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2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part IV

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I second the Eamon Powell talk, he'd be a great pickup in the mid rounds.

There is a couple defensemen I've singled out as targets I really like for mid round picks. Powell is one, I'd also say Brock Faber, Mason Lagenbrunner, and Samuel Knazko
 
A trade that keeps coming into my mind as being possible is Georgiev + our earliest first to move up with a team that wants to take Askarov.

Say that we're picking 15th and Chicago, for example, are sitting 9th and are leaning towards Askarov.

Does it makes sense for them to trade the 9th pick for the 15th + Georgiev + maybe a later rounder as well?

1. They don't trade back; they get:
Askarov

2. They trade back and Askarov isn't taken; they get:
Georgiev
Askarov
Later round pick

3. They trade back and Askarov is taken; they get:
Georgiev
Solid prospect (maybe a Holloway, Mercer, or Gunler level guy)
Later round pick

It seems to make a lot of sense on the surface to me. What do you guys think?
 
Harbour Dog said:
A trade that keeps coming into my mind as being possible is Georgiev + our earliest first to move up with a team that wants to take Askarov.

Say that we're picking 15th and Chicago, for example, are sitting 9th and are leaning towards Askarov.

Does it makes sense for them to trade the 9th pick for the 15th + Georgiev + maybe a later rounder as well?

1. They don't trade back; they get:
Askarov

2. They trade back and Askarov isn't taken; they get:
Georgiev
Askarov
Later round pick

3. They trade back and Askarov is taken; they get:
Georgiev
Solid prospect (maybe a Holloway, Mercer, or Gunler level guy)
Later round pick

It seems to make a lot of sense on the surface to me. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
No guarantee Askarov makes it to #15. If he’s the guy they want they should draft him.
 
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bobbop said:
No guarantee Askarov makes it to #15. If he’s the guy they want they should draft him.
Click to expand...

When I spoke to some scouts last year at the draft from different teams, we discussed trading down, and some of them said that they don't really trade down anymore because the rewards in terms of some mid-round pick, do not outweigh the risk of missing out on your guy. Teams would rather just pick their guy instead of trading down a few spots. When you see a trade, it's almost always initiated by the team willing to trade up to chase their guy
 
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bobbop said:
No guarantee Askarov makes it to #15. If he’s the guy they want they should draft him.
Click to expand...

If he's the guy they want they should fire the GM and scouting staff and get new ones.

Amazing Kreiderman said:
When I spoke to some scouts last year at the draft from different teams, we discussed trading down, and some of them said that they don't really trade down anymore because the rewards in terms of some mid-round pick, do not outweigh the risk of missing out on your guy. Teams would rather just pick their guy instead of trading down a few spots. When you see a trade, it's almost always initiated by the team willing to trade up to chase their guy
Click to expand...

Tells you all you need to know about the quality of NHL management and their understanding of statistics/draft history that they think "their guy" is so much more likely to make it than they should.
 
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Harbour Dog said:
A trade that keeps coming into my mind as being possible is Georgiev + our earliest first to move up with a team that wants to take Askarov.

Say that we're picking 15th and Chicago, for example, are sitting 9th and are leaning towards Askarov.

Does it makes sense for them to trade the 9th pick for the 15th + Georgiev + maybe a later rounder as well?

1. They don't trade back; they get:
Askarov

2. They trade back and Askarov isn't taken; they get:
Georgiev
Askarov
Later round pick

3. They trade back and Askarov is taken; they get:
Georgiev
Solid prospect (maybe a Holloway, Mercer, or Gunler level guy)
Later round pick

It seems to make a lot of sense on the surface to me. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

If he's Chicago's, or any teams' guy, they should take him. Chicago is sitting at a good spot for any faller.

I keep wondering if LA would do the unthinkable and draft Askarov at No. 2. It's wild thought that might have little steam.
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
When I spoke to some scouts last year at the draft from different teams, we discussed trading down, and some of them said that they don't really trade down anymore because the rewards in terms of some mid-round pick, do not outweigh the risk of missing out on your guy. Teams would rather just pick their guy instead of trading down a few spots. When you see a trade, it's almost always initiated by the team willing to trade up to chase their guy
Click to expand...

sounds like many teams fall in love with their guy too much, worrying them might miss out on him if they trade down.
 
I'm not sure that I agree with the idea of trading away Georgiev at the draft to move up or to fill in a gap between the picks we have. I get that he's an awkward fit on our roster next year, the draft is a convenient time to trade someone, and he could help us get players we like in the draft, but my understanding is that the Rangers think he could be a special goaltender and I think their goalie appraisal and development skills have been really good.

If that's the case, I think the best thing to do is to suck up an awkward situation next year, take a little risk on Georgiev's development, and try to develop him into an elite player who would yield a premium return. I get that it's not an ideal situation next year and there's a chance Georgiev doesn't develop well and we could end up getting less for him, but I think the upside of being able to trade him away as a premium player for a huge return is substantial enough that it's worth taking the risk, especially given the Rangers track record of developing goalies.
 
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Kakko Schmakko said:
sounds like many teams fall in love with their guy too much, worrying them might miss out on him if they trade down.
Click to expand...

Well, that is what happens once you get past the top-5. Fans often look at draft rankings and take it as gospel. As if it's a consensus list teams should stick to. That is just not the case.

These scouting departments have spent thousands of hours each watching players, talking to them, to their coaches, to players close to the team they play for. They don't just look at a ranking and go "Oh, Johnny McPuckerby is ranked 21st. We should draft him". That's what fans do.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
Well, that is what happens once you get past the top-5. Fans often look at draft rankings and take it as gospel. As if it's a consensus list teams should stick to. That is just not the case.

These scouting departments have spent thousands of hours each watching players, talking to them, to their coaches, to players close to the team they play for. They don't just look at a ranking and go "Oh, Johnny McPuckerby is ranked 21st. We should draft him". That's what fans do.
Click to expand...



The fans do rely on rankings while those putting together those rankings aren’t too far behind these so called experts. I’ll give the NHL props for doing better in Round 1 as far as the names being drafted yet all these hours of video and interviews, etc isn’t much different than the interview, reference checks and background investigations for hiring people with limited, if any, experience in the business world. You don’t know for sure.

Quite often info gathering and inspection group aren’t even experts. They just had no problem living on the road and watching sports with each day closing with a seat at the bar.
 
pblawr said:
I'm not sure that I agree with the idea of trading away Georgiev at the draft to move up or to fill in a gap between the picks we have. I get that he's an awkward fit on our roster next year, the draft is a convenient time to trade someone, and he could help us get players we like in the draft, but my understanding is that the Rangers think he could be a special goaltender and I think their goalie appraisal and development skills have been really good.

If that's the case, I think the best thing to do is to suck up an awkward situation next year, take a little risk on Georgiev's development, and try to develop him into an elite player who would yield a premium return. I get that it's not an ideal situation next year and there's a chance Georgiev doesn't develop well and we could end up getting less for him, but I think the upside of being able to trade him away as a premium player for a huge return is substantial enough that it's worth taking the risk, especially given the Rangers track record of developing goalies.
Click to expand...
But what’s a huge return for a premium goalie? A first maybe?
 
pblawr said:
I'm not sure that I agree with the idea of trading away Georgiev at the draft to move up or to fill in a gap between the picks we have. I get that he's an awkward fit on our roster next year, the draft is a convenient time to trade someone, and he could help us get players we like in the draft, but my understanding is that the Rangers think he could be a special goaltender and I think their goalie appraisal and development skills have been really good.

If that's the case, I think the best thing to do is to suck up an awkward situation next year, take a little risk on Georgiev's development, and try to develop him into an elite player who would yield a premium return. I get that it's not an ideal situation next year and there's a chance Georgiev doesn't develop well and we could end up getting less for him, but I think the upside of being able to trade him away as a premium player for a huge return is substantial enough that it's worth taking the risk, especially given the Rangers track record of developing goalies.
Click to expand...
It's gong to be difficult for Georgiev to ascend to an elite level playing behind Igor.
 
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GeorgeKaplan said:
But what’s a huge return for a premium goalie? A first maybe?
Click to expand...

Cory Schneider got the 9th pick, Varlamov got the 11th pick and a 2nd, Frederik Andersen got a 1st and a 2nd, Martin Jones got a 1st and a legitimate prospect, Robin Lehner got the 21st pick. So something in the range of a lottery pick to a first plus a material add on has been a pretty standard return over the last 10 years.

By the way, those deals have yielded Bo Horvat, Filip Forsberg, Colin White, Sam Steel, Maxime Comtois, Trent Frederick, and Sean Kuraly.
 
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bobbop said:
Ottawa at #5 perhaps?
Click to expand...

They have depth with Kevin Mandolese and Mads Sogaard in their system, but it's absolutely not a given for either of them to be a capable starter yet. Askarov would be the best keeper in their pipeline, so yeah I could see it with No. 5.
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
Well, that is what happens once you get past the top-5. Fans often look at draft rankings and take it as gospel. As if it's a consensus list teams should stick to. That is just not the case.

These scouting departments have spent thousands of hours each watching players, talking to them, to their coaches, to players close to the team they play for. They don't just look at a ranking and go "Oh, Johnny McPuckerby is ranked 21st. We should draft him". That's what fans do.
Click to expand...

Didn't Johnny McPuckerby, play 3rd base for the Detroit Tigers in the 1950's ;)
 
I can't really see a team going after Georgiev and offering up a 1st round pick. He's not quite on the level of guys like Schneider, Jones, Varlamov, etc at the time of their trades. Could see a team with an early 2nd going after him, but you gotta think the Rangers will explore their options for a roster player before they settle for a pick. Curious to see if Toronto cooled off on getting Georgie since they picked up Campbell and are completely screwed cap-wise.
 
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Trxjw said:
I can't really see a team going after Georgiev and offering up a 1st round pick. He's not quite on the level of guys like Schneider, Jones, Varlamov, etc at the time of their trades. Could see a team with an early 2nd going after him, but you gotta think the Rangers will explore their options for a roster player before they settle for a pick. Curious to see if Toronto cooled off on getting Georgie since they picked up Campbell and are completely screwed cap-wise.
Click to expand...

wait until his performance next season.

I would rather keep Georgiev as 1B to Shesterkin who might be less durable than go with Lundqvist as a backup after he posted a sub .500 record, looks old and unhappy. Not a good attitude to have.
 
Trxjw said:
I can't really see a team going after Georgiev and offering up a 1st round pick. He's not quite on the level of guys like Schneider, Jones, Varlamov, etc at the time of their trades. Could see a team with an early 2nd going after him, but you gotta think the Rangers will explore their options for a roster player before they settle for a pick. Curious to see if Toronto cooled off on getting Georgie since they picked up Campbell and are completely screwed cap-wise.
Click to expand...

Add in that other teams the Rangers have 3 goalies which is not a desirable situation. They the Rangers would like/kind of have to move him.
 
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