Draft 2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part V

[Justin17]

Zary has a lot wrong with his skating, but plays the game very well otherwise. I do think at No. 20-24 it's a worthy gamble, but I think they should go after someone with more NHL styled frame.

Holloway is a player I think oozes a ton of potential, but just hasn't figured out the offense (or just had a mediocre season). I do think that his situation in Wisconsin stymied that a bit. But he's big, fast, can hit the body, be a pest and can still develop a top line offense to his arsenal. I think he is a definite possibility with their second pick. He could also still be a center at the pro level.

Wasn’t Holloway seen as a top 10 pick going into the season? He’s definitely shown high offensive potential in the past.

 

[Justin17]

Holloway I think gets residual concern from when people feared he'd be the Rangers top pick. There are concerns from fans that he has a lot of tools but no tool box. I don't agree with that assessment, but I can see where it comes from.

Zary is a kid who has concerns because there are questions as to whether his game transitions to the pro level. He's in this weird zone where a greater number of people don't see him as a top six forward at this point, but he doesn't necessarily leap out at them as a bottom six player either.

And you're going to see quite a bit of debate about guys who fall into one of three categories in the late first round through the third round.

The first category is guys who seem to have a very clear path and potential role to play in the NHL, but aren't necessarily top-line options.

The second is guys who have top line skill, but have questions marks about that skill translating to the higher levels and concerns about whether they could be used in any other role.

The third is guys who have scattered skills, but no one really knows what their path forward looks like. They haven't carved out a clear identity yet. They could be a second line option in 4 years, or heading toward a career in the ECHL or overseas.

Do you have any idea on which category the Rangers will be targeting?

 

[Edge]

Honestly, if Holloway was to turn into Kirk Matlby, I would take it and run.

Holloway, and to a lesser extent Greig and Cuylle , all fit the patterns of guys who can potentially bring value to a middle/bottom six role. These are the guys who filled out teams like Detroit back in the 90s, or even New Jersey. More recently, you saw teams like Chicago and Pittsburgh have valuable role players supporting their stars.

Holloway, to me, could be to the forward group what Lindgren is to the defense. At least in terms of impact. I think he brings size, speed and the ability to keep the opposition off-balance.

If the offense comes together, he's potentially a guy who can slide up into a top six role to compliment skilled players. But if not, I would't rule out him having a somewhat similar career to Manny Malhotra if he ends up sticking at center. And if you can get 15 goals, 35-40 points, that's a solid contribution on top of the other things he does.

 

[Ola]

In addition 2, there is a ton of hockey played as we write. Some pre-season games between top tier teams are on video -- what about all other games?

Sweden U20 is playing Almtuna on Thursday. Several draft eligible players on the roster. I marked it in my calendar and notified the miss that I am going to a game on Thursday (could have been wednesday too). But as I said it I just realized, darn they will of course not bring in any spectators. I can probably get in anyway through some connections. But it must be really hard for the scouts right now. We all know how big movement you have with these kids. Many of them, you could potentially get a 2-3 month glimps into their D+1 season. Under normal circumstances, you would kill for that.

But how important won't connections be for this draft? To be able to talk to coaches. Who have just blown everyone away by growing/developing over the summer? And so forth. Gorton should be throwing checks around, signing up "consultants" as temporary scouts from all bigger european markets. Somehow I don't think we even remotely are thinking about these things...

 

[Savant]

Would be happy with Holloway at Carolina pick (if Rangers don’t trade that pick for a Vet), but I don’t think he gets there, and I’m not sure I’m trading up for him.

 

[aufheben]

Trading with Anaheim is interesting.

I traded #23 and Jarvis fell to #31 lol

‪(1) Alexis Lafreniere, LW‬
‪(31) Seth Jarvis, RW‬
‪(36) Zion Nybeck, RW/LW‬
‪(72) Jaromir Pytlik, C‬
‪(86) Carson Bantle, LW‬
‪(134) Isaak Phillips, LD‬
‪(165) Blake Biondi, C‬
‪(196) Jackson Kunz, C‬
‪(197) Winter Wallace, C‬
‪(205) Lassi Lehtinen, G‬

 

[Joey Bones]

Wasn’t Holloway seen as a top 10 pick going into the season? He’s definitely shown high offensive potential in the past.

Definitely and I think he still has that capability.

For starters, he came in as a true freshman jumping from the AJHL. Most players that do that take their D+1/D+2 season before being freshman at ages 19-21. The fact that he was able to play right away in the NCAA as a first year draft eligible is hard to do. The last one to do that was, I think, Makar.

Then you factor in Wisconsin's coaching missteps with their all around game and players. He wasn't the only one who lacked on that team and it seemed he was trying to adhere to what the coaching staff wanted him to play as.... a two-way grinder. I think he has more of a power forward game to him, so learning a new system could've took away the offensive ability. So in that sense, the offense is still there to determine.

But as for his pro game, he's big, fast and a pest to play against while still having a good grasp on the open spaces. He's the closest player that I've seen be resembled to Tom Wilson and I think he's worth the gamble with NYR's second 1st.

 

[Edge]

Do you have any idea on which category the Rangers will be targeting?

If you would've asked a month ago, I would've said they are going for skill and that big homerun swing, especially if they felt they were getting more of a second line type with their top pick.

Today, I'm honestly not so sure. I'd say the goal is figuring out how to have a first round that produces a pair of prospects who eventually play something like 2,000 combined games in the NHL.

In that sense, they might want someone who has upside, but a very a clear role, as oppossed to someone who has more perceived offensive upside, but a lot more question marks.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Trading with Anaheim is interesting.

I traded #23 and Jarvis fell to #31 lol

‪(1) Alexis Lafreniere, LW‬
‪(31) Seth Jarvis, RW‬
‪(36) Zion Nybeck, RW/LW‬
‪(72) Jaromir Pytlik, C‬
‪(86) Carson Bantle, LW‬
‪(134) Isaak Phillips, LD‬
‪(165) Blake Biondi, C‬
‪(196) Jackson Kunz, C‬
‪(197) Winter Wallace, C‬
‪(205) Lassi Lehtinen, G‬

I literally just take Dmitri Shesin at the 180-190 range every time for this reason:

 

[Thirty One]

Trading with Anaheim is interesting.

I traded #23 and Jarvis fell to #31 lol

‪(1) Alexis Lafreniere, LW‬
‪(31) Seth Jarvis, RW‬
‪(36) Zion Nybeck, RW/LW‬
‪(72) Jaromir Pytlik, C‬
‪(86) Carson Bantle, LW‬
‪(134) Isaak Phillips, LD‬
‪(165) Blake Biondi, C‬
‪(196) Jackson Kunz, C‬
‪(197) Winter Wallace, C‬
‪(205) Lassi Lehtinen, G‬

Hot dang.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

And because others are posting their mocks, I just did one. Feel free to let me have it

‪1. Alexis Lafreniere, LW‬
‪24. Marat Khusnutdinov, C
‪72. Eamon Powell, RD
‪85. Joel Blomqvist, G
‪103. Oskar Magnusson, C
‪134. Blake Biondi, C
‪165. Carsen Richels, RW
‪196. Oliver Tarnstrom, C
‪197. Adam Wilsby, LD
‪206. Pavel Tyutnev, C/W

Let you have it? There's a lot to like here.

Khusnutdinov a lot of us like, Eamon Powell is my favorite mid round target. Zac Jones-esque. He really plays such a grown up style of hockey. Blomqvist is a great goalie to add to our pipeline and Biondi is a nice boom or bust player. Similar to Kovacs, Gropp, Duclair and Buchnevich. A player who dropped but was once projected as a 1st round pick. Lastly, Wilsby is great value in the 7th

 

[Edge]

I literally just take Dmitri Shesin at the 180-190 range every time for this reason:
View attachment 361966

He's regularly a guy I look for in the sim.

The site is fun. But I can't help it's going to feel a little disappointing when guys like Mercer, Jarvis, etc. are all off the board by 15 and we've become used to snagging them at 23 and beyond using the simulation.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If you're looking for middle 6 bite/grit with some scoring potential, I like Greig wayyy more than Holloway.

He isn't as big or fast, but hes actually going to those tough areas and being disruptive already despite his size. Holloway very much plays the game on the outside and I know that there are older, stronger players in the NCAA, but he pretty much has a man's body already.

I like Greig's skills more than Holloways too.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

He's regularly a guy I look for in the sim.

The site is fun. But I can't help it's going to feel a little disappointing when guys like Mercer, Jarvis, etc. are all off the board by 15 and we've become used to snagging them at 23 and beyond using the simulation.

I know. I use it way too much honestly. But I agree. I feel as if a lot of defenseman go too high in the draftsims I do that aren’t Drysdale/Sanderson.

 

[Thirty One]

Thoughts on Jeremie Biakabutuka? When I was in junior high, my brother had a Tim Biakabutuka jersey and I borrowed it from him and lent it out and I never got it back. It was a mistake in judgement.

 

[Edge]

If you're looking for middle 6 bite/grit with some scoring potential, I like Greig wayyy more than Holloway.

He isn't as big or fast, but hes actually going to those tough areas and being disruptive already despite his size. Holloway very much plays the game on the outside and I know that there are older, stronger players in the NCAA, but he pretty much has a man's body already.

I like Greig's skills more than Holloways too.

I think I'm probably the opposite.

I like Greig, but he also resembles a lot of scrappy, under-sized WHL kids who sometimes struggle to play the same game when the opposition is a few inches taller, 20 pounds heavier, and a whole lot faster.

I think he's kid who gets the most out of abilities, but I don't know if there's a lot that checks in as being much higher than above average. In other words, I don't know if he has any one or two skills that qualifies as excellent.

That's why I've tended to slot him into more of an early second round position. Like Jarvis, he's going to hustle his way into the NHL.

I think if we're talking about a third line role in the NHL, Holloway's larger frame, with high-end skating, probably gives him an edge for that type of role. I think they could both do it, but I think Holloway's upside is to be a bit more dynamic.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Who do you like more: Guhle or Schneider?

Definitely Guhle.

Schnieder in an easy hearbeat.

 

[Edge]

And because others are posting their mocks, I just did one. Feel free to let me have it

‪1. Alexis Lafreniere, LW‬
‪24. Marat Khusnutdinov, C
‪72. Eamon Powell, RD
‪85. Joel Blomqvist, G
‪103. Oskar Magnusson, C
‪134. Blake Biondi, C
‪165. Carsen Richels, RW
‪196. Oliver Tarnstrom, C
‪197. Adam Wilsby, LD
‪206. Pavel Tyutnev, C/W

I think all the guys are in realistic ranges as to where they can be.

I would say Khusnutdinov is definitely in play at 24.

Powell and Blomqvist probably repesent the potential types of picks we could see from the Rangers in that round, and the rest of the draft has a good mix of potential that will need to a few years to determine.

 

[Chytilmania]

Holloway, and to a lesser extent Greig and Cuylle , all fit the patterns of guys who can potentially bring value to a middle/bottom six role. These are the guys who filled out teams like Detroit back in the 90s, or even New Jersey. More recently, you saw teams like Chicago and Pittsburgh have valuable role players supporting their stars.

Holloway, to me, could be to the forward group what Lindgren is to the defense. At least in terms of impact. I think he brings size, speed and the ability to keep the opposition off-balance.

If the offense comes together, he's potentially a guy who can slide up into a top six role to compliment skilled players. But if not, I would't rule out him having a somewhat similar career to Manny Malhotra if he ends up sticking at center. And if you can get 15 goals, 35-40 points, that's a solid contribution on top of the other things he does.

Agreed, and I think he can be what the coaches are trying to get Howden to be.

 

[Edge]

Who do you like more: Guhle or Schneider?

This is probably a good example of the path vs. potential debate that we'll see in this draft.

Schneider probably has a more clear path and defined role as a prospect. He's a two-way guy, with a physical side, who gets the puck out of his zone and to someone who sets up the play around the other end. He's capable of joing that play as well in a support role.

Guhle is a kid who potentially had more offense to provide and is a guy who you look to set up plays in the offensive zone. He's not as strong as Schneider on the defensive side of things and probably a little less set as a prospect.

 

[Edge]

Agreed, and I think he can be what the coaches are trying to get Howden to be.

And one thing I wouldn't discount in this draft, is the Rangers desire to achieve organizational balance.

It's not to say some options don't have skills or finesse, so much as its to say that I think they might be not be valuing pure offensive skills as the primary deciding factor.

Last year, the focus on defenseman higher in the draft was driven by finding guys who could get the puck out of the zone, even if they weren't necessarily the one leading the charge the other way. When the 20th pick was moved, you saw echoes of that in the second with Robertson.

This year, I suspect they might be more comfortable finding a guy who is a high-tier complimentary player, as oppossed to a guy who might be a little more lethal, but might not be able to translate that lethality in the same role in the NHL. You might see that reflected in the first and second, before they take bigger swings in the third.

 

[UnSandvich]

I'm not sure i'd do the trade on draft day, b/c i don't think the board would line up as well as it did for me, but I traded 23 & 134 to ANA for 31 & 36

1. Lafreniere
31. C/LW Lukas Reichel- Eisbaren Berlin (DEL)
36. C Marat Khuznutdinov- SKA-1946 St. Petersburg (MHL)
72. RD Eamon Powell- US NTDP
86. G Joel Blomqvist- Karpat U20 (Jr. A SM-Liiga)
103. RD Brock Faber- US NTDP
165. C Juuso Maenpaa- Jokerit U20 (Jr. A SM-Liiga)
196. RD Mason Langenbrunner- Eden Prarie High (USHS)
197. RW Carsen Richels- Blaine High (USHS)
205. LD Hugo Styf- MODO Hockey J20 (SuperElit)

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think I'm probably the opposite.

I like Greig, but he also resembles a lot of scrappy, under-sized WHL kids who sometimes struggle to play the same game when the opposition is a few inches taller, 20 pounds heavier, and a whole lot faster.

I think he's kid who gets the most out of abilities, but I don't know if there's a lot that checks in as being much higher than above average. In other words, I don't know if he has any one or two skills that qualifies as excellent.

That's why I've tended to slot him into more of an early second round position. Like Jarvis, he's going to hustle his way into the NHL.

I think if we're talking about a third line role in the NHL, Holloway's larger frame, with high-end skating, probably gives him an edge for that type of role. I think they could both do it, but I think Holloway's upside is to be a bit more dynamic.

Yeah, these are the guys who usually make it and become pretty effective.

My position on this would be that I would imagine that Greig has a ton of more physical maturation ahead of him than Holloway does (hes a pretty thick kid already.) His production as the season went on was about on par with what you'd expect out of a top guy coming out of the WHL. His skill level is really underrated, the hands and shot are pretty good.

Re: Holloway and his tools - It's great to have size and speed, but if you don't utilize them then it's as if you don't really have those advantages. If you take him you're gambling on him figuring it out to some extent, where as with Greig you're really just waiting for the body to catch up to the rest of his game - He does everything I wish Holloway already did and how often do you see guys go from perimeter players to someone who dictates the trenches in the line of fire?

 

[Edge]

Yeah, these are the guys who usually make it and become pretty effective.

My position on this would be that I would imagine that Greig has a ton of more physical maturation ahead of him than Holloway does (hes a pretty thick kid already.) His production as the season went on was about on par with what you'd expect out of a top guy coming out of the WHL. His skill level is really underrated, the hands and shot are pretty good.

Re: Holloway and his tools - It's great to have size and speed, but if you don't utilize them then it's as if you don't really have those advantages. If you take him you're gambling on him figuring it out to some extent, where as with Greig you're really just waiting for the body to catch up to the rest of his game - He does everything I wish Holloway already did and how often do you see guys go from perimeter players to someone who dictates the trenches in the line of fire?

I guess I don't agree with the assessment that Holloway didn't use his size and speed. I also didn't find him to be a perimeter player. I found him to be engaged, and willing to go into the trenches --- depending on the role he was playing and the game situation. I also think the coaches had him ready positioned for breakout passes because they wanted to utilize his speed. So that was more of a team strategy flaw, then a hesitation on Holloway's part to do those things.

Personally, I think Holloway's season for a first round pick was solid. The offense just wasn't on par with what people expected, which would've seen him challenging to go in the top 10. But when you start getting into the late teens and 20s, I think he's right there in that mix.

I'd argue that if Holloway went to the WHL, he probably posts numbers similar to Greig or maybe a little higher.

So it really comes down the expectations. Will he match the projections he had coming into the 2019-20 season? Hard to say.

Does he look like he could be a solid third liner? You bet.

And that's probably the difference between Greig and Holloway for me. If both guys project as nice third line types, Holloway has a few more of the tools that could make him a little more than a nice third line player. Whereas I feel Greig kind of is what he is. And that's not a bad thing, I just don't know if there's room for a lot more beyond that.

 

[mas0764]

Holloway I think gets residual concern from when people feared he'd be the Rangers top pick. There are concerns from fans that he has a lot of tools but no tool box. I don't agree with that assessment, but I can see where it comes from.

Zary is a kid who has concerns because there are questions as to whether his game transitions to the pro level. He's in this weird zone where a greater number of people don't see him as a top six forward at this point, but he doesn't necessarily leap out at them as a bottom six player either.

And you're going to see quite a bit of debate about guys who fall into one of three categories in the late first round through the third round.

The first category is guys who seem to have a very clear path and potential role to play in the NHL, but aren't necessarily top-line options.

The second is guys who have top line skill, but have questions marks about that skill translating to the higher levels and concerns about whether they could be used in any other role.

The third is guys who have scattered skills, but no one really knows what their path forward looks like. They haven't carved out a clear identity yet. They could be a second line option in 4 years, or heading toward a career in the ECHL or overseas.

I like Holloway a lot better now that he's

1) relegated to second pick status, not first, and

2) now that our roster construction is way more likely to be offense-driven-by-wings with the center a dirty work facilitator rather than a necessary creator.