Matt4776
Registered User
- May 8, 2009
- 2,896
- 690
Can we have a name-change thread so we know who is who following the lottery win? I'm already so lost 
2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part IV
- Thread starter Krams
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That is where I come down on him. The more I want to like him, the more I worry about the lack of will to work at something.
Think you have it the other way around. A team with playoff aspirations is not going to trade away a 50 or so point top-6 winger for a prospect who at best will be in a position to help the team maybe 3 years down the line. That is what is short sighted.
Buchnevich may or may not have a future here (I also think that he will be moved) but if he is traded, then it will be to help or diversify the starting line up. Not to significantly weaken it. That would be extremely short sighted.
Really? How do you intend to replace the 110 points that just came out of the starting lineup?
And they are not trading Kreider anymore than they are not trading Trouba.
TheTimTamSlammerMan
Registered User
I really hope this kid shoots and won’t get too cute with the passes. His shot is wicked. And seems like he can get the shot off from any angle.
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
- 24,767
- 27,709
I'm excited. Usually when the Rangers draft a player of Lafreniere's character they have no other discernible hockey skills.
# UseLafreniereRightQuinn
Calad
Section 422
I agree that its unlikely we are getting an established top 6 center for our spare parts. Yes Buch, Strome, Georgie, TDA are some great talents but from the outside looking in other GMs/Teams/Fans will instantly recognize these players as unnecessary for our core and will not be willing to pay a premium for any of them just cause we wanna make a deal. This team will have to really like these particular pieces. Maybe Edmonton will trade 14 for Buch since they were close to dealing 8 for him last year. Perhaps their early exit (and poor defense) makes them reconsider.
This offseason will be almost as pivotal as last years. Considering the excitement of the organization with winning Lafreniere, its important not to shoot our shot too early. As showcased in our quick exit, this team still has a lot of holes. Our depth is horrid, our left side D is sorely lacking, and most importantly, we are carrying ~23 million in capspace that will be freed up after next season. There is no reason to rush to solve the 2C situation this year because until we have real cap space to work with to fill out the roster we aren't going to be making any serious runs. We can plug that hole with Strome via arbitration next season, or see if Chytil can continue his growth and take the reins. If the opportunity arises and a player is being run out of town then we can try to pounce, maybe Sean Monahan if calgary has an early exit, for example.
I still think the best option for this team is to wait and see what next season brings for the young talent we have, see who fits here and who doesnt. After next season we will hopefully still have the expansion draft and we can take advantage of a team that backed themselves into a corner, or we can see what cap space we have leftover after resigning whatever pieces left that need a new contract (Chytil, Buch, Lindgren, Gautier, Howden are all RFA after next season) and sign a ufa C like RNH.
Whatever Gorton and co ends up deciding to pursue, i love the possibilities that are opened up now after winning the Laf lottery and trust they will steer this ship in the right direction
This is a problem with ALL top players, even Crosby/McDavid/Mackinnon/Panarin/Insert top player here are guilty of this. As long as those moments are minimized and not in areas where we can get hurt by a TO, I would hope that he continues to use his creativity.
He averaged 5+ Shots per game this last year. Yes that was in the CHL, but 5 is a ton.
LeetchisGod
This is a bad hockey team.
The kind of player that we have waited forever to draft and people want to throw it away. It's pure lunacy.
How does Alexis Lafreniere compare to Jagr as a prospect? I know it's hard to compare him to an all-time great but great hands, more of a playmaker at wing, but can score well sounds like Jagr.
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
- 24,767
- 27,709
I've seen Marian Hossa and Vinny Lecavalier thrown around as comps. I think it's important for the fanbase to appreciate that he's not considered at the level of Crosby/Ovechkin/McDavid.
Well, not sure Jagr was either at the time of his draft (obviously whatever the equivalent of those players was at that time), but fair point.
I always felt like Lecavalier didn't reach his potential until the end of his career, would I be wrong?
Also, I always thought of Hossa as a great complimentary star when you had guys like Crosby, Malkin Kane, Toews, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg on your team. Never thought of him as a franchise player.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
He wasn't, but he's going to end up in the hall of fame.
Aren't we banking on Alexis Lafreniere to be a franchise player? Franchise player doesn't have to be generational.
Well I said that I didn't like the comparison to begin with.
I think they said the same thing about Kakko. So two Forsbergs on this team?
Kakko will never have the meanness of Forsberg. Lafreniere's attitude comes closer.
- Jul 16, 2005
- 14,857
- 13,012
I don't think I do have it the other way around. I mean, granted, maybe what is important to the organization is the playoff revenue from a round or two next year, but that isn't what should be important. Winning a cup eventually should the most important thing, followed by sustaining long term contender status.
I believe two things about next year's team - it will be too good to tank again (I have believed that regardless of Lafreniere), but also not good enough to win it all or even go deep into the playoffs. Yes, "anything can happen," but you should not make roster decisions on the basis of things that are unlikely but possible.
Keeping Buch is about maintaining a 40-50 point player - and maybe less if he is supplanted in the top-6 or PP by Kakko, Lafreniere, and/or Kravtsov so that you can be better next season. That's all well and good under normal circumstances because I'm not trying to give away assets for unknown futures simply to tank anymore, but I AM still trying to address a very specific need (1b/2 center of the future).
Keeping Buch makes you more likely to win a playoff round next year but probably not substantially more likely to win a Cup next year or any year. In fact, keeping him probably only means he's around for one more year anyway as we will not give him a long term deal when we have wings who are about to pass him on the depth chart (Kakko, Kravtsov, Lafreniere) or who have already been paid (Kreider, Panarin).
If he can be liquidated right now for an asset that could be here as part of a cup contender instead (so, a hypothetical where he could be traded along with the Carolina pick for a higher pick to select Lundell, or, as part of a package for Krebs or Glass, for instance), there is almost no rationale that makes long term sense for keeping him for another year or two then letting him walk or be traded then.
If you can't get the right piece, I'm not advocating moving him just to move him. If you can't bring back a long term piece for him (so perhaps a young cost controlled LD would also count), then fine, keep him, and if he walks away, well, you couldn't get anything for him anyway.
But if he can bring back a long term piece, his contribution to next year's team is of extremely limited value in comparison.
- Jul 16, 2005
- 14,857
- 13,012
I mean, if Lundell is there, 14 for Buch and the Carolina pick is a no brainer for me.
Even if he's not, I probably do that deal for Jarvis or Mercer too as both can be centers. I think it is that important to get a long term center into this system NOW.
We will not have this chance again, where we can just trade up in the draft. Our picks are gonna be low, and I do not foresee us pawning off too many more assets at the deadline to pick up extra firsts anymore.
But a lot of that depth is going to simply develop organically or make the roster because it's already in our system.
Fox will get better. DeAngelo will get better. Trouba should be better not tied to an anchor. Lindgren is only going to get better. Lundkvist, Miller, Jones, Robertson, Hajek, et al, are on the way, from that group you are gonna get some good players. The D's two biggest problem, all the analytics show, was Smith and Staal. They will be addition by subtraction. Plugging in the kids will immediately improve the D dramatically.
Same goes for our problems at forward, frankly. There was simply too much dead weight - McKegg was awful, Kakko was awful, Howden was awful.
Getting the terrible players out of the lineup will immediately make the Rangers more competitive, and that happens simply as you insert Lafreniere and Kravtsov, it squeezes out two very bad players. Now, maybe Kravtsov in a rookie year is just as bad as Kakko is, but the point is, he will organically improve. That is not something that needs a personnel acquisition to fix, just time.
Center is where there is no long term solution. Even assuming Zibanejad is a mid-term fixture (4-5 years), he has concussion and injury issues and I do not see him playing at a high level into his mid or late 30s.
Getting a future 1b/2 center is of the utmost importance to this organization. We can pay 140 cents on the dollar, as I've seen posited elsewhere, and we have the assets to do it. Do not clutch a Buchnevich or Strome to your chest worrying about the outcome of 2020-21. They will make the playoffs with or without him and probably cannot win a cup with or without him.
If he can be parlayed to a team who needs him more in exchange for the answer to a long term problem for us, it's a no-brainer.
This is not about revenue. This is about competing. The pure asset gathering stage is done.
How does having Panarin, Kreider, Trouba all long term in addition to young talents like Kakko, Fox & soon to be Lafreniere signal that this organization is not building for having a contender that contends for multiple Cups?
Sorry, but bull. There was no way that this team would go into tank mode next year. The rebuild has several stages, and you seem fighting tooth and nail to stay in the first one. This year the team took an unexpected step forward. Next year they should be a bubble team, competing all year for the playoffs. That is what should happen in the team's evolution.
[/QUOTE]Keeping Buch is about maintaining a 40-50 point player - and maybe less if he is supplanted in the top-6 or PP by Kakko, Lafreniere, and/or Kravtsov so that you can be better next season. That's all well and good under normal circumstances because I'm not trying to give away assets for unknown futures simply to tank anymore, but I AM still trying to address a very specific need (1b/2 center of the future).[/QUOTE]
The chances of any of those supplanting him next year is almost nil. First of all, Lafreniere plays LW. Second of all, can Kravstov first actually make the team let alone hold down a top 6 role? Lastly, can Kakko actually show that he is ready to supplant him?
You are not trying to give him away for unknowns? Did I misunderstand you? What 2nd line center are you trying to bring in? Who is it?
I am all for trading him and do believe that it will probably happen, but please tell me how having him on the team lessens the chances to win a Cup next year or the year after that?
Why do you insist on lumping in Lafreniere into this discussion? He plays on the OPPOSITE side of the ice. And how exactly is Karvstov about to pass him? As for Kakko, as soon as he hits 45 or so points, we can talk about how he is getting ready to supplant him. Until then, this is not at all a factor.
You just said that you are not trading him for unknowns. Then you turn right around and want to trade him for a draft pick or a prospect who is nowhere near the NHL.
Trading him for a young, established LD is FAR different than trading him for Lundell or Krebs.
Pretty sure that every single playoff contending team would have the polar opposite view of you.
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