2020 Draft - Pick #187 - Kienan Draper

[MBH]

I'd say you are pretending to be the smart guy to think you know enough about a 17 year old playing for St Andrews College to confidently say it's a terrible pick and have an extreme reaction about it.

Extreme reaction?
Get real.
It's a sports board.
We're reacting to draft picks the way sports fans do on message boards.


What 17-year-old are you even talking about?


Once again, you're here lecturing people about whether or not they're permitted to have opinions.

Kienan Draper is going back to the BCHL instead of going to college.
Is it safe to say that pick isn't working out yet?
Or do we have to watch his games?

You'll attack anyone criticizing the Mazur pick until the day you no longer can. I'm sure of that.

 

[Killerjas]

Josh Doan is a really good hockey player, my dude. I was hoping we would have picked him at 36 or 38 instead of Buium. The guy is a very similar player to Nick Foligno and I think he's the kind of guy that will play in the NHL for a very long time.

Doan played for the best USHL team this year, probably one of the best teams there ever was in the USHL. He is an overager with only 1 good season and riding a bit on the success of Farrell, Middendorf and Coronato, 3 amazing players. A 3rd round pick going early 2nd. I dunno, I like him but he was a reach.

If he wasn't the "son of", I dont think he would have been picked so soon.

 

[MBH]

Doan played for the best USHL team this year, probably one of the best teams there ever was in the USHL He is an overager with only 1 good season and riding a bit on the success of Farrell, Middendorf and Coronato, 3 amazing players. A 3rd round pick going early 2nd. I dunno, I like him but he was a reach.

Arizona looking for some PR

 

[Frk It]

Extreme reaction?
Get real.
It's a sports board.
We're reacting to draft picks the way sports fans do on message boards.


What 17-year-old are you even talking about?


Once again, you're here lecturing people about whether or not they're permitted to have opinions.

Kienan Draper is going back to the BCHL instead of going to college.
Is it safe to say that pick isn't working out yet?
Or do we have to watch his games?

You'll attack anyone criticizing the Mazur pick until the day you no longer can. I'm sure of that.

People are allowed to have opinion on players they haven't seen play.

But dude, this Draper thread got more action than some of our 1st round picks. So I am not just saying you, but collectively uh yeah... I'd say it was an extreme reaction. For sure. 100%.

Because even if you end up being right in that case, what was it based on... looking at their EP profile for 5 sec? I mean, congrats...

And why do you feel that way with that last sentence? I am not saying Mazur can't end up being a bad pick. Sure it could be. I thought he looked at least decently encouraging at the WJSS for USA to where we shouldn't assume he's going to be just like Kienan Draper. Or that he was only picked for super irresponsible reasons. I would not be surprised if he had a pretty good NCAA season next year, Denver doesn't have that many good forwards. Do you not see a scenario where it could be a good pick?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Side note: How many bloodlines picks have we made since 2013?

Bertuzzi
Mantha (kinda)
Gallant
Aucoin
Draper
Johansson (kinda)
Savage
Turgeon

Am I missing anyone?

 

[Pavels Dog]

Side note: How many bloodlines picks have we made since 2013?

Bertuzzi
Mantha (kinda)
Gallant
Aucoin
Draper
Johansson (kinda)
Savage
Turgeon

Am I missing anyone?

Gustav Lindström's uncle is Marcus Ragnarsson (600+ NHL games).

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Doan played for the best USHL team this year, probably one of the best teams there ever was in the USHL. He is an overager with only 1 good season and riding a bit on the success of Farrell, Middendorf and Coronato, 3 amazing players. A 3rd round pick going early 2nd. I dunno, I like him but he was a reach.

If he wasn't the "son of", I dont think he would have been picked so soon.

A lot of scouts were talking about him as a potential late 1st or early 2nd. Button was stating that Doan should have been picked last season in the later rounds.

The big differences between Doan last year and this year is physical maturity and playing time. He was apparently very physically immature (very skinny) last year and Chicago was super deep so he was buried on the 4th line. This season he was able to get top 6 time and really made it work. He wasn't being carried by Coronato and Samoskevich.

 

[newfy]

You don't have to watch Mazur play to know he's almost surely picked too high. Same with Draper.

This might be the dumbest thing youve ever said on this board, which is a high bar.

You have these ridiculously extreme opinions about guys, saying they shouldnt have even been drafted and youadmit you havent even watched them actually play. You think they shouldnt have been drafted despite the fact that Yzerman thought they were worth a 3rd round pick. You realise how stupid that is right? Like you read a hockeydb page and think youre smarter than a front office headed up by a GM who has a great track record of drafting to fall back on.

On top of that, in the little amount of hockey Mazur has played since being drafted, hes played well and has most people projecting him to make team USA as of right now for the world juniors. You dont do that if you shouldnt have been drafted. USA hockey had him on their radar fairly highly after this draft year.

You said the same thing about Sebrango, who then went to the AHL and played a top 4 role solidly one year removed from his draft. He actually played with Canada internationally leading up to the draft, and was projected to go right where he was drafted. But you looked at his hockeydb page and decided you were smarter than Yzerman and the rest of the wings front office again, saying he shouldnt have been drafted.

I know you dont really care but its just hilarious to see how many bad takes you can rack up in such a short amount of time.

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

 

[MBH]

People are allowed to have opinion on players they haven't seen play.

But dude, this Draper thread got more action than some of our 1st round picks. So I am not just saying you, but collectively uh yeah... I'd say it was an extreme reaction. For sure. 100%.

Horseshit.

The Draper pick got the reaction anyone with a brain would expect.
People didn't like the pick.
People couldn't see the value.
People read the scouting reports and were still like, WTF.

And the only reason this thread went so many pages is because some of you guys ARGUED just as vehemently that 1) it's only a seventh rounder, so stop complaining or 2) He could be a fine pick.

You guys are responsible for 50 percent or more of the posts - and then claim "other people" have the extreme reactions.

Because even if you end up being right in that case, what was it based on... looking at their EP profile for 5 sec? I mean, congrats...

That's all you need with Kienan Draper.
He was a throwaway pick. A nice gift for Draper's son.
You could read the scouting reports if you want. The ones that say he lacks skill. That he doesn't skate like his old man.
But by all means, go watch the tape.

And why do you feel that way about with that last sentence? I am not saying Mazur can't end up being a bad pick. Sure it could be. I thought he looked at least decently encouraging at the WJSS for USA to where we shouldn't assume he's going to be just like Kienan Draper. Or that he was only picked for super irresponsible reasons. I would not be surprised if he had a pretty good NCAA season next year, Denver doesn't have that many good forwards. Do you not see a scenario where it could be a good pick?

It's pretty obvious Mazur is better than Draper.
But Draper shouldn't have been drafted.
Mazur was drafted too high.
Good for Mazur if he goes to Denver and plays well.
He's a smallish winger who lacks skill. That's a tough road to hoe in the NHL. I have no idea why anyone thinks this was a good use of 70th overall.

 

[MBH]

This might be the dumbest thing youve ever said on this board, which is a high bar.

You have these ridiculously extreme opinions about guys, saying they shouldnt have even been drafted and youadmit you havent even watched them actually play. You think they shouldnt have been drafted despite the fact that Yzerman thought they were worth a 3rd round pick. You realise how stupid that is right? Like you read a hockeydb page and think youre smarter than a front office headed up by a GM who has a great track record of drafting to fall back on.

On top of that, in the little amount of hockey Mazur has played since being drafted, hes played well and has most people projecting him to make team USA as of right now for the world juniors. You dont do that if you shouldnt have been drafted. USA hockey had him on their radar fairly highly after this draft year.

You said the same thing about Sebrango, who then went to the AHL and played a top 4 role solidly one year removed from his draft. He actually played with Canada internationally leading up to the draft, and was projected to go right where he was drafted. But you looked at his hockeydb page and decided you were smarter than Yzerman and the rest of the wings front office again, saying he shouldnt have been drafted.

I know you dont really care but its just hilarious to see how many bad takes you can rack up in such a short amount of time.

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

LOL.
You're the guy who supports the Blashill trainwreck.
Who probably supported the Abdelkader contract. The Howard contract. The Ericsson contract. The Helm contract.
Who supported Kenny Holland until the end.

And you think it's hilarious how many bad takes other people rack up?
You literally cheered every f***ing move that made that .250 point percentage season an inevitability.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Gustav Lindström's uncle is Marcus Ragnarsson (600+ NHL games).

I didn't know that about Lindstrom. I always liked Ragnarsson on those really bad late 90's sharks squads. He was quietly a very steady defenseman.

 

[Frk It]

delete

 

[Frk It]

delete... ill sit this one out

 

[newfy]

LOL.
You're the guy who supports the Blashill trainwreck.
Who probably supported the Abdelkader contract. The Howard contract. The Ericsson contract. The Helm contract.
Who supported Kenny Holland until the end.

And you think it's hilarious how many bad takes other people rack up?
You literally cheered every f***ing move that made that .250 point percentage season an inevitability.

Despite the fact that you have a few of my takes wrong there, its hilarious that you dont see the difference in those opinions and yours on prospects. Everyone on this board watched all those guys play and could make an informed take on those positions.

You openly admit you have 0 knowledge and havent even watched these guys play and then you declare they shouldnt have been drafted. Despite the fact they went in earlier rounds and have the attention of their world junior teams. Even you can see the difference there right?

As for saying I supported all these things, you have the wrong guy. Since when do I support the Blashill trainwreck? I really dont care about the coaching situation because with or withou him, the wings are going to be bad. They really need to worry about coaching in a year or two. I dont have an extreme take oneway or the other, because its actually possible to not have an extreme opinion about a subject. crazy concept, I know.

Hated the Helm contract, liked Ericsson as a player before his hip issues but thought the contract would age poorly because it was a year or two too late. But at the end of the day, I actually had information to make opinions on those things unlike you who read a hockeydb page and declared guys as shouldnt have been drafted. Its hilarious to me people can lack that much information and think its smart to make outrageous claims with absolutely no basis

 

[Bench]

Its hilarious to me people can lack that much information and think its smart to make outrageous claims with absolutely no basis

This statement is such a mood for me the last few years.

 

[MBH]

Despite the fact that you have a few of my takes wrong there, its hilarious that you dont see the difference in those opinions and yours on prospects. Everyone on this board watched all those guys play and could make an informed take on those positions.

You openly admit you have 0 knowledge and havent even watched these guys play and then you declare they shouldnt have been drafted. Despite the fact they went in earlier rounds and have the attention of their world junior teams. Even you can see the difference there right?

As for saying I supported all these things, you have the wrong guy. Since when do I support the Blashill trainwreck? I really dont care about the coaching situation because with or withou him, the wings are going to be bad. They really need to worry about coaching in a year or two. I dont have an extreme take oneway or the other, because its actually possible to not have an extreme opinion about a subject. crazy concept, I know.

Hated the Helm contract, liked Ericsson as a player before his hip issues but thought the contract would age poorly because it was a year or two too late. But at the end of the day, I actually had information to make opinions on those things unlike you who read a hockeydb page and declared guys as shouldnt have been drafted. Its hilarious to me people can lack that much information and think its smart to make outrageous claims with absolutely no basis

You don't seem to know the definition of the word "hilarious."

I don't watch video on Kienan Draper.
But I've paid for enough scouting reports written by people who have.
I don't watch video of Carter Mazur, but I've paid for enough scouting reports of people who have.
But by all means. If Newfy watched a game - that makes him an authority, right?
A better authority than the people who are paid to watch games?

I'm paying for scouting reports from people who get paid to provide the information. So since I'm paying money, I place some credibility in their work.
I can put the scouting reports together with the readily available data and make assessments.

Based on the info I have, Kienan Draper was a shitty pick.
Based on the info I have, Carter Mazur was a shitty pick.

Dispute it if you want. But so far, you haven't. You've just only said "You're not qualified to have an opinion."


My default position with draft picks is this: Give me a good reason to like them and I usually will.
I don't have that reason with these guys.

Either guy could prove me wrong. But I doubt they will.

Also - I watched Tri-City footage a little bit this year to see Matthew Knies after HP ranked him real high. Mazur didn't stand out to me at all.

 

[Gniwder]

You openly admit you have 0 knowledge and havent even watched these guys play and then you declare they shouldnt have been drafted.

In all fairness, there aren't even any videos on the web for Kienan aside from his first USHL goal. That pretty much tells you where he ranks as a prospect. Nobody even cares.

 

[newfy]

You don't seem to know the definition of the word "hilarious."

I don't watch video on Kienan Draper.
But I've paid for enough scouting reports written by people who have.
I don't watch video of Carter Mazur, but I've paid for enough scouting reports of people who have.
But by all means. If Newfy watched a game - that makes him an authority, right?
A better authority than the people who are paid to watch games?

I'm paying for scouting reports from people who get paid to provide the information. So since I'm paying money, I place some credibility in their work.
I can put the scouting reports together with the readily available data and make assessments.

Based on the info I have, Kienan Draper was a shitty pick.
Based on the info I have, Carter Mazur was a shitty pick.

Dispute it if you want. But so far, you haven't. You've just only said "You're not qualified to have an opinion."


My default position with draft picks is this: Give me a good reason to like them and I usually will.
I don't have that reason with these guys.



Either guy could prove me wrong. But I doubt they will.

Youre paying for scouting reports from bloggers that cant get an actual NHL job, not watching the player play even a little bit and then saying a guy who has historically drafted as well as Yzerman's early 3rd round picks shouldn't have even been drafted. You have them trying out for the 2 best junior teams in the world right after being drafted and obviously being evaluated fairly long term by usa hockey/hockey Canada,and drafted early third round but you think your bloggers and hockeydb are a better authority? Seriously?

What do you think of Sebrango? Based on the info you have he shouldnt have been drafted either right?

I'm not an authority, but I watch enough to be able to tell you going around with these wild opinions about guys being so bad they shouldnt be drafted is absolutely stupid. You dont need to be an authority for that

In all fairness, there aren't even any videos on the web for Kienan aside from his first USHL goal. That pretty much tells you where he ranks as a prospect. Nobody even cares.

Not really talkinf about Draper, but Mazur and Sebrango are in a different league of NHL prospect that "shouldnt have been drafted" based on some bloggers opinions and someone who thinks theyre a genius from reading hockeydb

 

[Gniwder]

Not really talkinf about Draper, but Mazur and Sebrango are in a different league of NHL prospect that "shouldnt have been drafted" based on some bloggers opinions and someone who thinks theyre a genius from reading hockeydb

Well it's a thread about Draper's kid...

I have faith in Rezmierski, so I didn't mind the Sebrango pick. His rankings were all over the place, and while he might have limited upside offensively, there's always a need for a defensive defenseman.

Mazur? Yeah, I don't know anything about him other than it seemed a bit of a reach.

 

[newfy]

Well it's a thread about Draper's kid...

I have faith in Rezmierski, so I didn't mind the Sebrango pick. His rankings were all over the place, and while he might have limited upside offensively, there's always a need for a defensive defenseman.

Mazur? Yeah, I don't know anything about him other than it seemed a bit of a reach.

Yeah the topic shifted from just Drapers kid. But I'm not going to say theyre stud prospects that are going to light up the NHL, but thats a huge difference from saying they should have never been drafted at all. Its a ridiculous take

 

[RabidBadger]

I only breezed through some of the comments on this page: why are there 12 pages about our 187th pick from a year ago? I'd rather waste time arguing if the dress was blue or gold or if the voice recording said "Laurel" or "Yanni".

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I only breezed through some of the comments on this page: why are there 12 pages about our 187th pick from a year ago? I'd rather waste time arguing if the dress was blue or gold or if the voice recording said "Laurel" or "Yanni".

Because the thread is less about how good Kienan Draper is, and more about the philosophical question "WHY" Kienen draper is.

(Also this is quickly becoming our new Hossa vs. Franzen)

 

[RabidBadger]

Because the thread is less about how good Kienan Draper is, and more about the philosophical question "WHY" Kienen draper is.

(Also this is quickly becoming our new Hossa vs. Franzen)

Then that's amazing what lengths people will go to make a point about a move that amounts to jack squat (to quote Matt Foley). I'll politely finish my drink and see myself out.

Color me intrigued though; I'm assuming Draper is the Franzen part of the argument, who is the Hossa?

 

[Hen Kolland]

I saw Tag Bertuzzi out there. Would have loved Tag Bertuzzi in that spot for a nepotism draft pick.

A now 3 year overaged forward with average to slightly above average size, poor skating, a mediocre track record of statistical performance in the OHL as a double overager and who most recently played in a Slovakian league? Man I really wish I had THAT type of nepotism in the organization. That’s the good stuff right there.

Are you sure you want to hitch your wagon to Tag f***ing Bertuzzi as the guy who was “worth a 7th round pick”?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Then that's amazing what lengths people will go to make a point about a move that amounts to jack squat (to quote Matt Foley). I'll politely finish my drink and see myself out.

Color me intrigued though; I'm assuming Draper is the Franzen part of the argument, who is the Hossa?

Now THAT is a good question. Ask again in 5 years.