for no other reason than his salary next year. It's just a matter of whether he retires, or whether he is bought out. But he's almost certainly not coming back regardless of what happens with Georgiev.

 

[eco's bones]

I agree we need a good backup goalie, but I don't think that backup has to be a younger guy who still holds intrigue as a potential starter and whose value would be likely to steadily decline the longer he isn't getting a chance to play more.

In other words, I think we can probably find a backup who brings what Georgiev brings now, but doesn't necessarily bring the possibility of what Georgiev could bring in 2 or 3 years. Essentially, we're holding onto an asset whose "added value" we're very unlikely to use or benefit from.

So if we're looking at this from a player rating standpoint - do you keep the 24 year old goalie with an 80 rating (but who could reach 85 rating if given the chance to be a starter), or do you trade him for help elsewhere and sign a 30 year old goalie with an 80 rating (but who isn't going to be a starter and hopefully maintains the rating for a year or two). The upside of the younger goalie is nice, but you're not likly to see it on the Rangers unless Georgiev is starting --- which he likely won't. However, he does hold value for another team who can give him that opportunity, and in turn, provide value to your roster elsewhere.

I'm kind of wondering who though. Greiss? Khudobin? Elliott?--the return of Cam Talbot? Some guy in the AHL they've been keeping an eye on who they think might be able to do the job? First year pro Tyler Wall?---maybe it might be too big of an ask of him.

Point is if we aren't able to find that guy we're probably making another trade.

 

[Edge]

17-14 at least helps. 10-12 doesn't. I also don't think Alex is going to break the bank.

I don't know if I assume the difference between Georgiev in a backup, and one of the veteran options is a 14 point swing in the standing --- especially considering that I don't think a Shesterkin-Georgiev rotation is going to see quite the balance of a Lundqvist-Georgiev rotation.

Yes, there remains the possibility that there could be a slight decrease in results with another goalie. But the potential value 2-3 year down the line, if you trade up and get someone who steps in after next season, could be an overall better value for the Rangers.

So the gamble might be, are you okay losing a few points next season if indeed the backup isn't as strong, compared to gaining a greater number of points in 2021-22 if you moved up and grabbed the right guy in the draft. There's not guarantee for either result, but that's part of the landscape we'd have to navigate.

 

[Edge]

I'm kind of wondering who though. Greiss? Khudobin? Elliott?--the return of Cam Talbot? Some guy in the AHL they've been keeping an eye on who they think might be able to do the job? First year pro Tyler Wall?---maybe it might be too big of an ask of him.

Point is if we aren't able to find that guy we're probably making another trade.

I dunno, I feel like over the short term just about all of those names can probably provide roughly the same results in a backup role. I mean it's not like Georgiev was the best backup in the league by a wide margin. And with Shesterkin here, what's really a fair expectation for Georgiev? 30 games? Maybe 34 again? I just don't see him hitting that next level, assuming he can hit that level, without getting a real shot to run with the ball. I just don't see that happening on the Rangers.

Shesterkin's true potential value is in the concept of him being an NHL starter, more than it is in him being a very good backup. But our window to capitalize on the former is going to be fairly limited beyond this season and the expected ascent of Shesterkin.

 

[eco's bones]

I don't know if I assume the difference between Georgiev in a backup, and one of the veteran options is a 14 point swing in the standing --- especially considering that I don't think a Shesterkin-Georgiev rotation is going to see quite the balance of a Lundqvist-Georgiev rotation.

Yes, there remains the possibility that there could be a slight decrease in results with another goalie. But the potential value 2-3 year down the line, if you trade up and get someone who steps in after next season, could be an overall better value for the Rangers.

So the gamble might be, are you okay losing a few points next season if indeed the backup isn't as strong, compared to gaining a greater number of points in 2021-22 if you moved up and grabbed the right guy in the draft. There's not guarantee for either result, but that's part of the landscape we'd have to navigate.

Looking at next year I think our margins for making the playoffs are pretty narrow. 21-22 looks like when things are really going to start coming together. The thing is if you miss the playoffs because your backup couldn't hold up his end---that's kind of f***ed up which is another reason I'd just rather not have Henrik because I wouldn't want the fan base blaming him for a lost season if his decline continues.

On the question of whether I'd move up using Georgiev for someone like Mercer the answer is yes but really I think we need to take the question of who is going to be backing up Shesterkin very seriously......and I don't think Henrik is a great option. Also keep in mind the most games Igor has played in a season (including playoffs) is 51 and that was way back in 2013-14 so the idea of just playing him more that some people might have might ultimately backfire if that actually happens. I seem also to remember Igor getting hurt for a short stretch in Hartford this year---then there was the car accident and then in the play-in the groin pull. His ableness to stay healthy is important too.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I like Knazko too. Would add him to the list of the other European defensemen. There's a good track record of kids from the East playing in the Nordic leagues.

Ever since I was a kid I thought it was weird that Finland was considered Western Europe, while Slovakia and the Czech Rep were considered Eastern Europe despite being further West

Of course it's more political than geographic but still.

 

[eco's bones]

I dunno, I feel like over the short term just about all of those names can probably provide roughly the same results in a backup role. I mean it's not like Georgiev was the best backup in the league by a wide margin. And with Shesterkin here, what's really a fair expectation for Georgiev? 30 games? Maybe 34 again? I just don't see him hitting that next level, assuming he can hit that level, without getting a real shot to run with the ball. I just don't see that happening on the Rangers.

Shesterkin's true potential value is in the concept of him being an NHL starter, more than it is in him being a very good backup. But our window to capitalize on the former is going to be fairly limited beyond this season and the expected ascent of Shesterkin.

We'll probably need at least $2 million for any of them.

Watching this year's playoffs it's been interesting to see how many teams have been using two goalies. About the only team that stuck around for any length that hasn't is Tampa. I think things are going to start trending this way and away from that guy who starts 65 regular season games and then does all the playoffs too. That again is why I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with the Rangers drafting someone like Askarov. We got the upfront talent---we have a lot of young D who are beginning to show up--two great goalies means no easy games for the other team.

 

[DutchShamrock]

How much do you think some of those goalies are going to sign for with a flat cap? And how much do you think Georgiev is going to get? Because I don't think there's much of a difference in price (and I honestly think you could get a good backup for less than Georgiev) and Georgiev's record was 17-14 last year

This is just an offer, but it could indicate how the veteran goalie contracts look this summer.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

This is just an offer, but it could indicate how the veteran goalie contracts look this summer.

And I assume that's to be their starter, but that price also probably carries the weight of his uncertainty with his vertigo

 

[Chytilmania]

Think we could get more value for Georgiev at the deadline? Seems like there are a ton of goalie options out there, maybe we let him and Shesty split the beginning of the season then ship him out at the deadline and bring up a guy like Wall.

 

[Trxjw]

Would I trade up for Askarov? Maybe. Depends on the price. Igor is Igor of course but having an elite goalie coming in on an ELC in a few years could be a big positive when this team is handing out big contracts to Lafreniere et al.

As far as finding a backup for Igor, there should be a number of options. Some teams want to shuffle their tandems or are looking to clear out some space. So if Hank walks, helping Arizona out of their cap jam by picking up Raanta for a year isn't too much to handle. Calgary supposedly wants to bring back Talbot but where does that leave Rittich? If Carolina goes after Andersen they'll have to move one of Reimer or Mrazek. There will be options via trade as well as FA.

 

[effen]

Think we could get more value for Georgiev at the deadline? Seems like there are a ton of goalie options out there, maybe we let him and Shesty split the beginning of the season then ship him out at the deadline and bring up a guy like Wall.

I think you get more value with a team setting its roster for the upcoming year than grabbing him at the deadline because of injury. A team looking at him as an actual #1 wants him now for obvious reasons.

 

[n8]

The Rangers can find a competent goalie in the trash heap, I can't imagine why anyone would sweat over losing Georgiev

Allaire and the scouts probably have multiple guys on their radar they'd like to add if Georgeiv goes

Since you specifically mention the scouts, I would ask between Lundqvist and Shestorkin, how many goalie prospects have the Rangers successfully developed? How many of those players did we have to blow a top 10 draft pick on?