Draft 2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part VI

[Ghost of jas]

Zary is interesting because despite there being a lot to like about his game, you can't really point to any one thing and say "Yep, he'll definitely be able to do that in the NHL"

I do think that he is the type of player who wouldn't be too precious about his role and would do anything to stick in a lineup. If it works out for him, you get a player that is better than the sum of their parts due to the infectious enthusiasm and leadership abilities. He still has to refine his skating, but if he does that, I think he's a player.

At this point, I think the Rangers will have better options, especially if they decide to go for someone with more upside.

 

[mas0764]

Yes, I understand full well what you said. That is why I am taking umbrage with it. Having someone like Kreider on your second line is an outstanding option for any contending team. Not decent. Outstanding.

Ok. I will bite. Which 8 teams have 2 left wings that are better than Kreider? That would make 16 left wings on 8 teams that are better than Kreider. This type of list I need to see.

Not according to Dom L, and I'd agree with his ratings, more or less.

Go read the article, I'm not copying and pasting it. Probably not allowed to. But I'm not lying to you.

And I didn't say all left wings, I said wingers in general.

You are unreasonably stuck up on the left side thing. Left and right wingers have very similar roles. You need players of a certain caliber whether they are on the left or right side.

If your argument is that left wingers league wide are just shittier, then that means the money should be saved for the better right wingers, not overspent on Kreider just because he's the best of a bad lot of left wingers.

Umm....except he is not a third liner. Nor was he a third liner when the deal was signed. So try again.

Lol, you try again.

Try actually addressing the point I'm making.

Ok. I will bite again. What two players are better than him on left wing with the Rangers? One is Panarin. Who is this other mystery special guest?

I'm not gonna play this stupid game anymore where we pretend Kreider's deal is good because we haven't seen Lafreniere step onto NHL ice yet. Lafreniere will pass Kreider very, very early in Kreider's deal, not "the last two years."

I've answered your questions. You keep asking the same ones because you aren't happy with reality.

Suit yourself.

 

[surlysailor]

Just curious. Is there a big difference from 20-24 compared to say 28-31 in this draft? Should NYR consider trying to move back to later in the 1st round whiling also grabbing a 2nd/3rd round pick or is sticking in that 20-24 range the best option at this point the build?

 

[mas0764]

Just curious. Is there a big difference from 20-24 compared to say 28-31 in this draft? Should NYR consider trying to move back to later in the 1st round whiling also grabbing a 2nd/3rd round pick or is sticking in that 20-24 range the best option at this point the build?

I'd try to move up first. Then you have to see if someone you like falls.

If not, then sure, move down, if possible.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Just curious. Is there a big difference from 20-24 compared to say 28-31 in this draft? Should NYR consider trying to move back to later in the 1st round whiling also grabbing a 2nd/3rd round pick or is sticking in that 20-24 range the best option at this point the build?

Depends on who you talk too

That said, I would rather the team just stay put and take their guy, as opposed to moving back and rolling the dice on that guy still being there

 

[cwede]

Lots of potential targets being mentioned, some better than others obviously, but without doing a count it feels like there is little chance that at least one of them isn’t still there when carolina’s pick comes up

yeah this is why i am against trading to sooner pick
NYR got Chytil, K'Andre and Nils with picks similar\worse than Canes' will be

 

[Edge]

Just curious. Is there a big difference from 20-24 compared to say 28-31 in this draft? Should NYR consider trying to move back to later in the 1st round whiling also grabbing a 2nd/3rd round pick or is sticking in that 20-24 range the best option at this point the build?

In theory, I think there are a lot of guys in the 15-45 range for whom there's not a lot difference. I think it's going to very subjective for teams.

That could work one of two ways:

Teams might be content to stay put because they don't see a lot of difference,

or teams might target the guy they think is the gem of the lot and want to move to secure him.

 

[Fireonk]

Zary is interesting because despite there being a lot to like about his game, you can't really point to any one thing and say "Yep, he'll definitely be able to do that in the NHL"

I do think that he is the type of player who wouldn't be too precious about his role and would do anything to stick in a lineup. If it works out for him, you get a player that is better than the sum of their parts due to the infectious enthusiasm and leadership abilities. He still has to refine his skating, but if he does that, I think he's a player.

What I find interesting in him is that it works both ways in the sense that you don't really have any aspect of his game that you can say "Yup, that definitely won't work at the NHL level."

 

[Ola]

Zary is interesting because despite there being a lot to like about his game, you can't really point to any one thing and say "Yep, he'll definitely be able to do that in the NHL"

I do think that he is the type of player who wouldn't be too precious about his role and would do anything to stick in a lineup. If it works out for him, you get a player that is better than the sum of their parts due to the infectious enthusiasm and leadership abilities. He still has to refine his skating, but if he does that, I think he's a player.

Yeah, and I think from experience, the last 5 years, being good in any of the junior leagues, don't even remotely translate to the NHL. Its only the top guys that makes it and of them the very best that has a great impact.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Assuming that Carolina takes Askarov, I like the idea of attaching Geo to the Carolina pick to get the Edmonton pick.

Someone will be there who has no business being there.

 

[Edge]

Assuming that Carolina takes Askarov, I like the idea of attaching Geo to the Carolina pick to get the Edmonton pick.

Someone will be there who has no business being there.

In theory, at least one of Lundell, Mercer or Jarvis should be on the board at that spot.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Just curious. Is there a big difference from 20-24 compared to say 28-31 in this draft? Should NYR consider trying to move back to later in the 1st round whiling also grabbing a 2nd/3rd round pick or is sticking in that 20-24 range the best option at this point the build?

i did read this draft extremely deep while another source felt there was very little difference between picks 9-40.

With so many stoppages due to Covid i wonder how many teams have enough info to make educated choices. I don’t believe their is a combine and somebody mentioned perhaps something regional. It’s a large Geography with kids scattered beyond North America.

 

[cwede]

without Junior, Euro and NCAA playoffs, and no Combines,
yeah some teams may be making less informed decsions.
As noted around here a few months back,
this could create some unanticipated opportunities for NYR's 3 7th round picks ...

 

[True Blue]

And I didn't say all left wings, I said wingers in general.

You said that Kreider would be the third best wing on the top 8 contending teams. Name the teams that have two left wings that are better than him.

You are unreasonably stuck up on the left side thing. Left and right wingers have very similar roles. You need players of a certain caliber whether they are on the left or right side.

Umm..No. One plays one side and one plays the other. They are not interchangeable parts. This isn't EA Sports.

If your argument is that left wingers league wide are just shittier, then that means the money should be saved for the better right wingers, not overspent on Kreider just because he's the best of a bad lot of left wingers.

My argument is that he is a legit top liner. You cannot actually debate that. My argument is that he falls in the lower middle tier of all left wings in the NHL. You cannot actually debate that. And my argument is that him being on the second line of a contending team would make for outstanding depth. You can try to debate that ,but it looks like a silly argument.
[QUOTELol, you try again.

Try actually addressing the point I'm making. [/QUOTE]
I did. He is not a third line player.

I'm not gonna play this stupid game anymore where we pretend Kreider's deal is good because we haven't seen Lafreniere step onto NHL ice yet. Lafreniere will pass Kreider very, very early in Kreider's deal, not "the last two years."

Kreider's deal is good because it is a good deal. Unless you are suggesting that any deal should be made with the belief that 1) a global pandemic is about to happen and 2) you are going to wind up with the top overall pick who happens to play the same position.

I've answered your questions. You keep asking the same ones because you aren't happy with reality.

Let's try this one again. Name the 8 contenders on which Kreider is the third best option on the left.

 

[Heckler81]

I definitely think we need to go Center with Carolina’s pick. If no C drops down in the draft.

I select either Khusnutdiniv or Perreault.

 

[Ola]

I have to say, Peterka is just — really — underrated this draft from my POV. There is some systematic error behind not one of the scouting services listed at EP having him higher than 17 and most in the mid 20s.

I am watching Canada-Germany in the U20 WJC right now. His ranking is odd.

 

[eco's bones]

If we're moving Georgiev---I would still recommend moving on from Henrik anyway--either he retires or we buy him out. I don't have the faith that he can carry his share of the load anymore. So that would mean bringing in another goalie.

 

[eco's bones]

I have to say, Peterka is just — really — underrated this draft from my POV. There is some systematic error behind not one of the scouting services listed at EP having him higher than 17 and most in the mid 20s.

I am watching Canada-Germany in the U20 WJC right now. His ranking is odd.

I like all three of the Germans--all great hockey sense, all competitive and all really good skaters. I don't think we could go wrong with any of them either.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I have to say, Peterka is just — really — underrated this draft from my POV. There is some systematic error behind not one of the scouting services listed at EP having him higher than 17 and most in the mid 20s.

I am watching Canada-Germany in the U20 WJC right now. His ranking is odd.

The 3 German kids this year all performed better than anyone could have predicted. But I think there's still some hesitation towards Peterka and Reichel for playing in the DEL.

 

[TopShelf86]

If we're moving Georgiev---I would still recommend moving on from Henrik anyway--either he retires or we buy him out. I don't have the faith that he can carry his share of the load anymore. So that would mean bringing in another goalie.

Idk I think him knowing that these are his final 30 or so games for the Rangers. He might rise to the occasion and play well consistently
It's just that damn 8,5 for 25 or 30 games. Itll work itself out
That's what Davidson and Gorton get paid the big bucks for

Itd be mint if he retired but that's a whole other conversation

 

[mas0764]

Let's try this one again. Name the 8 contenders on which Kreider is the third best option on the left.

Yeah, let's.

For about the fourteenth time, I didn't say the third best option on the left.

Go read the article, for one. If you can't, don't blame me.

I said the third best WINGER.

For a contending team, it's important to have good winger options, whether they be left or right wingers. You need to have good players on the wing. It doesn't matter that much whether the production is coming from right wingers or left wingers, as long as you have some quality scoring wingers, it can be either. I'm not arguing that one player is interchangeable between right and left, I'm arguing that you need a player of roughly Kreider's caliber on the second line on the right OR left at least to be a contender.

As to Kreider, on most of those teams, he'd be the third best winger. Not third best left wing. Third best winger.

On some of those teams (I think 2 was the count), he would be worse than the third best winger.

On one of those teams, he'd be better than the third best winger (Pittsburgh, if memory serves).

So he's kinda the mendoza line on what a second line winger option would be on a contender. There are two teams who have better winger options, so I'm not gonna say he's a great option. But there is also a contender with worse wingers, so I'm not gonna say he's a terrible winger option on a contender either. Hence, decent option on a contender. Maybe he's a great option on a second line for a team that's a bubble team, but I'm not interested in measuring against those teams.

When this concept sinks in, then come back to me and I'll address the rest for you.... for a fifteenth time. Reading comprehension.... you lack it.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Depends on who you talk too

That said, I would rather the team just stay put and take their guy, as opposed to moving back and rolling the dice on that guy still being there

If I were the Rangers, I would try to get a 2nd round pick. I'd prefer to move Georgiev/Strome, etc. to get one, but if that means meaning down with the Carolina pick, I'm fine with it. Move down from 24 to 28-29, and get a 2nd rd pick plus as part of the deal.

 

[Harbour Dog]

1 LW actually.

He looked really good with Joel Lundqvist at C. Did the dirty work for the old man. Its perfectly possible that he will play LW for Frölunda this season, but I don't think its a big issue even if we want him to become a center in the future. At wing he is still very much a pseudo center who helps out all over the ice.

With that said, I don't think he got a set position in the line-up. But unlike last season, his competition is primarily from 2-3 other younger players.

This sounds great for his development! My biggest knock in my viewings of him so far is that his game looked to be too much of a junior style to translate well.

A season of dirty work to compliment his finesse and vision could be just what the doctor ordered!

 

[Ola]

The 3 German kids this year all performed better than anyone could have predicted. But I think there's still some hesitation towards Peterka and Reichel for playing in the DEL.

Do you know how the reasoning goes there?

Like Reichel, sure, there are some projecting there. He is a typical D-1 prospect. Can skate, stick handle and everything, but the explosiveness and stamina isn’t quite there. Peterka is definitely really good already.

 

[eco's bones]

Idk I think him knowing that these are his final 30 or so games for the Rangers. He might rise to the occasion and play well consistently
It's just that damn 8,5 for 25 or 30 games. Itll work itself out
That's what Davidson and Gorton get paid the big bucks for

Itd be mint if he retired but that's a whole other conversation

I don't know--pretty much since that letter came out Henrik's game has deteriorated. He'll be 39(?) next year and he'll need to play 30 games anyway as the backup and not the starter. We're also likely talking about going back to a bubble for at least half of the season--maybe the entire season. Would he be up for all that because I can imagine he is not going to be exactly a happy camper just to start out and by season's end things very well might be even much worse from his perspective. Henrik will have to win at least half of his starts or Igor's going to have an unreal win/loss record for us to get in. I just don't see the team being better off for him being on the roster. If the Rangers do keep him I guess we'll see but IMO the Rangers should be back to the playoffs this next season and for years to come. If he doesn't hold up his end and the Rangers don't make it that's a bad decision on management's part and it's not a good way for him to go out either.