Transfer: 2019 Winter Transfer Rumors and Discussion Part II

[East Coast Bias]

The fee was inflated because Dortmund had something other teams wanted.

It shouldn't be marketing related because there's zero proof that Dortmund benefited in that way from having him, but having said that, someone at Chelsea may think there's a huge marketing benefit. Personally I genuinely don't see it. People in this country who care about football have already chosen their teams and would have an opinion on a club as big as Chelsea already. Moreover he's not so good as to be one of the best players in the league. Sorry if I'm bursting bubbles.

The fee in terms of the quality of the player is absurd and almost everyone knows that.

I don't agree with this at all. The amount of people I know that have gotten into the PL since NBC took over is crazy. It's anecdotal, I know. But the ratings confirm it. NBC gets massively better ratings than Fox. PL viewership for last season was up 14% over the previous for NBC. That's a huge gain. (I think they f***ed up royally with the Gold package this year, but that's another story)

 

[bleedblue1223]

I don't agree with this at all. The amount of people I know that have gotten into the PL since NBC took over is crazy. It's anecdotal, I know. But the ratings confirm it. NBC gets massively better ratings than Fox. PL viewership for last season was up 14% over the previous for NBC. That's a huge gain. (I think they ****ed up royally with the Gold package this year, but that's another story)

Right, the amount of casual fans in the States is huge. When they decide to watch a game or pick a team, they'll probably lean towards the club with an American or a style they like.

 

[Live in the Now]

I think he has enough quality to shine.
And I'm not sure why you feel new fans won't be attracted to Chelsea if they have the best US player. Of course they will. Older fans won't change their allegiance, but how many times, on this hockey board, have we seen US posters ask us who they should support?
They'll play with FIFA with Chelsea and become fans. Later they'll buy shirts and one day come to the stadium.

We have a strange country. It could also just as easily turn out that people hate him because of how much he's talked about. Like with LeBron. Or that people follow the league leader. I do not think that people who follow this sport in this country are the kind of people who blindly follow our country like this.

I will be honest though, I have never seen him as a super talent like some people here. He's a good top four team player like Son or a younger Pedro.

Liverpool got lucky with Salah, but do you honestly believe that 60ish million could buy a player that everyone would believe would they'd be one of the best players in the league? To buy a player that consensus would put as a top 5 or top 10 player, you'd have to spend much more than 60.

Not necessarily. Jorginho was supposed to be one of these players and cost nowhere near that. Same with Bernardo Silva.

The only top players in England who cost that much are van Dijk, Alisson, Pogba, and Mahrez.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Right, the amount of casual fans in the States is huge. When they decide to watch a game or pick a team, they'll probably lean towards the club with an American or a style they like.

Agreed. I don't want to belittle the signing or price. There were tons of factors that you and others have highlighted. Market price, possible transfer ban/timing, etc. But to say marketing is a made up fantasy that has no bearing on this is wrong to me. Just my 2 cents.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Agreed. I don't want to belittle the signing or price. There were tons of factors that you and others have highlighted. Market price, possible transfer ban/timing, etc. But to say marketing is a made up fantasy that has no bearing on this is wrong to me. Just my 2 cents.

I agree. There were definitely plenty of factors in it, and those don't really make for an interesting discussion either. It's just silly to say Pulisic is a this $ amount player, so therefore this $ extra was paid just because he's American.

 

[Gecklund]

Have you heard if they're terminating it to try to get him some playtime elsewhere or if they're planning on keeping him?

He hasn't got a lot of playtime at Fulham, but I also don't recall him playing great in the few bits of play I've seen.

Haven't seen anything other than that his loan is terminated. I would honestly think he is coming back to United because Valencia and Young are trash RBs.

 

[bleedblue1223]

We have a strange country. It could also just as easily turn out that people hate him because of how much he's talked about. Like with LeBron. Or that people follow the league leader. I do not think that people who follow this sport in this country are the kind of people who blindly follow our country like this.

I will be honest though, I have never seen him as a super talent like some people here. He's a good top four team player like Son or a younger Pedro.



Not necessarily. Jorginho was supposed to be one of these players and cost nowhere near that. Same with Bernardo Silva.

The only top players in England who cost that much are van Dijk, Alisson, Pogba, and Mahrez.

I don't think anyone really expected Jorginho to be a top player in the league, and his fee was still 50-57 million pounds. Anyone that knew who he was knew he's a rather limited player, he's just essential to Sarri's system, so it made sense for Chelsea to overpay for him.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Bayern made a 3rd bid of 30 million pounds for Hudson-Odoi.

 

[Live in the Now]

It's Fulham sending Fosu-Mensah back, not the other way around. They want a different loan player and are only allowed to loan two from other PL teams.

He's not good enough to play for Man United yet so he'll probably be loaned out again.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Marketing is real but the impact is not instant unless you have a globally acclaimed superstar like Ronaldo (with Juventus) joining.

I have no doubt that what made Manchester United the financial powerhouse they are right now are largely due to their late 1990's and early 2000's success but more importantly the players they acquired.

It started with Beckham (the model with the celeb wife) followed with Rooney, Howard, Ronaldo and Park Ji-Sung. It gave them a global brand and expanded their exposure from outside england/europe. Most casual fans outside europe knew about the names I listed but have no clue who were Rio Ferdinand, Paul Scholes, Roy Keane, Van Der Sarr, Van Nistlerooy, Neville bros even though they were very important players to their team.

If Pulisic become a Rooney for Chelsea it could definately become a gold mine for them in term of brand recognition across the USA.

Marketing is real but the results still need to be there.

For instance for Liverpool Salah by himself has increased Liverpool global brand incredibly since he joined and had success.

 

[Gecklund]

It's Fulham sending Fosu-Mensah back, not the other way around. They want a different loan player and are only allowed to loan two from other PL teams.

He's not good enough to play for Man United yet so he'll probably be loaned out again.

Felliani, Young, Valencia, Jones, Bailly, Fred, Dalot, Rojo, McTominay, Darmian are all not good enough for United. If some of them can get time so can TFM.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Dortmund are probably going to need to buy another CB.

 

[maclean]

People in this country who care about football have already chosen their teams and would have an opinion on a club as big as Chelsea already.

Big disagree. That's the point of "growing" the sport in the US - you're bringing in new fans who weren't following previously. When they pick a team, an American player playing for one of them will easily influence their decision. I can say that the big league teams that are popular in the Czech Republic are quite clearly the teams that Czechs have played for, and it quite clearly follows what team Czechs were playing for at the specific time people were of the proper age to be influenced by it.

As to another point, comparing the draw of the Premier League, the only league most US fans are even aware of, to the Bundesliga, which domestic popularity and perhaps even quality aside is honestly the fifth most interesting league in Europe, is just silly.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Marketing is real but the impact is not instant unless you have a globally acclaimed superstar like Ronaldo (with Juventus) joining.

I have no doubt that what made Manchester United the financial powerhouse they are right now are largely due to their late 1990's and early 2000's success but more importantly the players they acquired.

It started with Beckham (the model with the celeb wife) followed with Rooney, Howard, Ronaldo and Park Ji-Sung. It gave them a global brand and expanded their exposure from outside england/europe.

If Pulisic become a Rooney for Chelsea it could definately become a gold mine for them in term of brand recognition across the USA.

Marketing is real but the results still need to be there.

For instance for Liverpool Salah by himself has increased Liverpool global brand incredibly since he joined and had success.

This is actually a good point I think. Now obviously you don’t buy players purely for global marketing reasons, but bringing in talented players from a variety of countries brings in fans and increases the marketability.

Is there some global marketing reasons for bringing in Pulisic? Meh sure, but they definitely bought him because they think he’s a young player that can be part of a successful team for them going forward. Any marketing is just extra for them.

 

[YNWA14]

Was always pretty skeptical of Jorginho iirc and glad Liverpool didn't go all in there when they were linked.

Though tbh I thought he was going to be better for Chelsea.

 

[Blender]

Was always pretty skeptical of Jorginho iirc and glad Liverpool didn't go all in there when they were linked.

Though tbh I thought he was going to be better for Chelsea.

He's been good with what is role is, I just don't think the midfield is being deployed properly. Jorginho is not good enough defensively to be the sole DM, especially when we are playing David Luiz and Marcus Alonso every game as part of a back 4. It's especially maddening that we have the best DM in the league playing an attacking role. I would much prefer either Kante and Jorginho swap places, or Kante drops back and plays beside Jorginho to support the team defensively. Our biggest issue is still that we love to pass the ball around the outside a lot but get very few chances inside relative to that though.

 

[Evilo]

That's not what I'm saying. You can definitely find stars and scout them, but the big clubs buy established young players or established stars. The market for those players has been this big for awhile now.

As I said, there are better and more established players available for that price. Probably for less even. Add the one year contract, and this deal is clearly 20M higher than it should be.
Not that it matters to Chelsea.

 

[Bure80]

Marketing cant be neglect. There is a reason Edmonton had a game in Germany last year and maybe there will be a season game soon too. The NHL trys to win the german market, as Chelsea trys to be more noticed in the US market.

 

[Evilo]

But this argument is in tension with the notion that Pulisic's fee was inflated because he's American. Big clubs simply don't take chances on talented players of any nationality at small clubs and wait to pay big money for them after they've made it at the likes of Lyon or Dortmund.

Are you serious?
EPL teams are recruiting young french players by dozen every year. I'm talking about non pro players.

 

[bleedblue1223]

He's been good with what is role is, I just don't think the midfield is being deployed properly. Jorginho is not good enough defensively to be the sole DM, especially when we are playing David Luiz and Marcus Alonso every game as part of a back 4. It's especially maddening that we have the best DM in the league playing an attacking role. I would much prefer either Kante and Jorginho swap places, or Kante drops back and plays beside Jorginho to support the team defensively. Our biggest issue is still that we love to pass the ball around the outside a lot but get very few chances inside relative to that though.

That's Sarri's system though, Kante is the B2B that helps defensively, Jorginho's role isn't a DM, it's the regista role, and Sarri wants it positioned in the middle and deeper, similar to Pirlo.

 

[Evilo]

And clubs should just blindly trust players at every word? Now that's naïve. It's what the Islanders did with Tavares in hockey, but sports executives are over-confident of convincing players to stay with the team.

The risk is with the team holding, not the team acquiring. Dortmund would've been motivated to sell in the summer, but Chelsea wanted to avoid a bidding war, so they paid a bit of a premium, not even that much of one IMO.

Yes, a big premuim.
As you can see teams want to get rid of players close to free at worst 2 years before the expiration. If they wait for the last summer, they know the fee will be cut in half.
That would make Pulisic go for 120M. Do you realize how crazy the fee is?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yes, a big premuim.
As you can see teams want to get rid of players close to free at worst 2 years before the expiration. If they wait for the last summer, they know the fee will be cut in half.
That would make Pulisic go for 120M. Do you realize how crazy the fee is?

No you are just pulling numbers out of thin air.

 

[Blender]

That's Sarri's system though, Kante is the B2B that helps defensively, Jorginho's role isn't a DM, it's the regista role, and Sarri wants it positioned in the middle and deeper, similar to Pirlo.

I know, but we have been very vulnerable to counter attacks all year. Jorginho is fairly useless when defending, and Luiz and Alonso (who also gets forward a ton) aren't known either for their amazing defensive abilities, so it leaves us pretty short at the back when some team hits us on the counter with everyone forward. I also wouldn't really say Kante is playing as a B2B, as he isn't expected to come back into the defensive box much.

 

[Evilo]

No you are just pulling numbers out of thin air.

Of course, but it's generally accepted in football circus that a player with a year left is worth half his fee. That's what people envision usually.
Here Pulisic was a year and a half. But even 100M. That'd be awful.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I know, but we have been very vulnerable to counter attacks all year. Jorginho is fairly useless when defending, and Luiz and Alonso (who also gets forward a ton) aren't known either for their amazing defensive abilities, so it leaves us pretty short at the back when some team hits us on the counter with everyone forward. I also wouldn't really say Kante is playing as a B2B, as he isn't expected to come back into the defensive box much.

That's why Sarri needs a pass this season because a lot of the team isn't ideal for his style. If you get a proper front 3, then that will improve a lot of the issues. We won't be as tight and structured as we were with Conte, but for Sarri to succeed, we need to be able to score a lot more.