Draft 2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part V

[Edge]

I think it’s becoming evident Jarvis isn’t likely to be there, @Edge has already dropped the names Bourque and Lapierre could be targets.

From what I'm hearing right now, Jarvis is going to be tough. He could go inside the top 15, and may be sneaking toward that 12ish range.

And it really does depend on where the Canes pick falls and who is directly ahead of us. Even at 20 or 21 you're looking at Calgary, NJ x2, Montreal and Pittsburgh.

Right off the bat, NJ is a no-go. Calgary is possible, but if they end up with the pick right in front of us, that doesn't go any good.

So now you're left with conference competition in Montreal and Pittsburgh.

 

[Edge]

I’ve been doing a lot of reading and talking with friends about Lafreniere and one conclusion I am making is that he is hard to play against. Not Cam Neely but someone who does have a physical element in their game and does not back down from contact. That fills a very specific need on this team.

That's spot on and I would agree with it.

I was talking to a friend last night, and we were discussing how Lafreniere is a bit of a pain in the ass. Not like a super pest, but he's chippy, and chirpy, and you can tell that he definitely frustrates the other team.

Lafreniere is a tough player to go against, and that makes the Rangers a tougher team to play against.

I get fans thinking the Rangers would love a center. But Lafreniere really does check off just about every box for the Rangers. He's not just the BPA, he is a very good fit for the Rangers.

 

[Thirty One]

In all my viewings, I haven't seen an answer to the question "Why isn't he a center?" yet. Anyone got that answer?

 

[bobbop]

For our 2nd first rounder I am taking the biggest swing on the board. I don't care what position (besides goalie unless Askarov magically slips) nor do I care specifically what attributes the kid brings to the table.

Take a risk on a kid that has the highest upside and let him marinate for as long as needed.

Talking about not enough grit is ridiculous to me. In a few years, when we would expect this kid to start playing on the team, we have no idea where the strengths and weaknesses of the team might be. Worse case scenario this player is redundant and you can always trade for someone of similar value that fits what the team needs more when the time comes.

That sounds like it could be Hendrix Lapierre.

Lafreniere and Lapierre. Hmmmm.... (Poor Sam)

 

[Captain Monglobster]

Chytil-Lafreniere-Kakko, let me dream.

 

[Polar Bear]

That's spot and I would agree with it.

I was talking to a friend last night, and we were discussing how Lafreniere is a bit of a pain in the ass. Not like a super pest, but he's chippy, and chirpy, and you can tell that he definitely frustrates the other team.

Lafreniere is a tough player to go against, and that makes the Rangers a tougher team to play against.

I get better thinking the Rangers would love a center. But Lafreniere really does check off just about every box for the Rangers. He's not just the BPA, he is a very good fit for the Rangers.

We can just get that 2C we need with other assets that we do have to move. I don't know why a small handful of fans make it out to be a bigger issue than it is.

 

[Profet]

In all my viewings, I haven't seen an answer to the question "Why isn't he a center?" yet. Anyone got that answer?

I also haven't seen an answer to the question "Why isn't he a goalie?".

This isn't a video game. You can't just play players wherever you want. There are very real things that have to be done at each position. Sometimes these things are obvious, sometimes they are not. At lower levels this may not be a big deal, and some positions are easier to adapt to when coming from other positions. But at the pro level, there are little things that not only need to be known how to do, they also need to be instinctual.

Little things like how to approach a scrum against the boards, how/when to pass on your forehand/backhand in different situations. These things aren't always noticeable when watching.
The answer to "Why isn't he a center?" is the same as the answer to the question "Why isn't he a squirrel."

He's never been squirrel, he never learned to be a squirrel, he doesn't do squirrel things, and him acting like a squirrel doesn't mean he'd be a good squirrel.

 

[Edge]

I think it’s becoming evident Jarvis isn’t likely to be there, @Edge has already dropped the names Bourque and Lapierre could be targets.

Both Bourque and Lapierre are both the type of kids who don't necessarily get a ton of press or fan lusting prior to the draft, but they are two talented kids who are going to be available in the 20s.

Lapierre is a playmaking center whose is arguably near the top of the class a playmaker. He an excellent stickhanlder, a high IQ player who isn't afraid to defend and contribute. He controls the flow of play and will patiently wait to create an opportunity with a highe success rate.

But there are concerns because of his injuries. You have 1 documented concussion and an injury that is somewhat similar to the one Zibanejad suffered this season. You also have a shoulder injury in the mix as well.

From a skill/talent perspective, Lapierre is arguably a top 15 talent in this draft. But I think he's also a high-risk prospect and that could push him all the way into the second round.

Bourque is a kid who doesn't get nearly the praise he should. Offensively, the kid is capable of pretty much doing whatever he wants. He can shoot, he can set up plays, he is difficult to seperate from the puck, he can get dirty, and he isn't allergic to defending.

But he's a guy who can also be hard to find some nights and that becomes disappointing when you're looking for someone to change the course of a game. He's too talented not to have an impact on more games. There's also some concern about his size and ability to translate his dazzling game to the pros. But, I don't think that's terribly out of line from quite a few kids in this draft. And if you're going to accept those concerns, you might as well consider getting a higher reward for your troubles.

 

[Ola]

2020 Draft: Jean-Luc Foudy following lead of older brother Liam

do the Rabgers draft the other Foudy with the late 1st??

My guess is that that kid will rise a bit, many have him as a 2nd rounder, but I think that is putting a bit too much weight on abilities of others that might now transfer perfectly and underrating how much Foudy's skating will make him useful in the NHL. With that said, I am not super high on him, and especially his upside.

Look, I am a big fan of looking at things from a macro perspective. This draft is one of those instances. For like the last 10 years we have received rankings from someone like McKenzie in January, then late spring and another one just before the draft. If we compare the one in January to the actual draft result -- its super volatile. Players can be unlisted or ranked 2-3 round in January but still go top 5-10 in the draft. Moves 20-30 spots in either direction is not unusual in any way or form, right.

This year, we got a ranking in January, then a couple of months more hockey, and then everyone called it a day.

A big part of that volatility is that late in the year -- everyone get to see these kids play in new environments, and in many cases on the same ice against each other. The result of this is that often -- you get team A playing against team B.
*Team A is much better than Team B.
*Player X is one of the best players on team A.
*Player Y is a 4th line player on Team B that obviously is in over his head at the level the game between Team A and Team B is played.
*On the paper the executive has infront of him watching the game between Team A and Team B -- it says that player Y is ranked 60 spots ahead of player X.

Come draft day, an adjustment will be made thanks to this. This might sound like an exaggeration -- but it is not. This year we are not getting these movements beforehand. Compared to the expectations before the draft, I wouldn't at all be surprised if we saw a lot of movement and I also think we can capitilizse on this and make some really good selections.

 

[Thirty One]

I also haven't seen an answer to the question "Why isn't he a goalie?".

This isn't a video game. You can't just play players wherever you want. There are very real things that have to be done at each position. Sometimes these things are obvious, sometimes they are not. At lower levels this may not be a big deal, and some positions are easier to adapt to when coming from other positions. But at the pro level, there are little things that not only need to be known how to do, they also need to be instinctual.

Little things like how to approach a scrum against the boards, how/when to pass on your forehand/backhand in different situations. These things aren't always noticeable when watching.
The answer to "Why isn't he a center?" is the same as the answer to the question "Why isn't he a squirrel."

He's never been squirrel, he never learned to be a squirrel, he doesn't do squirrel things, and him acting like a squirrel doesn't mean he'd be a good squirrel.

Wow, what an impressively obnoxious post!

In my opinion, he isn't a goalie because he has shown little ability to stop pucks at the goalmouth. He isn't a squirrel, because he's 6'1" and doesn't have a bushy tail.

I understand that there are things to do at each position. Not super big-brained stuff there. I'm asking what the things are that are required of a center that he doesn't have, or at least suits him better on the wing.

If your point is that if you play one position in juniors, you are locked in for the rest of hockey career, I think I have the answer to why you're not a brain surgeon.

 

[Edge]

In all my viewings, I haven't seen an answer to the question "Why isn't he a center?" yet. Anyone got that answer?

My guess is that it's a combination of the angles he is comfortable taking and the parts of the ice he works best from, some of the defensive responsibilities, and things like faceoffs.

Kind of the same reasons Jagr wasn't a center, or some other top wingers.

 

[Fireonk]

He isn't a squirrel, because he's 6'1" and doesn't have a bushy tail.

Without the combine this year how can you be so sure?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

My guess is that it's a combination of the angles he is comfortable taking and the parts of the ice he works best from, some of the defensive responsibilities, and things like faceoffs.

Kind of the same reasons Jagr wasn't a center, or some other top wingers.

Plus he likes scoring goals, easier for him to utilize his skills from the wing position to do that.

 

[eco's bones]

I very much doubt the Rangers are going to make their selections (after Laf) based off that.

Is it because you don't think it makes much difference whether someone we draft this year plays at all next season or not?

 

[eco's bones]

With his injury issues I would stay far away from Lapierre.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Both Bourque and Lapierre are both the type of kids who don't necessarily get a ton of press or fan lusting prior to the draft, but they are two talented kids who are going to be available in the 20s.

Lapierre is a playmaking center whose is arguably near the top of the class a playmaker. He an excellent stickhanlder, a high IQ player who isn't afraid to defend and contribute. He controls the flow of play and will patiently wait to create an opportunity with a highe success rate.

But there are concerns because of his injuries. You have 1 documented concussion and an injury that is somewhat similar to the one Zibanejad suffered this season. You also have a shoulder injury in the mix as well.

From a skill/talent perspective, Lapierre is arguably a top 15 talent in this draft. But I think he's also a high-risk prospect and that could push him all the way into the second round.

Bourque is a kid who doesn't get nearly the praise he should. Offensively, the kid is capable of pretty much doing whatever he wants. He can shoot, he can set up plays, he is difficult to seperate from the puck, he can get dirty, and he isn't allergic to defending.

But he's a guy who can also be hard to find some nights and that becomes disappointing when you're looking for someone to change the course of a game. He's too talented not to have an impact on more games. There's also some concern about his size and ability to translate his dazzling game to the pros. But, I don't think that's terribly out of line from quite a few kids in this draft. And if you're going to accept those concerns, you might as well consider getting a higher reward for your troubles.

Lapierre also had the Sidney Crosby Spine injury. I'd pass.

Perrault is the ultimate swing for the fences pick at that Carolina spot though. Best shot in this draft and a really high skill set but you're gonna have to deal with that Ryan Merkely like lack of attention (or care of) to detail. We always seem to pass on those guys.

 

[BB88]

I’ve been doing a lot of reading and talking with friends about Lafreniere and one conclusion I am making is that he is hard to play against. Not Cam Neely but someone who does have a physical element in their game and does not back down from contact. That fills a very specific need on this team.

That’s what both of your top guys are going to bring to the table and why your teams look should be very different to Torontos for example.

Laf& Kakko will set the tone

 

[Thirty One]

Lapierre also had the Sidney Crosby Spine injury. I'd pass.

The only other player I know who had that was pretty good, so maybe that's a plus?

 

[mas0764]

I also haven't seen an answer to the question "Why isn't he a goalie?".

This isn't a video game. You can't just play players wherever you want. There are very real things that have to be done at each position. Sometimes these things are obvious, sometimes they are not. At lower levels this may not be a big deal, and some positions are easier to adapt to when coming from other positions. But at the pro level, there are little things that not only need to be known how to do, they also need to be instinctual.

Little things like how to approach a scrum against the boards, how/when to pass on your forehand/backhand in different situations. These things aren't always noticeable when watching.
The answer to "Why isn't he a center?" is the same as the answer to the question "Why isn't he a squirrel."

He's never been squirrel, he never learned to be a squirrel, he doesn't do squirrel things, and him acting like a squirrel doesn't mean he'd be a good squirrel.

Think it's a little different than that. Think I posted a video in which a guy scouting him says he thinks he ends up at center eventually.

I'm not saying he will, but there is clearly more of a chance of it happening than him becoming a squirrel.

 

[Thirty One]

Think it's a little different than that. Think I posted a video in which a guy scouting him says he thinks he ends up at center eventually.

I'm not saying he will, but there is clearly more of a chance of it happening than him becoming a squirrel.

I don't think he will either, I'm sure there's a good reason why he's been a wing thus far, but it's just not readily apparent to me in what little I've seen of him.

 

[ecemleafs]

With his injury issues I would stay far away from Lapierre.

why? weve had like 46 1st round picks in the past 4 years and we have a sure fire 1st overall. were probably the team that can most afford to take a swing on a talented center, that slipped due to injures.

 

[bleedblue94]

I’ve been doing a lot of reading and talking with friends about Lafreniere and one conclusion I am making is that he is hard to play against. Not Cam Neely but someone who does have a physical element in their game and does not back down from contact. That fills a very specific need on this team.

Leads right to comments of the team lacking pushback in games that weren't going their way. It's one thing to have bottom 6 players be hard to play against and lean back against the other team, but when your top players do it then there's no excuse for the rest of the team to come along with them. As much as I hate Boston they are a great example. When Chara and bergy are always pushing back and doing the little things in games it's hard for the rest of the team and prospects not to flow suit. It's a cultural thing. I mean watching pasta blocking shots yesterday and his evolution as a player beyond scoring is just terrific. Having top roster players with the X factor to them of work ethic, pushback, and sacrifice make it easier to build a culture, and I think that kind of culture has been in steady decline since AV's 2nd or 3rd year here

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

why? weve had like 46 1st round picks in the past 4 years and we have a sure fire 1st overall. were probably the team that can most afford to take a swing on a talented center, that slipped due to injures.

We're not talking about a knee or a shoulder. He's had head/neck/spine issues on multiple occasions.

If his medicals come back clean and you really, really like the player, fine, take a chance. The nature of his injuries are really worrisome and I'd feel more comfortable taking the risk on other players who may have different, more glaring holes in their game but at the end of the day, you can't improve or make an impact if you can't stay on the ice.


... I would still gamble on him over Zary/Holloway.

 

[mas0764]

why? weve had like 46 1st round picks in the past 4 years and we have a sure fire 1st overall. were probably the team that can most afford to take a swing on a talented center, that slipped due to injures.

Until we have another good bet at center in the system I'm not a big fan of gambling on an injury risk.

That being said I don't know enough about Lapierre to make any educated statements.

 

[mas0764]

If Holloway is there and we are picking 24th I guess I wouldn't hate it.

As long as he promises to play center.