2020 Draft - Pick #187 - Kienan Draper

[kliq]

It's a sports board.

People say have reasonable takes like:
"It's only a 7th round pick, but I think there were better players and I don't like the looks of nepotism - especially with a guy who doesn't seem to have much upside."

And other people have unreasonable takes.
"Draper was a good guy who helped us win 7 cups. We should let him and his son enjoy the draft."

Or.
"Did Draper do something to you personally?"

And Kliq and Bench, of course, lampoon the reasonable takes. And then act like they're the unreasonable ones.

The best argument you've got is
"Who cares, it's a 7th rounder."
Which you don't even mean, or you wouldn't open the f***ing thread about a 7th rounder.

90% of this has nothing to do with what I wrote. I was simply agreeing with Bench that the majority of us have no clue how good any of these kids in the 7th round are.

You take this subject way to seriously/personally.

 

[MBH]

90% of this has nothing to do with what I wrote. I was simply agreeing with Bench that the majority of us have no clue how good any of these kids in the 7th round are.

You take this subject way to seriously/personally.

Nah, I don't take it seriously.
I just don't back down. You know that.

Just because a 7th rounder is a fairly minor issue (although, on a site called Hockey's Future, it's probably more "major" than most hockey communities), doesn't mean that everyone should put aside criticisms.

It's a minor issue. But the concerns about Kienan Draper are entirely legit from
a) the nepotism standpoint.
b) the talent standpoint.

It's Hockey's Future. It's OK to debate draft picks.

And on the nepotism front - has the head of an amateur scouting department EVER drafted his son before in the NHL?
What about in other sports?

Seems rare, going by google, but it turns out Boston did it this year with Mason Langenbrunner - a kid who actually did show up on some draft boards on our board.

 

[kliq]

Nah, I don't take it seriously.
I just don't back down. You know that.

Just because a 7th rounder is a fairly minor issue (although, on a site called Hockey's Future, it's probably more "major" than most hockey communities), doesn't mean that everyone should put aside criticisms.

It's a minor issue. But the concerns about Kienan Draper are entirely legit from
a) the nepotism standpoint.
b) the talent standpoint.

It's Hockey's Future. It's OK to debate draft picks.

And on the nepotism front - has the head of an amateur scouting department EVER drafted his son before in the NHL?
What about in other sports?

Seems rare, going by google, but it turns out Boston did it this year with Mason Langenbrunner - a kid who actually did show up on some draft boards on our board.

I’m not saying you can’t debate it, I just don’t see the point in repeating yourself over and over and over and over again. This thread should have been ended after page two as there are no new takes on this subject.

Also, letting something go on a message board is not "backing down". There is no benefit to repeating yourself, its not like any of this debate is leading to decisions being made.

 

[SCD]

Yeah. I totally mischaracterized your post.

What a surprise that people dislike nepotism.

Nepotism runs in the Red Wings organization. Ever since Mike I. gave the business to Chris, it is all down hill. It is only fitting that Drapes draft his son. Stevie wasn't here to draft his daughters when they became draft eligible.

 

[Retire91]

Nah, I don't take it seriously.
I just don't back down. You know that.

Just because a 7th rounder is a fairly minor issue (although, on a site called Hockey's Future, it's probably more "major" than most hockey communities), doesn't mean that everyone should put aside criticisms.

It's a minor issue. But the concerns about Kienan Draper are entirely legit from
a) the nepotism standpoint.
b) the talent standpoint.

It's Hockey's Future. It's OK to debate draft picks.

And on the nepotism front - has the head of an amateur scouting department EVER drafted his son before in the NHL?
What about in other sports?

Seems rare, going by google, but it turns out Boston did it this year with Mason Langenbrunner - a kid who actually did show up on some draft boards on our board.

The closest example I have of pure nepotism in personal memory is the Devils making a trade so that Brodeur could draft his son. Cool PR moment but also eye rolling.
NHL: New Jersey Devils Trade Into 7th Round to Take Martin Brodeur's Son Anthony

An example I can think of where a player's father led to a player staying around way past their shelf life is Landon Ferraro. I don't know the player enough to say if this was a case of dad hype or if he was drafted where he was scouted and it just didn't pan out.

Same goes for drapes I don't know the scouting situation closely enough to comment on skill, but with as many science memes as you guys flame with you must be aware of occam's razor.

 

[Gniwder]

And on the nepotism front - has the head of an amateur scouting department EVER drafted his son before in the NHL?
What about in other sports?

Avila was AGM when the Tigers drafted his son the second time, which turned out to be a decent 5th round pick.

He traded his son as GM, so I guess he's all business.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Nah, I don't take it seriously.
I just don't back down. You know that.

Just because a 7th rounder is a fairly minor issue (although, on a site called Hockey's Future, it's probably more "major" than most hockey communities), doesn't mean that everyone should put aside criticisms.

It's a minor issue. But the concerns about Kienan Draper are entirely legit from
a) the nepotism standpoint.
b) the talent standpoint.

It's Hockey's Future. It's OK to debate draft picks.

And on the nepotism front - has the head of an amateur scouting department EVER drafted his son before in the NHL?
What about in other sports?

Seems rare, going by google, but it turns out Boston did it this year with Mason Langenbrunner - a kid who actually did show up on some draft boards on our board.

MLB is absolutely rife with it. Granted, there are like 50 rounds and I'm pretty sure someone might have been selected off of a sandlot team before.

I don't know that a football exec's son has been in there and if there is one, I'm not familiar. But that's because the pool of NFL talent is that you're still talking literal power 5 players who can't even qualify for a walk-on, UDFA deal.

Basketball, there are two rounds of the draft now... and even the guys in the second round are complete f***in tossups as to whether they're worth the slot.

For hockey, you get out of legit prospects that everyone knows about by about the fourth or fifth round. Clearly, you can get good players there... but that's where you start getting into very flawed players or players hardly anyone has seen from all kinds of international junior leagues.

I just don't see using a 7th round pick 200 or so picks deep in the draft where literally every player has a pretty massive flaw in their game as some fundamentally flawed activity nor do I see the "nepotism" angle as something that has anything to do with how Yzerman and Draper and co are running their office. More likely than not, they didn't have strong opinions on any of the guys that people here stumbled upon one highlight and fell in love with. Like I said, maybe that Pashin guy or Elfstrom who people wanted... maybe they have something in their game that the Wings don't like and Yzerman (not Draper) knows Kienan and how he plays, so he could probably.

Screaming nepotism about a 7th round pick as if it is some grand criminal offense or remotely indicative of some kind of culture problem is the bad argument and bad tack to take here. Did Kienan get drafted because he is a Draper? I mean, depending on how far you want to take the narrative, the Prince Fielder 9 year contract that Ilitch gave him was nepotism. They had Cecil Fielder in the 90s and Prince was around the team forever. Ilitch had a chance to sign him and he did with f***in authority (9 yr, 220M).

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

The closest example I have of pure nepotism in personal memory is the Devils making a trade so that Brodeur could draft his son. Cool PR moment but also eye rolling.
NHL: New Jersey Devils Trade Into 7th Round to Take Martin Brodeur's Son Anthony

An example I can think of where a player's father led to a player staying around way past their shelf life is Landon Ferraro. I don't know the player enough to say if this was a case of dad hype or if he was drafted where he was scouted and it just didn't pan out.

Same goes for drapes I don't know the scouting situation closely enough to comment on skill, but with as many science memes as you guys flame with you must be aware of occam's razor.

I think it was a situation where the player's development just didn't pan out with Ferraro. The hope was he'd become a speedy, tenacious 3rd line winger who might pot 20 goals a season. The problem was that he never got much better defensively, and he topped out his skating pretty early on and he lost the main advantage to his game.

As much as I hated the pick the dude was ranked near the late 1st round. At least we got the Tomas Tatar pick right at 60.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

It's a sports board.

People have reasonable takes like:
"It's only a 7th round pick, but I think there were better players and I don't like the looks of nepotism - especially with a guy who doesn't seem to have much upside."

And other people have unreasonable takes.
"Draper was a good guy who helped us win 7 cups. We should let him and his son enjoy the draft."

Or.
"Did Draper do something to you personally?"

And Kliq and Bench, of course, lampoon the reasonable takes. And then act like the others the unreasonable ones.

The best argument you've got is
"Who cares, it's a 7th rounder."
Which you don't even mean, or you wouldn't open the f***ing thread about a 7th rounder.

And you're perfectly fine to have your opinion that there are better players. Hell, I'm sure that there are better players. David Pastrnak was a way better player than Dylan Larkin but he was taken like ten spots later.

The Wings could easily have not had a strong opinion on or disliked those players who you think were better. And the look of nepotism is just another dogwhistle like "Highest payroll, worst performance" was a couple years ago. Nepotism like that in sports is more common than you think. You don't see it in the NFL or NBA because in the NFL there is a surplus of incredibly talented players at the college level and in the NBA there is two rounds and a crazy dearth of all except top end talent. 53 guys per roster versus like 12. In baseball? My god, you wouldn't be able to go through a draft without someone being drafted as a favor for another person.

Hockey falls between baseball and football on that standard. There are about four rounds of true "we know this guy is a legit prospect and we're excited to add him". After that, it is a complete and total crapshoot. You could strike gold with Datsyuk and Zetterberg or you could completely whiff on guys like Almqvist, Bradley, Gilmour, Axel Holmstrom, etc. It's entirely possible that a team could value "skates hard and is a grinder" as a valuable enough asset to forgo an overly small scorer or a gangly giant with massive skating issues.

 

[MBH]

So many words to avoid the obvious.

 

[jaster]

Clearly there was some level of nepotism involved. How much, we may never know, but to argue there was none is pretty silly. It's too much of a coincidence. The odds are too long. Occam's Razor and all that.

But if no one is allowed to dislike that there was nepotism involved, whether because it was "only" a 7th round pick, or because other sports do it, or whatever, well, ok. But then the one thing that side of the argument should be able to agree about is contracting the draft to fewer rounds. I mean, at some point the picks don't really matter, obviously, so what's the point? Scratch the 7th round, no problem. Probably the 6th too (bye Soderblom). Maybe even the 5th and 4th (hell, would have saved me a lot of headaches in all the AA threads), given how steeply the odds of NHL success drop off during the 3rd round.

Would make draft day a little more boring, but everyone would be wasting a lot less time.

 

[Filppula]

1 point in 15 games, yikes. Hopefully he shows something soon because it’s definitely not looking too good.

 

[jaster]

1 point in 15 games, yikes. Hopefully he shows something soon because it’s definitely not looking too good.

19th in scoring on his team.... among forwards.

 

[Frk It]

Kinda weird how the Malmstrom and Nastasiuk threads are both under 50 posts.

I guess it’s OK to make a shitty player eval as long as there’s none of that nepotism involved.

 

[lhsgolf19]

First USHL Goal... Congrats Baby Drapes!

 

[lhsgolf19]

 

[Gniwder]

Maybe he can coach the Wings how to execute a 2 on 1.

 

[kliq]

Clearly there was some level of nepotism involved. How much, we may never know, but to argue there was none is pretty silly. It's too much of a coincidence. The odds are too long. Occam's Razor and all that.

But if no one is allowed to dislike that there was nepotism involved, whether because it was "only" a 7th round pick, or because other sports do it, or whatever, well, ok. But then the one thing that side of the argument should be able to agree about is contracting the draft to fewer rounds. I mean, at some point the picks don't really matter, obviously, so what's the point? Scratch the 7th round, no problem. Probably the 6th too (bye Soderblom). Maybe even the 5th and 4th (hell, would have saved me a lot of headaches in all the AA threads), given how steeply the odds of NHL success drop off during the 3rd round.

Would make draft day a little more boring, but everyone would be wasting a lot less time.

I’m guessing the PA would have to agree to that, and I can’t see them signing off.

 

[FabricDetails]

Maybe he can coach the Wings how to execute a 2 on 1.

I'm just happy it wasn't an easily telegraphed slapshot...

 

[Air Budd Dwyer]

I'm just happy it wasn't an easily telegraphed slapshot...

I used to love watching Draper fly down the wing and unload the big slapper...right into the goalie’s chest.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

I used to love watching Draper fly down the wing and unload the big slapper...right into the goalie’s chest.

But did you know Maltby scored 50 in juniors!?

 

[Gniwder]

But did you know Maltby scored 50 in juniors!?

Darren Helm scored 41 goals in his D+1 season and Bowey was a 1P/G defenseman. McCarty had 55 goals and 127 points. Scoring in lower leagues doesn't always translate to scoring in the NHL, though the lack of success always will.

2 pts in 19 games now for Kienan. Wasted pick.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Darren Helm scored 41 goals in his D+1 season and Bowey was a 1P/G defenseman. McCarty had 55 goals and 127 points. Scoring in lower leagues doesn't always translate to scoring in the NHL, though the lack of success always will.

2 pts in 19 games now for Kienan. Wasted pick.

It was a tongue in cheek reference to Micky and Ken always bringing his Junior offensive production up. I do agree though it was a pure nepotism pick, but it's a 7th rounder. Far from a big deal.

Though I would have at least looked at Gogolev. Yes, he was old but if we drafted him two years earlier in the 7th round and he put up that production, we'd be ecstatic.

 

[MBH]

Both the BCHL’s website and the Chilliwack Progress’s Eric Welsh report that Draper will delay his time at Miami of Ohio for one more season to return to Chilliwack for his 20-year-old season:
Kienan Draper’s heading back to the BCHL this season – The Malik Report

 

[Killerjas]

Both the BCHL’s website and the Chilliwack Progress’s Eric Welsh report that Draper will delay his time at Miami of Ohio for one more season to return to Chilliwack for his 20-year-old season:
Kienan Draper’s heading back to the BCHL this season – The Malik Report

Thats not looking good at all... He isn't even ready to play in the NCAA