2020 Draft - Pick #187 - Kienan Draper

[MBH]

If it's a guess either way, why are people who think differently inherently "wrong," and you're inherently "right?"

Why would you say a random Russian player pick is worse than a pick who, especially now, has something to prove? Just because you want to be right?

Jesus, the Ego is a hell of a drug, I guess.

Look at your logic.
You're acting like Draper, and the Russian kid, is the the only picked in Round 7 who'd have "something to prove."

They all have something to prove.

I think there were players FAR better than Draper. Period.
And my guess is if Kris Draper wasn't in the front office, we'd have a better prospect out of that pick.
Though, maybe not, considering how little I liked their last 3 picks, overall.

That said, it's a seventh round pick and I don't much care.
But that doesn't mean I have to concede the argument.

I'd be a hell of a lot more impressed if we'd taken shots at Rashevsky, Gogolev, Johannesson, Pashin, Seely, or Persson.

I definitely see picks 63, 97, 156, 187 and 203 as not exciting picks. Really love what Carolina was doing in the same range.

 

[RedMenace]

Look at your logic.
You're acting like Draper, and the Russian kid, is the the only picked in Round 7 who'd have "something to prove."

They all have something to prove.

I think there were players FAR better than Draper. Period.
And my guess is if Kris Draper wasn't in the front office, we'd have a better prospect out of that pick.
Though, maybe not, considering how little I liked their last 3 picks, overall.

That said, it's a seventh round pick and I don't much care.
But that doesn't mean I have to concede the argument.

I'd be a hell of a lot more impressed if we'd taken shots at Rashevsky, Gogolev, Johannesson, Pashin, Seely, or Persson.

I definitely see picks 63, 97, 156, 187 and 203 as not exciting picks. Really love what Carolina was doing in the same range.

So why pick this hill on which to die?

Why does it have to be an "argument?" It's a 7th round pick. Per Dobber's, the odds of a 3rd round pick being an impact player in the NHL are only 2.5x as much (25%) and at that point, what does it matter? One out of every four (25%) 3rd-round picks become "impact players;" one out of every five (20%) 4th-rounders; one out of every seven (15%, or 6.66, actually) 5th-to-6th rounders; and one out of every ten (10%) 7th-rounders.

I'm honestly curious to know your thinking now: Why does, what amounts to, an absolute crap-shoot that no sane betting person would gamble on mean so much? Are you just that against Draper picking his kid? Did Kris or Kienan kick your dog?

Fascinating in that you are both disingenuous and naïve in the same post. And probably don't recognize either.

Or maybe, just maybe, they aren't looking for a f***ing conspiracy in everything? There's "naïve," and then there's the opposite end of the spectrum, on which several people here seem to be.

 

[MBH]

So why pick this hill on which to die?

Why does it have to be an "argument?" It's a 7th round pick. Per Dobber's, the odds of a 3rd round pick being an impact player in the NHL are only 2.5x as much (25%) and at that point, what does it matter? One out of every four (25%) 3rd-round picks become "impact players;" one out of every five (20%) 4th-rounders; one out of every seven (15%, or 6.66, actually) 5th-to-6th rounders; and one out of every ten (10%) 7th-rounders.

I'm honestly curious to know your thinking now: Why does, what amounts to, an absolute crap-shoot that no sane betting person would gamble on mean so much? Are you just that against Draper picking his kid? Did Kris or Kienan kick your dog?
e.

I love you turn rationality into:
"Oh, you must hate Kris Draper."
News flash. I've met Kris Draper multiple times. Probably more than any other NHLer, now that I think of it. And he is by far, the nicest/chillest of them.

But I disagree with the pick based on:
I think there were better players - based on the reading I did before the draft (which included reading about Draper).
His son's scouting reports SUCK and don't do much to inspire confidence.
And I think it's a bad look (nepotism) that should be avoided.

Those are opinions I'll hold until anyone (most like Kienan) gives me reason to believe they're wrong.

You've not said one thing that would give me a moment's pause to reconsider.
Nope. All you did was resort to "Oh, did Draper kick your dog?"


1) I don't like the pick, and I'm willing to tell you why
and
2) It's not a big deal
You have both opinions without being a hypocrite.

But some of you can't process that.

 

[RedMenace]

I love you turn rationality into:
"Oh, you must hate Kris Draper."
News flash. I've met Kris Draper multiple times. Probably more than any other NHLer, now that I think of it. And he is by far, the nicest/chillest of them.

But I disagree with the pick based on:
I think there were better players - based on the reading I did before the draft (which included reading about Draper).
His son's scouting reports SUCK and don't do much to inspire confidence.
And I think it's a bad look (nepotism) that should be avoided.

Those are opinions I'll hold until anyone (most like Kienan) gives me reason to believe they're wrong.

You've not said one thing that would give me a moment's pause to reconsider.
Nope. All you did was resort to "Oh, did Draper kick your dog?"


1) I don't like the pick, and I'm willing to tell you why
and
2) It's not a big deal
You have both opinions without being a hypocrite.

But some of you can't process that.

First of all, the "you must hate (Draper)" was sarcasm... especially the "kicked your dog" part. Lighten up a little, will you?

Second, I wasn't trying to refute your analysis or claims in any way; I simply wanted to know why you held them. Personally, I don't see it as a "bad look," but that's just me. Just like your opinions are just you. There are certain people you and I will give the benefit of the doubt to, and they're not always going to be the same people. Fair enough.

You answered my question, and my curiosity is satisfied. Thank you.

 

[kliq]

I feel like this is the most debated 7th round pick in Red Wings history.

One thing I think we can all agree on, hopefully Draper proves people wrong and ends up being a good player for us. Will it happen? Probably not, but let’s all hope for the best.

 

[Stony Curtis]

It's not the actual pick that got me thinking. I'm more interested in the thought process behind it. As others who are smarter than me have already pointed out, it's only a 7th rd pick, but there have been players picked there that have turned out to be significant contributors. SY has said he gave control of the later picks to KD and the scouting team. Did Draper or any of those scouts consider whether there were better players available, and chose Kienan anyway, or did they honestly believe he was the BPA? What was that conversation like, if there even was one? Was it something like, "Sure, the other guy has a more positive scouting report, but it's only a 7th rounder, so wtf, why not?" Were there dissenters? If you're a young scout, you'd want nothing more than to be given the opportunity at a late round pick that you've studied the shit out of. It's how scouts get promoted. I seriously doubt that's what happened here. This looks 100% like a KD pick.

I don't want to assume I know what's in his head, but I think SY is absolutely ruthless when it comes to the best interests of the team, and in his view you're either doing everything you can to win, or you're not. Paying attention to the little details is one of the reasons he's really good at being a GM. I gotta think that even he might be looking at this as at least a little...maybe not suspect, but something to think about. Unless this was discussed prior to the draft, in which case I aggravated my carpal tunnel for nothing lol.

I know, I know, but this is a site for hockey nerds. I'm just nerding out, lol.

 

[Frk It]

It's not the actual pick that got me thinking. I'm more interested in the thought process behind it. As others who are smarter than me have already pointed out, it's only a 7th rd pick, but there have been players picked there that have turned out to be significant contributors. SY has said he gave control of the later picks to KD and the scouting team. Did Draper or any of those scouts consider whether there were better players available, and chose Kienan anyway, or did they honestly believe he was the BPA? What was that conversation like, if there even was one? Was it something like, "Sure, the other guy has a more positive scouting report, but it's only a 7th rounder, so wtf, why not?" Were there dissenters? If you're a young scout, you'd want nothing more than to be given the opportunity at a late round pick that you've studied the shit out of. It's how scouts get promoted. I seriously doubt that's what happened here. This looks 100% like a KD pick.

I don't want to assume I know what's in his head, but I think SY is absolutely ruthless when it comes to the best interests of the team, and in his view you're either doing everything you can to win, or you're not. Paying attention to the little details is one of the reasons he's really good at being a GM. I gotta think that even he might be looking at this as at least a little...maybe not suspect, but something to think about. Unless this was discussed prior to the draft, in which case I aggravated my carpal tunnel for nothing lol.

I know, I know, but this is a site for hockey nerds. I'm just nerding out, lol.

Yzerman said in the post-draft conference that they had an Ontario based scout and a Western CA scout pushing for Draper.

 

[Stony Curtis]

Thanks. I did not see that. Again, it's only a 7th rounder, but I am curious regarding the mechanics of the pick.

 

[13to40]

And who would have thought that pick #187 would have been our most controversial pick of the 2020 draft....

they could have picked Jack from MVP, who cares it’s the 7th round.

If anything, I thought it was nice that Draper was allowed to draft his own son.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

And who would have thought that pick #187 would have been our most controversial pick of the 2020 draft....

they could have picked Jack from MVP, who cares it’s the 7th round.

If anything, I thought it was nice that Draper was allowed to draft his own son.

It's the most controversial because

1) Raymond was a pretty easy pick at #4 all things considered.
2) Middle rounds were still largely Hakan guys and people still will give him a bunch of latitude
3) Contrarians need something to be contrarian about and nepotism is a drum they can beat right now instead of "You didn't take Mysak!" Some people clearly aren't happy if they don't have something to be unhappy about.

 

[Killerjas]

Thanks. I did not see that. Again, it's only a 7th rounder, but I am curious regarding the mechanics of the pick.

I HATE it that people use this as an excuse. "Just a 7th round pick, who cares". Blah blah blah "only a small percentage makes it to the NHL so no value was lost". I am not particularly mad that he drafted his kid, but more the reasons as to why he looks better than the players that were available.

There were so many highly skilled players available, including Pashin, Schingoethe, Ekmark, Seeley, Magnusson, Cardwell, Mancini, Burns and Berg. You are telling me that a kid that was not even one of the top players on his team in a subtier junior league looks more promising then any of those?

I really like to see the scouting reports and the reason why this guy has so much untapped potential. I just don't see it. Feels like a "feel good story" just like when Anthony Brodeur got selected because of his dad.

Also: are people forgetting that the following players were drafted in the 7th round? You don't just waste picks!

• Zetterberg
• Lundqvist
• Vrbata
• Pavelski
• Hornqvist
• Stralman
• Demers
• Haula
• Andersen
• Dzingel
• Palat
• Kubalik
• Johnsson
• Olofsson
• Kase

 

[MBH]

It's the most controversial because

1) Raymond was a pretty easy pick at #4 all things considered.
2) Middle rounds were still largely Hakan guys and people still will give him a bunch of latitude
3) Contrarians need something to be contrarian about and nepotism is a drum they can beat right now instead of "You didn't take Mysak!" Some people clearly aren't happy if they don't have something to be unhappy about.

It's bullshit to chalk this up to contrarians. But that's what you do.
Anyone who doesn't go with the team view is a contrarian.
It's been like this on HF and other boards for years. it went away for a couple years under Holland, when you guys finally had to remove your head from the sand.
But it's back in full force under Yzerman.

We were all argued out about the 4th overall pick.
There was nothing left to be said.

Virtually nobody on this board likes what Draper offers as a player.
The only real arguments are
1) It's round 7, who cares.
2) You're a contrarian.
Neither are good arguments.

Hopefully Draper improves his skating a lot.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

I don't get all the conflict over this. A few scouts pushed for Draper so he was drafted.
Did his dad maybe reach on him? For sure, he's his dad.
Is this going to set the rebuild back?
Not even 1 day.

Nothing to see here, let us move on.

 

[BinCookin]

BTW ANYONE who you guys were thinking of drafting with this pick... They will never make the NHL either.

This is best revisited in 5 years.

Bottom line is 2 scouts according to Yzerman and Draper wanted this kid. So he got drafted.

Also a few years ago I did watch a piece from another team saying kids of professional players usually know how much work it is to make the NHL and stay there. They seem to have a little more work ethic than other players. This is also probably a factor in this pick and the Aucoin pick.
Probably in the Turgeon pick as well.

 

[newfy]

I HATE it that people use this as an excuse. "Just a 7th round pick, who cares". Blah blah blah "only a small percentage makes it to the NHL so no value was lost". I am not particularly mad that he drafted his kid, but more the reasons as to why he looks better than the players that were available.

There were so many highly skilled players available, including Pashin, Schingoethe, Ekmark, Seeley, Magnusson, Cardwell, Mancini, Burns and Berg. You are telling me that a kid that was not even one of the top players on his team in a subtier junior league looks more promising then any of those?

I really like to see the scouting reports and the reason why this guy has so much untapped potential. I just don't see it. Feels like a "feel good story" just like when Anthony Brodeur got selected because of his dad.

Also: are people forgetting that the following players were drafted in the 7th round? You don't just waste picks!

• Zetterberg
• Lundqvist
• Vrbata
• Pavelski
• Hornqvist
• Stralman
• Demers
• Haula
• Andersen
• Dzingel
• Palat
• Kubalik
• Johnsson
• Olofsson
• Kase

Do you think a random 7th rounder has a better chance of developing into a player, or a 7th rounder who has an NHLAGM father who played years in the league specifically trying to help him develop? Having a guy that is going tobe watched that closely by a guy who knows the in and outs of the NHL is already getting a headstart.

The players you listed arent "so highly skilled" because if they were that skilled, they woulda been drafted before the 7th round. Draper was on scouts radars, he was borderline to get drafted or not but in the last round the team with a major advantage in developing him took him.

Who cares lol some of you guys are pathetic

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Ok and if Kiernan Draper is a fourth liner for someone in the NHL will everyone bellyaching over this pick still complain about how he was only taken for Draper blood? How about you give this kid the same chance to make the NHL as anyone else first.

 

[Gniwder]

Do you think a random 7th rounder has a better chance of developing into a player, or a 7th rounder who has an NHLAGM father who played years in the league specifically trying to help him develop? Having a guy that is going tobe watched that closely by a guy who knows the in and outs of the NHL is already getting a headstart.

The players you listed arent "so highly skilled" because if they were that skilled, they woulda been drafted before the 7th round. Draper was on scouts radars, he was borderline to get drafted or not but in the last round the team with a major advantage in developing him took him.

Who cares lol some of you guys are pathetic

I'd go with random player. Kienan has benefited from having an NHL player as a dad his entire life, and he's not even close to being the best player on his team. I don't see his talent taking a huge leap.

Draper wasn't on anyone radar except the 2 Wings' scouts that wanted to kiss Draper's ass. He was unranked, and there's no highlight videos anywhere.

It's a discussion, you don't have to take part if you don't care.

I think the last 3 picks sucked, and I think they should have taken Blomqvist in the second round. I liked last year's draft a lot better, taking pot shots on undersized scorers or huge d-men and goalies makes more sense than drafting on name recognition.

Even the Freep couldn't find any highlights on the last 3 picks:
Detroit Red Wings 2020 NHL draft picks: Highlights for their selections

 

[Frk It]

I'd go with random player. Kienan has benefited from having an NHL player as a dad his entire life, and he's not even close to being the best player on his team. I don't see his talent taking a huge leap.

Draper wasn't on anyone radar except the 2 Wings' scouts that wanted to kiss Draper's ass. He was unranked, and there's no highlight videos anywhere.

It's a discussion, you don't have to take part if you don't care.

I think the last 3 picks sucked, and I think they should have taken Blomqvist in the second round. I liked last year's draft a lot better, taking pot shots on undersized scorers or huge d-men and goalies makes more sense than drafting on name recognition.

Even the Freep couldn't find any highlights on the last 3 picks:
Detroit Red Wings 2020 NHL draft picks: Highlights for their selections

Having no highlight clips and not being ranked is not uncommon for a 7th rounder.

We used to draft kids from Sweden/Europe every year in the later rounds no one knew anything about.

 

[Gniwder]

Having no highlight clips and not being ranked is not uncommon for a 7th rounder.

We used to draft kids from Sweden/Europe every year in the later rounds no one knew anything about.

His teammate had twice the number of point, was ranked, has highlight videos, and NHL size. Point is, there were way more intriguing players to pick.

Also, every player Detroit drafted last season had highlight videos.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

His teammate had twice the number of point, was ranked, has highlight videos, and NHL size. Point is, there were way more intriguing players to pick.

Also, every player Detroit drafted last season had highlight videos.

That seems like a ludicrous guideline. “This guy had a highlight video made available to the public so he’s a more worthy pick than someone who didn’t”.

Once you are in the later rounds, you assume that every single one of the players has some kind of flaw. If they were flawless, they’d be going much higher.

That includes all of those success stories.

Frankly in the seventh round? Give me a player who has something exceptional about him. Be it talent (Zetterberg), size (Ericsson), or heart. I don’t really care what. If a couple scouts who aren’t Kris Draper look at Kienan and see a determined ass hockey player like his dad... I’m fine with that pick. Like you know in his youth he had a red ass hockey dad who wouldn’t let him slack. That’s basically Kris Draper’s claim to fame. When he played, he kicked the shit out of his teammates in the locker room. If his son had NHL aspirations, I’m assuming the same. If I get a guy with Kris Draper heart and drive in the 7th round, I’m ecstatic.

 

[newfy]

I'd go with random player. Kienan has benefited from having an NHL player as a dad his entire life, and he's not even close to being the best player on his team. I don't see his talent taking a huge leap.

Draper wasn't on anyone radar except the 2 Wings' scouts that wanted to kiss Draper's ass. He was unranked, and there's no highlight videos anywhere.

It's a discussion, you don't have to take part if you don't care.

I think the last 3 picks sucked, and I think they should have taken Blomqvist in the second round. I liked last year's draft a lot better, taking pot shots on undersized scorers or huge d-men and goalies makes more sense than drafting on name recognition.

Even the Freep couldn't find any highlights on the last 3 picks:
Detroit Red Wings 2020 NHL draft picks: Highlights for their selections

You watch a lot of St Andrews college lol? Maybe Draper projects as being able to play a defensive center role while Hillier can barely skate?

Why people pretend they know FA about anyone drafted in the seventh round is beyond me. You've watched a lot of Chase Bradley I'm sure to know those picks sucked. Cant believe they missed out on Hugo Ollas and Devon Levi!!!! Wow these 7th rounders suck compared to other teams

 

[Hen Kolland]

Virtually nobody on this board likes what Draper offers as a player.

Counter: nobody on this board knows what Draper offers as a player. Because nobody has watched him play.

My stance on this is simple, once Kienan has failed to make the league, and once someone who was available to pick has become a legitimate top 9 contributor, I will say that the pick was a mistake. Until we have that confirmation, then there's nothing more to be said. He doesn't have a worse chance than anyone else, and he shouldn't be monitored like a lab rat because his dad is the AGM. He's the same as any number of 7th rounders, a long shot.

Edit (sorry if this doesn't reflect your like Rzombo): and none of this is to say that his name wasn't a reason for him being picked. NHL teams like NHL bloodlines. Hell, we picked Kyle Aucoin a round earlier, and I'd wager that a major component of that could be attributed to his father playing 1000+ games in the NHL. We know in the world that there's a major component of "who you know, not what you know". I don't think he was picked because he is a Draper, but I'm sure that it didn't hurt his case. The greater point being, you are betting on the bloodline, the knowledge of who the kid is, where he comes from, how he goes about his game.

And lastly, I can only speak for myself, but if I did what some people are accusing Kris of doing, it would be the most artificial and tacky sense of pride. I would almost feel so embarrassed at the thought of it that I wouldn't make the pick. I don't think Draper is drafting his own son to get that feel good moment as a father, or to give his son that moment.

 

[Frk It]

Red Wings executive vice president and general manager Steve Yzerman said that scouts have been closely following Kienan Draper the last few years and stressed that he earned his spot on the Wings' draft board.

"A couple of our scouts-one in Ontario who followed Kienan at St. Andrew's College last year, and one of our scouts who was following him in Chilliwack-they were pushing pretty hard," Yzerman said. "Kris and I had a brief conversation about it recently and initially I said, 'are you sure you want to put your son in that position?' and then ultimately, my answer to him was, 'your obligation is to do whatever is right for the Detroit Red Wings and I trust your judgement,' and I know that he did that."

Kris Draper said he wouldn't have selected his son if he didn't deserve it.

"Obviously I'm super proud, very excited, but my job is to draft prospects that I feel are going to be part of the Detroit Red Wings going forward," he said. "I believe in Kienan and just as importantly, guys on our staff believed in him as well, and that's how we ended up making that selection. He's continued to get better. He earned his position on our draft list by continuing to get better."

Like Father, Like Son: Kienan Draper drafted by the Red Wings

 

[Pavels Dog]

His teammate had twice the number of point, was ranked, has highlight videos, and NHL size. Point is, there were way more intriguing players to pick.

Also, every player Detroit drafted last season had highlight videos.

There could be countless reasons that guy wasn’t drafted. I think it will be evident within 1-2 years if Kienan was a terrible pick. But I really doubt he was drafted solely on the Draper name, we’re not talking Gretzky or Yzerman bloodlines here.

 

[MBH]

And lastly, I can only speak for myself, but if I did what some people are accusing Kris of doing, it would be the most artificial and tacky sense of pride. I would almost feel so embarrassed at the thought of it that I wouldn't make the pick. I don't think Draper is drafting his own son to get that feel good moment as a father, or to give his son that moment.

Just because you couldn't do it doesn't mean others wouldn't. Every school district in America is a hotbed of nepotism.
Joe Biden/Hunter Biden.
Trump and the Trumps.

People lose sight of the moral compass at times when it comes to assisting their children.