OT: 2019 Football Thread: Part IV – More like the "Football Thread", amirite?

[East Coast Bias]

So I'm barely a casual football fan, but what's the expectation of NFL draft classes compared to the NHL? I'm assuming given the age of the players being taken that teams expect to get more than 1 or 2 viable players out of a draft?

This is a few years old, but you'll get the general idea from it. You're expecting starters in round 1-2. At least getting roster players 2/3.

Rounds 4-7 is a crapshoot.

Tracking NFL Draft Efficiency: How Contingent Is Success To Draft Position?

 

[Trxjw]

I find that the top players in the NFL draft are a little bit less of a sure thing than the top players in the NHL, but the depth is leaps and bounds better in the NFL draft.

Interesting. Thanks!

 

[Trxjw]

This is a few years old, but you'll get the general idea from it. You're expecting starters in round 1-2. At least getting roster players 2/3.

Rounds 4-7 is a crapshoot.

Tracking NFL Draft Efficiency: How Contingent Is Success To Draft Position?

Gotcha. I'll check it out. With some of the commentary I had been seeing around the internet it came off like teams expected to get like 3 or 4 starters regularly, but I guess that's the same sort of speculation / media narrative that we get in hockey. I.e., the next week is just talking about how every team got a steal or two in the late rounds.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Gotcha. I'll check it out. With some of the commentary I had been seeing around the internet it came off like teams expected to get like 3 or 4 starters regularly, but I guess that's the same sort of speculation / media narrative that we get in hockey. I.e., the next week is just talking about how every team got a steal or two in the late rounds.

Keep in mind that while there are practice squads, there is no minor league. So you have to either rely on the draft more to have an immediate impact.

And these players are all 3 years out of HS minimum (so 20/21 min) not 18. The expectation is that you're starting already further down the development path than in hockey (in most cases).

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Gotcha. I'll check it out. With some of the commentary I had been seeing around the internet it came off like teams expected to get like 3 or 4 starters regularly, but I guess that's the same sort of speculation / media narrative that we get in hockey. I.e., the next week is just talking about how every team got a steal or two in the late rounds.

Part of the reason I like the NFL draft a lot more than the NHL draft is because it's not a pipe dream to have players past the first round make significant impacts. Two of the Giants' best players last year were 5th round picks.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Also, the draft analysts don't ruin the draft like Bob McKenzie who ruins every pick to prove how smart and connected he is. He's a f***ing asshole who pretty much ruined the NHL draft for me.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

The biggest factor for the Jets improving in 2020 is CJ Mosley being healthy. Injuries in general (and kissing diseases) murdered them last season but in the 3 quarters Mosley played vs Buffalo he was all world, MVP defensive player of the year. If he comes back at that level, with him and Adams the defense is actually really good. As for the offense , a lot of things have to go right, like Mims, Becton, Perriman and the other offensive linemen we signed providing an immediate impact and upgrade.

 

[Trxjw]

Also, the draft analysts don't ruin the draft like Bob McKenzie who ruins every pick to prove how smart and connected he is. He's a f***ing asshole who pretty much ruined the NHL draft for me.

Blasphemous. Hating the Bobfather is like hating Mr Rogers.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Blasphemous. Hating the Bobfather is like hating Mr Rogers.

I hate him because he's inconsiderate and selfish. A lot of fans like to see the picks announced in real-time but to flex his journalist's muscles he spoils each pick. He's a grade-A asshole.

 

[Trxjw]

I hate him because he's inconsiderate and selfish. A lot of fans like to see the picks announced in real-time but to flex his journalist's muscles he spoils each pick. He's a grade-A asshole.

Mute it, dude.

But in all seriousness to each their own. I can appreciate that.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Mute it, dude.

But in all seriousness to each their own. I can appreciate that.

But I want to watch draft coverage. I don't want him ruining picks. Why can't they do what the NFL does and not give info to the analysts before the pick?

 

[Joey Bones]

No offense but I always took people who root for both teams as casual fans.

Nah, I'm a Jets fan. I don't follow the Giants transactions/roster, just like to see them win. But I tend to agree on what you said, lolol.

 

[Joey Bones]

Not sure I'd classify them as casual fans but I don't see how you can root for both the Jets and Giants. Same with Mets and Yankees...how do you root for them both? Your one or the other is the way I grew up.

For Jet fans, we've always been in the shadow of the Giants whether it be playing in their stadium or success wise. I know for me I don't exactly hate the Giants but I certainly don't root for them to do well as I'd love for the Jets to one day rule the city and have the Giants look up too us.

I dunno, maybe I'm old school and newer fans can have allegiances to both NY football teams. I personally couldn't fathom it.

Like I said above, I'm a Jets fan. I don't follow the Giants transactions/roster, just like to see them win. If they play each other, though, I'm Jets all the way!!

 

[Kovalev27]

Golden never impressed me frankly.

I love what we did in this draft. Taking Thomas was the right guy. Only guy that made passing on Simmons worth it imo. And getting like Simmons light at 36 in McKinney was maybe the steak of the draft for me.

Pearts looks Talented just needs to bulk up Easy to do. Lemieux looks like a pain in the ass that don’t be surprised if he’s at center full time. Just looks like a center doesn’t he?

Connolly is my guy. He was showing HUGE upside before he got hurt. If he’s healthy that’s a major piece imo.

We’re going to be better for sure. But next year you gotta get an edge early. Just have to

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The thing about Thomas is last year he was considered easily a blue-chip tackle and #1 in the draft, his value seems to have dropped because of 3 shiny new toys and a combine that was worse than expected, not his play.

 

[Joey Bones]

So I'm barely a casual football fan, but what's the expectation of NFL draft classes compared to the NHL? I'm assuming given the age of the players being taken that teams expect to get more than 1 or 2 viable players out of a draft?

Usually yes, players going into the draft at the earliest age is 21 which would be their senior years as a true collegiate. Some players are drafted when they're 22/23 years old. But the expectation is that they want players coming in right away or within a year or two.

The NFL is definitely a different draft to that of the NHL, though. Most NFL teams pick for need and position, whereas the NHL is more BPA and smaller team needs. Also, the NHL has their maximum age at 21 for Euros only. Most are 18 when they get drafted and have overage years and enter the league way younger. There is also a shorter life span to an NFL players' career in the masses.

 

[Joey Bones]

But I want to watch draft coverage. I don't want him ruining picks. Why can't they do what the NFL does and not give info to the analysts before the pick?

I mean the NHL doesn't show tragic life stories on the draft players profiles. I don't know why ESPN does that....

 

[Gordon Bombay]

I mean the NHL doesn't show tragic life stories on the draft players profiles. I don't know why ESPN does that....

ESPN seems to love those sob stories. On Sundays, their pregame show has at least 1 segment dedicated to a sob story. Sure they're nice but people don't want to see it all the time.

And right now is definitely not the right time to be shoving that in everyone's faces.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I mean the NHL doesn't show tragic life stories on the draft players profiles. I don't know why ESPN does that....

I read a book about Disney CEO Bob Iger. He used to work at ABC Sports, I believe in the 70s. He worked for a legend in the field. I can't remember the guy's name but that was one of is innovations, human interest stories. ABC owns ESPN. This is nothing new.

 

[Joey Bones]

I read a book about Disney CEO Bob Iger. He used to work at ABC Sports, I believe in the 70s. He worked for a legend in the field. I can't remember the guy's name but that was one of is innovations, human interest stories. ABC owns ESPN. This is nothing new.

No it's nothing new, but maybe show some positivity once in a while hahaha. Just seemed too much of it in the draft's entirety.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

ESPN seems to love those sob stories. On Sundays, their pregame show has at least 1 segment dedicated to a sob story. Sure they're nice but people don't want to see it all the time.

And right now is definitely not the right time to be shoving that in everyone's faces.

I was ok with the sob stories, I was ok with the doctors making picks. One thing pissed me off was the interview with the former NFL player/doctor. Instead of having an interview that's about facts and maybe some negativity but some hope, they were asking him questions like "why is this virus so dangerous?". Wouldn't a better question had been "give us some reasons for hope"? Weren't they talking about hope to begin the telecast? Sure things are bad right now but there's some positivity out there. We're inundated with negativity all the time. Why not ask for something more on the positive side of things during a sports telecast?

 

[Maximus]

The biggest factor for the Jets improving in 2020 is CJ Mosley being healthy. Injuries in general (and kissing diseases) murdered them last season but in the 3 quarters Mosley played vs Buffalo he was all world, MVP defensive player of the year. If he comes back at that level, with him and Adams the defense is actually really good. As for the offense , a lot of things have to go right, like Mims, Becton, Perriman and the other offensive linemen we signed providing an immediate impact and upgrade.

I can buy what your selling here as totally agree. A healthy Mosley and Darnold for a full year is big for the teams success. Here's way I'm thinking. I think this team will have more talent and be a better team than last year...no question in my mind.

But the improvement in the teams talent might not correlate into wins because this year's schedule is alot more difficult than last year's "cake" schedule. So if this team ends up winning 7-8 games if it's a full season of course, I'd be thrilled with that to be honest. IMO, I think we are looking at 2021 before we can seriously start to entertain playoff thoughts.

So long as the team play an exciting brand of football and is competitive vs the Chiefs, Seahawks, 49ers of the world even if we lose, I'll be satisfied. We have some very nice pieces in place, I just want to believe again that there are better days ahead and with Joe Douglass in charge, I actually do have hope that better days are ahead sooner rather than later.

 

[Maximus]

Like I said above, I'm a Jets fan. I don't follow the Giants transactions/roster, just like to see them win. If they play each other, though, I'm Jets all the way!!

I hear ya Joey Bones. I think it's much more distinct in baseball and in hockey here in the NY area. It could be a generational thing tho seeing my Dad was a huge Brooklyn Dodger fan who hated the Yankees with a passion for the obvious reasons which were the Yankees ususally curb stomped the Dodgers everytime but once in the WS.

So when he became a Mets fan when Dodgers skipped town, he turned me onto the Mets and to have as much hatred for the Yankees as he did. Same with the Jets and Rangers. He hated the Giants because they always got all the publicity except for once when the Jets had this guy named Namath.

I was too young to remember the Jets SB win but after that I became a big fan and the Jets usually stunk. Meanwhile the Giants win 4 SB's since I became a football fan and with alot of my friends Giants fans, I'm always getting verbally abused over the years, you kind of get sick and tired of the abuse. And it's not like the Jets haven't deserved alot of this abused tho there have been some pretty fun moments of success.

Anyways, maybe that better explains why this Jet fan tho I don't hate them like I do the Islanders or Patriots, I can't ever root for the Giants to do well and win. But I can respect where your coming from tho despite the fact I couldn't possibly do what you do.

 

[nyr2k2]

Article on The Athletic where they assign every team a draft capital value and then calculate a value score, based on a consensus big board, eventually arriving at a ROI (listed as a percentage). They had the Jets at eighth.

They also had the Jets with the fourth and fifth biggest steals (relative to consensus position) in Hall and Mims, respectively.

Fortunately, none of their picks qualified as one of the biggest reaches.

Using the Consensus Big Board to rank the 2020 NFL Draft...

 

[Bob Richards]

There is some cool stuff in this article.

The inside story of how the Giants landed Andrew Thomas, the most coveted tackle in the NFL Draft

The Giants spent much of last week frantically trying to trade down, according to multiple executives and a current general manager, but a market for the No. 4 pick never developed. If the Giants believed Thomas would still be there after moving down, it might have been a mistake: The Cleveland Browns, Indianapolis Colts, Miami Dolphins, Los Angeles Chargers, Arizona Cardinals and Carolina Panthers had Thomas as the top tackle on their draft boards, according to several NFL scouts and executives.