Prospect Info: 2018 NHL Draft / Pick #9 - Vitali Kravtsov (RW) - Part VII

[Alluckks]

Seems more like to me a franchise talking to a player and explaining a situation and assuming that they will understand the ins and outs of the business. Something that may come across better to a more veteran player or even an older adult doesn't translate the same to a younger guy. He hears that he is a major piece for the future of the franchise and he is wondering where the red carpet is being rolled out. Then they say to work on things and in his mind he did go back and do that and did indeed improve, so where is the opportunity? It seems simpler from Kravstov's point of view and he doesn't exactly have a mentor here to rely on or talk casually about this stuff to get a better grip and understanding.

Ultimately, I see this as a complete non-issue and still going very much in the right direction. He was asked a question about what he was confused about and he answered earnestly. I'd rather that than give a dishonest answer.

It's an opportunity for Kravstov to get a bit more of some real world understanding, and also hopefully for the Rangers to learn a bit on how to handle a similar future situation better as well.

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

His physical fitness looks pathetic. Kid appears to have no muscle on him. If he wants to make the NHL, he better star developing a work ethic and learn what the weight room looks like. As of now, despite good trades for young players and some good picks later in the first round, Shesterkin in the 4th, Andersson and Kravtsov could set this team back a ton from where they could have been if they don't pan out. Hoping JD puts his stamp on the draft. I like Clark but he falls in love with players based off a game or two when they wow him and not enough over the body of their work.

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

Clark and his staff seem to be really good drafting late first back where they don't over think things too much. When Clark has a pretty high pick, he seems to get tunnel vision at times.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Clark and his staff seem to be really good drafting late first back where they don't over think things too much. When Clark has a pretty high pick, he seems to get tunnel vision at times.

You think Clark is the only one who decides who we draft? That's not how it works

 

[Inferno]

Going down worked really well for chytil and Lindgren. Both looked much better for it.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Kravtsov missing his sister's wedding to fly to New York and practice with the team is a good indication. Alexey Shevchenko probably did the worst thing possible, waiting a whole week to publish the interview and picking literally the day Kravtsov flies to NA to publish.

 

[NYSPORTS]

His physical fitness looks pathetic. Kid appears to have no muscle on him..

Saw the prospects for a few days last season and all but a few are built like little boys. They have to fill out. Kakko too. Can see a big difference physically between players 2 years of age apart.

Of the few who were more physically mature were Fox and Barron.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Saw the prospects for a few days last season and all but a few are built like little boys. They have to fill out. Kakko too. Can see a big difference physically between players 2 years of age apart.

Of the few who were more physically mature were Fox and Barron.

I see people bring this up every year about 18/19 year old prospects. Teenagers aren't physically built like a freight train? Shocker! /sarcasm

 

[RangersFan1994]

Going down worked really well for chytil and Lindgren. Both looked much better for it.

both have better attitudes. imagine if Chytil decided to go back to Europe.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

both have better attitudes. imagine if Chytil decided to go back to Europe.

You cannot really compare Chytil to the situation Kravtsov and Lias were in when they signed. Chytil came from an inferior league and wasn't signed to a pro contract when he moved to NA. The situation he was in was vastly different.

 

[Harbour Dog]

only thing i'd take issue with is explicitly saying he doesn't want to play with lemieux, for one because much like he took offense to relayed assessments, he's probably speaking on his limited familiarity with lemieux and more reputation (although i'd guess it may also have something to do with lemieux likely having really given it to him a few times verbally / physically or both during camp and it sticking with him).

He called him out by name in the interview?

Lemmy is a savage.

 

[LokiDog]

I see people bring this up every year about 18/19 year old prospects. Teenagers aren't physically built like a freight train? Shocker! /sarcasm

Moreover most hockey players have very uninspiring bodies according to gym rat/modern fitness standards. Find me a hockey player besides Ovie or Jagr who is built like a freight train. Unless you’re able to look at their legs or lungs, you really won’t be impressed. Some of them enjoy the weight room and build their upper bodies, but for every Rod Brindamour, there’s a lot of noodle arms without abs. The workouts are all endurance and explosiveness and their cardio and lower body strength are obviously exceptional to even make it to the NHL, but from a purely aesthetic standpoint, plenty of them look like little boys. Judging 19 year old prospects for their bodies in this sport is definitely silly. Half the 30 year olds, the only difference is they have more hair.

Here’s Malkin, McDavid, Brassard, Toews vs Brindamour

 

[nyr2k2]

I don't know why they rushed Kravtsov to North America instead of letting him marinade and dominate in KHL especially when they did not have much of a roster spot for him and having terrible development at AHL.

I am starting to suspect that the bullying that Lias was referring was coming from the Wolfpack coaching staff.

But then he is like a lame duck there and they know that he does not have much future there and they don't spend much effort developing him in KHL and will not be looking to give him a lot of good icetime. What they need to do is play him 18 minutes a game in AHL for at least half a season and if this coach refuses then replace him. Other possibility is loan him to a European/non-KHL team because their season will likely start a lot sooner than AHL season.

He wanted to rush himself, they initially convinced him to play his D+1 year in the KHL. And if you think they should have left him there, how is that any different than sending him back? He was no more of a lame duck last season than he would have been had he not come over in the first place. Kids get drafted from European leagues, the European team knows they'll leave eventually, that's how it works. Sometimes the kids end up with a reduced role as a result. That happens whether they leave and are loaned back or whether they never leave. Do you think Traktor would have invested time developing him last season had he not started the year in NA? No, because they'd still know he was leaving sooner rather than later. The only way you get around this is if the player were to sign a multi-year contract to stay in the KHL, which I have not seen you suggest. I feel like you're contradicting yourself.

JD and Gorton need to do something about Hartford it has to be a good fun place for young prospects, not a place where the players have nervous breakdowns (Kasparaitis, Lias, Lyashenko, etc.) and run off to other leagues.

I was kind of joking when I said he does not want to play with Lemieux. the quote "Не буду говорить, с какими бы партнерами хотел бы сыграть. Это неправильно, да и некрасиво. Но я хотел бы выходить с теми, кто творит на льду. Не просто закидывает шайбу в зону и борется, а играет в хоккей." actually reads "I will not say with which linemates I would like to play with. That would be wrong and not nice/appropriate. But I would like to play with creative players. Not just dump and chase, but plays hockey" To be honest I think it was the worst quote from him in that entire interview.

Kasparaitis? He was going through a bad divorce, came to camp fat, had played in the NHL for a decade and a half, and suddenly found himself in the AHL. That's not a Hartford problem, that was just a guy finding himself in a downward spiral and had a mental breakdown. But they did good by Kasparaitis. They let him take a leave of absence, let him come back to practice when he wanted to, not practice when he wanted to, and implemented a support system for him. When it was clear he couldn't play anymore they let him play in Russia. Terrible example.

Lyashenko? That's just f***ed up to even mention what he dealt with personally in the same conversation as brats like Andersson and Kravtsov. Lyashenko was with his family on vacation in Turkey when he ended his life. Are you implying he did this because things were so terrible in Hartford? Again, without some sort of supporting evidence, that's beyond the pale.

I'm sure there are things that the team could have done better in this situation, but you seem to be affixing all of the blame to the Rangers/Hartford and none whatsoever to Kravtsov. The fact that you try to support the "Hartford is a bad environment" narrative with a 15-year veteran being demoted a decade and a half ago and a young guy taking his life nearly twenty years ago is a bizarre stretch.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

You know we're always talking about character - and I don't want to read too much in to Kravtsov's character as a whole because of some comments made here that are most likely considerably muddied because of the language and cultural barrier - but there is very much to be said for a kid just going down to the minors even if he wholly disagrees with it and playing his ass off regardless of how he feels treated.

Chytil did it. Lindgren spent time down there. Pionk as well. And for all the negative talk about Tony D's character - that guy came here with NHL experience and went to the AHL when assigned there and we never heard a peep out of him and he played well and earned his way back up here.

 

[NYSPORTS]

View attachment 352035 View attachment 352036 View attachment 352037 View attachment 352038 View attachment 352039

Moreover most hockey players have very uninspiring bodies according to gym rat/modern fitness standards. Find me a hockey player besides Ovie or Jagr who is built like a freight train.

There is a difference though. First off, these skinny kids are listed at weights they aren’t close too. Perfect example was the prospect camp where the media had the prospects name, height and weights. Lundkvist who listed at 184 and he’s standing in clothes right next to Fox who was supposedly the same weight. You could eye ball it and recognize Fox was a much thicker and heavier body than Nils who was two years younger.

As far as built, over the years of travel and going to gyms it’s funny. The football players are heavy up top with usually the legs far behind while if you go to a gym in a Minny or any Canadian City the kids are frail up top yet their legs are jacked. The football played can bench 225lbs with regularity while the hockey kids would rather do pushups (if any) rather than attempt a 150lbs bench press. Meanwhile, the hockey kids can floor it on a spinner bike whereas the football guys would opt for jog on the treadmill.

with age, there is a man power which emerges for the most part though. Although i haven’t given Marc Staal a shot lately but will mention from my bias perspective, until just this past year, his listed weight never changed since his rookie year. Always felt he never added any muscle and is the main reason for decline whereas many feel it was injuries.

Anyway, give the prospects time to develop. Some are closer in age to Prom than they are the legal drinking age.

 

[nyr2k2]

From what I saw, a majority of what Kravtsov struggled with, both before he left and after he came back, was unrelated to his physical strength or conditioning. It was more effort-based, in terms of back-checking, engaging, and then also knowing what to do with the puck on his stick, playing a bit more of a north-south game, etc. He got better in terms of his hustle and willingness to engage and definitely improved in terms of getting back and helping out. The offensive stuff, I didn't see a ton of improvement on. But it wasn't because he was weak or in substandard shape. Of course, additional strength would help him, but that's true of almost every guy his age.

Not a fan of the "I need to play with creative players" thing. The AHL is loaded with creative, highly-skilled players that can't make the NHL for a variety of reasons unrelated to their natural talent, and those guys have no problem posting good numbers in the AHL playing with a wide range of players. And I mean, guess what--one day you might have to suffer playing opposite Kreider, who is an excellent player but not one who is known for being particularly creative. There are a variety of ways to make it in the NHL, and if you're expecting/needing to play exclusively with creative, slick-passing, dangle-master-type players, you're going to be in for a rude awakening.

 

[Levitate]

eh those comments sound like the typical players who don't want to be expected to put up points playing a north south dump and chase game that they clearly aren't built for.

A player like Kravtsov needs to be able to play a creative game and you can't just stick him with players who aren't going to help him with that. Not saying he has to play with top players right away but you also can't expect him to play dump and chase and ever get anywhere. He needs to learn when to try to be fancy and when not to be but playing with other players who can move the puck around effectively is necessary

 

[Thirty One]

View attachment 352035 View attachment 352036 View attachment 352037 View attachment 352038 View attachment 352039

Moreover most hockey players have very uninspiring bodies according to gym rat/modern fitness standards. Find me a hockey player besides Ovie or Jagr who is built like a freight train. Unless you’re able to look at their legs or lungs, you really won’t be impressed. Some of them enjoy the weight room and build their upper bodies, but for every Rod Brindamour, there’s a lot of noodle arms without abs. The workouts are all endurance and explosiveness and their cardio and lower body strength are obviously exceptional to even make it to the NHL, but from a purely aesthetic standpoint, plenty of them look like little boys. Judging 19 year old prospects for their bodies in this sport is definitely silly. Half the 30 year olds, the only difference is they have more hair.

Here’s Malkin, McDavid, Brassard, Toews vs Brindamour

This isn't a babe thread.

 

[Thirty One]

For as alarming as that interview is in some places, it's a very good sign that he's in New York to be quarantined for weeks and likely not play in any hockey games. Established players in other leagues are opting out and we'll see about established NHLers.

 

[LokiDog]

This isn't a babe thread.

Only Brindamour was a babe

But that was kind of my point. It’s silly to look at these guys really at any age and say they don’t have impressive physiques. Most of them don’t look like “professional athletes”. Heck, look at Phil Kessel. But he’d gas me on an air assault bike, just like all of these guys would and they have astounding explosiveness and lower body strength to go with it. Hockey players, with exceptions, have some of the least “impressive” builds out there so thinking a kid under 20 looking like a twig is a condemnation of his fitness or ability is probably misguided. Will he gain strength as he gets older? One certainly hopes, and would some added muscle be beneficial? In most cases yes, but even when they’ve hit their prime and are star players head and shoulders above the rest of the best league in the world, plenty of them still look like Malkin, Toews and McDavid. Kravstov’s apparent lack (or not) of muscle mass is not a concern. Hopefully his attitude isn’t either.

 

[Anthony5967]

Actually met Vitali after a practice in Chelsea Piers last year during camp over the Summer and he was all bone. The place had cleared it, and it was only his mother and brother hanging around. It was pretty cool that they practiced for the public over the course of a couple of days. He and his family were pretty nice, for what it's worth. I really think they have to sit down with him, Bobrov, Sather, Gorton, JD, Quinn, and explain to him what's going on.

 

[nyr2k2]

eh those comments sound like the typical players who don't want to be expected to put up points playing a north south dump and chase game that they clearly aren't built for.

A player like Kravtsov needs to be able to play a creative game and you can't just stick him with players who aren't going to help him with that. Not saying he has to play with top players right away but you also can't expect him to play dump and chase and ever get anywhere. He needs to learn when to try to be fancy and when not to be but playing with other players who can move the puck around effectively is necessary

He was facing the same "issue" in Traktor. He started off getting looks with the "good" offensive guys like Sedlak (who sucked in the AHL) and Calof, but soon enough he was lining up with guys like Kruchinin, a marginal offensive player even in the KHL, and Sharov, who had 2 points in 36 games. Everyone wants to play with the skilled players, and he was given that opportunity when he first went back, but you still need to put in the effort to remain there. That's what I'm not sure he gets--that simply being one of the most talented players does not guarantee you a spot with other talented players; it has to be continually earned.

In Hartford, once he actually started busting his ass, he did get to play with O'Regan, Lettieri, Di Giuseppe, Nieves, and Fogarty. Those guys all have skill, at least on the level of the guys he played with briefly this year in the KHL and last year like Ryan Stoa and Christian Thomas. IDK, I just feel like the whole "I don't want to play with guys who just throw the puck into the corner and battle" thing is something he'll need to get over, because even the skilled players still have to do that in the NHL.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

There is a difference though. First off, these skinny kids are listed at weights they aren’t close too. Perfect example was the prospect camp where the media had the prospects name, height and weights. Lundkvist who listed at 184 and he’s standing in clothes right next to Fox who was supposedly the same weight. You could eye ball it and recognize Fox was a much thicker and heavier body than Nils who was two years younger.

They're not eyeballing these numbers, you know. The measurements are recorded by the NHL or the league where they play.

 

[Trxjw]

Going to give him the benefit of the doubt with the translation. That being said it's hard not to feel like the Rangers drafted a couple kids in the top-10 who assumed their stock would give them an easy path to the NHL.

 

[NYSPORTS]

They're not eyeballing these numbers, you know. The measurements are recorded by the NHL or the league where they play.

Standing side by side you didn’t need a scale to see size difference between the two players while Nils is now listed much lighter today than last year. Meanwhile, football weights have been off for decades.