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WC: 2017 Team USA

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AmericanDream said:
do you honestly feel we are going to fill that out? I don't recall if we ever fully filled out the 25 man roster - I don't think USA Hockey has any clue what they are doing at this tournament which the article you linked pretty much showed- very good read by the way.

to me, they will stay loyal to college kids they picked, I hope I am wrong but if we truly have 6 more spots to fill, this team can get real good real fast if they do it.
Click to expand...

With USAH, you never know, but we certainly should fill out the roster. The only reason I could see them not doing so is possible incompetence. If they didn't approach the invites to guys like Greenway, Brickley, Bjork, etc. with transparency that their potential playing time, if any, was contingent on who else decides to accept invites, then I can see USAH management turtling with some stock loyalty excuse as you mention like "we have our guys" or "we really like the current makeup of our team". They've already screwed up because guys like the aforementioned should only have conditional invites at best at this point, but USAH gonna USAH. I remember the year (many WCs ago) when Parise (in his prime) and the Devils were eliminated from the playoffs, and he was asked by the beat reporters if he was going to go the Worlds, and he said he wanted to play, but we had already filled up our roster with fringe players. The smart play, and the USAH play, often don't coincide.

Looking at the last few WCs, our roster sizes have been:

2016: 24 (3G, 7D, 14F) - 1 open spot
2015: 25 (3G, 8D, 14F) - Full roster
2014: 25 (3G, 8D, 14F) - Full roster
2013: 25 (3G, 8D, 14F) - Full roster

I would expect us to fill the roster, and we should only be bringing top tier guys at this point.

The guys I think we should realistically target for acceptance with our last 6 spots:

1) Johnny Gaudreau
2) Seth Jones
3) Cam Atkinson
4) Nick Foligno / Brandon Dubinsky / Charlie Coyle / Brandon Saad
5/6) Two eliminated or already available d-men (Pesce, Gardiner, Carlson, McAvoy, Niskanen, etc.)

I'd really narrow the above down to Gaudreau and Jones as the obvious (likely soon to be available) choices to start, and then regroup from there once the first round of the playoffs finish shaking out. Atkinson's speed and goal scoring would be great on the big ice, and I think the team could use a veteran presence like Foligno (plus he talks glowingly of his experiences playing for Team USA in this tournament). However, they'd be well served by adding another true center, so Dubinsky may be a better fit as a veteran presence, or they may shirk a veteran and go younger with a Saad, Tkachuk, etc.

The reason I'd only start with Gaudreau and Jones is because if a guy like Kane wants to play, or Matthews becomes available, your plans change, but Gaudreau/Jones are safe if they want to play no matter who's available.

I think we can realistically count these guys out if they're even available:

1) Patrick Kane. I obviously hope he wants to play, but I'll believe it when I see it.
2) Ryan Suter. Same as Kane.
3) Kevin Shattenkirk. UFA.
4) TJ Oshie. UFA
5) Zach Parise. We have better players available. If some of the top targets decline, I'd happily welcome him, but I don't think he'd play.
 
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Gonna need the Caps to knock out Toronto cause if that happens, the US top 6 forwards would likely consist of Matthews, Eichel, Larkin, Gaudreau, Nelson/Tkachuk, Lee. Some quality NHLers could be third liners on this year's team and that's pretty much unheard of. Top 4 of their defense could be Gardiner, Trouba, Jones, McAvoy(if Boston is eliminated). That would be a really fun team
 
William H Bonney said:
Huge. So pumped Eichel is there.

Craig Custance just put out an update from the players side about the Worlds. Eye opening but not unexpected incompetence from USAH management:

http://www.espn.com/blog/craig-cust...siderTwitter_Custance_WhyUSAStrugglesWCRoster

Makes the additions of guys like Greenway, Brickley, and Bjork even more premature. Adding a guy like Eichel will make upcoming invites to players about to be eliminated more intriguing.
Click to expand...

This is awesome. Elated with this news.

Adding Gaudreau and Saad next would be sweet.
 
JTD said:
Gonna need the Caps to knock out Toronto cause if that happens, the US top 6 forwards would likely consist of Matthews, Eichel, Larkin, Gaudreau, Nelson/Tkachuk, Lee. Some quality NHLers could be third liners on this year's team and that's pretty much unheard of. Top 4 of their defense could be Gardiner, Trouba, Jones, McAvoy(if Boston is eliminated). That would be a really fun team
Click to expand...

Gardiner has come for what seems like the past half decade...not sure if he comes again to be honest, but if he sees the team as a contender, maybe we get him again which would be great.
 
AmericanDream said:
exactly, my problem is this - if you are unsure how many guys will accept from playoff teams, fine, ask some college kids if they will play, but don't name them right away..tell them it is contingent on players accepting 1st round playoff loses - how freaking hard is that?

my issue with naming these college kids is it absolutely hampers whatever excitement or solid looking team being built as guys on the bubble or about to lose in the playoffs see that and feel the team is going to be weak again - it isn't a recruiting tool - unless the kid is a legit star player like Eichel was coming out of college.

there is no reason to tell these kids - you are "back up" options that we might need. that isn't going to deter them, they know this is a great opportunity for them.
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Agreed.

As an FYI to other thread readers and not directed at you: the NHL forbids the national federations from contacting players for the WC's until after their playing season has ended. Even contacting a player still competing in the cup playoffs to gauge their interest in the WC's is verboten.
 
Good article.

USA Hockey has been burned by so many players declining invitations through the years, one player said he wasn’t even asked. He saw all the college players on the original roster and had his coach reach out to Team USA to see whether they’d be interested in adding him. They assumed the whole time that he wouldn’t want to go.
Click to expand...

I wonder if this is the case with Byfuglien this year. By the time he was interviewed and he already knew that Trouba and Hellebuyck would go to the worlds, he said he hadn't been contacted, but expected to be and would "have to cross that path when it comes", he said.

I don't need to be Einstein to make the conclusion here that there was a chance Byfuglien would've said yes had the USAHockey contacted him. It's likely that they didn't, especially given what the article above just said.

The thing with adding college players is just pure stupidity. Why do you even ask players what to do that would make them come, when you do the same mistake again?



On a positive note though, I have to say that this year's team will probably end up very very strong, so hopefully we're seeing a step in the right direction and the first strong team of many. I believe that Matthews, Gaudreau, and Tkachuk will accept if their teams are out. That alone makes the team arguably one of the best US teams ever at this tournament.
 
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mouser said:
Agreed.

As an FYI to other thread readers and not directed at you: the NHL forbids the national federations from contacting players for the WC's until after their playing season has ended. Even contacting a player still competing in the cup playoffs to gauge their interest in the WC's is verboten.
Click to expand...

I am sure there are some silly rules like that, but I am sure it is near impossible to follow/enforce especially in the day and age of texting agents and such.

And with the teams we typically send, I doubt the IIHF is really looking hard at us :laugh:

But it might explain why so many players are coming out basically saying they haven't been asked or at least in the conversation for this team.
 
William H Bonney said:
With USAH, you never know, but we certainly should fill out the roster. The only reason I could see them not doing so is possible incompetence. If they didn't approach the invites to guys like Greenway, Brickley, Bjork, etc. with transparency that their potential playing time, if any, was contingent on who else decides to accept invites, then I can see USAH management turtling with some stock loyalty excuse as you mention like "we have our guys" or "we really like the current makeup of our team". They've already screwed up because guys like the aforementioned should only have conditional invites at best at this point, but USAH gonna USAH. I remember the year (many WCs ago) when Parise (in his prime) and the Devils were eliminated from the playoffs, and he was asked by the beat reporters if he was going to go the Worlds, and he said he wanted to play, but we had already filled up our roster with fringe players. The smart play, and the USAH play, often don't coincide.

Looking at the last few WCs, our roster sizes have been:

2016: 24 (3G, 7D, 14F) - 1 open spot
2015: 25 (3G, 8D, 14F) - Full roster
2014: 25 (3G, 8D, 14F) - Full roster
2013: 25 (3G, 8D, 14F) - Full roster

I would expect us to fill the roster, and we should only be bringing top tier guys at this point.

The guys I think we should realistically target for acceptance with our last 6 spots:

1) Johnny Gaudreau
2) Seth Jones
3) Cam Atkinson
4) Nick Foligno / Brandon Dubinsky / Charlie Coyle / Brandon Saad
5/6) Two eliminated or already available d-men (Pesce, Gardiner, Carlson, McAvoy, Niskanen, etc.)

I'd really narrow the above down to Gaudreau and Jones as the obvious (likely soon to be available) choices to start, and then regroup from there once the first round of the playoffs finish shaking out. Atkinson's speed and goal scoring would be great on the big ice, and I think the team could use a veteran presence like Foligno (plus he talks glowingly of his experiences playing for Team USA in this tournament). However, they'd be well served by adding another true center, so Dubinsky may be a better fit as a veteran presence, or they may shirk a veteran and go younger with a Saad, Tkachuk, etc.

The reason I'd only start with Gaudreau and Jones is because if a guy like Kane wants to play, or Matthews becomes available, your plans change, but Gaudreau/Jones are safe if they want to play no matter who's available.

I think we can realistically count these guys out if they're even available:

1) Patrick Kane. I obviously hope he wants to play, but I'll believe it when I see it.
2) Ryan Suter. Same as Kane.
3) Kevin Shattenkirk. UFA.
4) TJ Oshie. UFA
5) Zach Parise. We have better players available. If some of the top targets decline, I'd happily welcome him, but I don't think he'd play.
Click to expand...

Good to see we have maxed out our roster most years..felt as if most years we didn't.

They most certainly should fill up to the max so this could be a real solid team.

My gut is telling me Atkinson, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, and Jones are the big 4 we land with a possible Zucker/Coyle add and maybe a young McAvoy on defense.

The way Foligno spoke of this experience was awesome, I am sure he is in the mix as well after having a nice bounce back year - would love him as well for that veteran presence.

If we land anything close to that, this team is a serious contender for a Gold medal.

I have no hope that Kane will come, it has been year after year of long seasons with all the playoffs, and with the World Cup already played, I am sure he is done - but one can dream!

Suter should play, he could be the true leader here on the point, but like you said doubtful he steps up and brings his service to this squad.

Regardless we now have some names again to consider and we should know pretty quickly if we get the Calgary boys or one of them which would be a great start to the final 6 spots.

Let us see if the Eichel effect is real, and guys will come now!
 
Running list of Accepted Invites TEAM USA


Goaltending
1. Connor Hellebuyck
2. Jimmy Howard
3. Cal Petersen

Defense
1.Jacob Trouba
2.Connor Murphy
3.Danny DeKeyser
4.Daniel Brickley
5.Noah Hanifin
6.
7.
8.

Forwards
1.Dylan Larkin
2.Andrew Copp
3.Christian Dvorak
4.Nick Bjugstad
5.J.T. Compher
6.Brock Nelson
7.Anders Lee
8.Jordan Greenway
9.Clayton Keller
10.Anders Bjork
11.Jack Eichel :popcorn: :yo: :handclap:
12.Johnny "Hockey" Gaudreau - think it, will it, believe it, think it, will it, believe it!
13.
14.
 
AmericanDream said:
Running list of Accepted Invites TEAM USA


Goaltending
1. Connor Hellebuyck
2. Jimmy Howard
3. Cal Petersen

Defense
1.Jacob Trouba
2.Connor Murphy
3.Danny DeKeyser
4.Daniel Brickley
5.Noah Hanifin
6.
7.
8.

Forwards
1.Dylan Larkin
2.Andrew Copp
3.Christian Dvorak
4.Nick Bjugstad
5.J.T. Compher
6.Brock Nelson
7.Anders Lee
8.Jordan Greenway
9.Clayton Keller
10.Anders Bjork
11.Jack Eichel :popcorn: :yo: :handclap:
12.Johnny "Hockey" Gaudreau - think it, will it, believe it, think it, will it, believe it!
13.
14.
Click to expand...

13 Kane
14 Matthews:handclap::handclap::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
 
Gaudreau-Matthews-Kane
Larkin-Eichel-Atkinson
Lee Nelson Dvorak
Copp Bjugstad Keller
Compher

Greenway
Bjork



Suter-Verensky
Trouba-Hanifin
Murphy-DeKeyser

Brickley
 
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AmericanDream said:
I am sure there are some silly rules like that, but I am sure it is near impossible to follow/enforce especially in the day and age of texting agents and such.

And with the teams we typically send, I doubt the IIHF is really looking hard at us :laugh:

But it might explain why so many players are coming out basically saying they haven't been asked or at least in the conversation for this team.
Click to expand...

It might be difficult to prove it happened, but it is easy to enforce. The PA and NHL negotiated a set of conditions in the CBA for players to be released by their teams to compete in the WC. If the NHL decides a national federation contacted a player while still in the cup playoffs they can refuse to release that player for the WC.

I would add this is a new rule introduced in the 2013 CBA. So the NHL probably had an issue with the practice beforehand and is likely to be more diligent enforcing it now.
 
Really happy to see the names announced so far. Even if that's it, it's still a step in the right direction.
 
mouser said:
It might be difficult to prove it happened, but it is easy to enforce. The PA and NHL negotiated a set of conditions in the CBA for players to be released by their teams to compete in the WC. If the NHL decides a national federation contacted a player while still in the cup playoffs they can refuse to release that player for the WC.

I would add this is a new rule introduced in the 2013 CBA. So the NHL probably had an issue with the practice beforehand and is likely to be more diligent enforcing it now.
Click to expand...

Does that rule only apply to when the reg. season ends? The Russian Ice Hockey Federation is in constant contact with their players re: the World Hockey Championship from late January on to the end of the season. They dispatch representatives to scout games of Russian players and meet with players to discuss "issues" pre and post game. I'm sure the topic of WHC is never brought up.
 
no ****ing way

if Kane is on the team I'm gonna go crazy. This sounds legit though! :amazed: wow.
 
I would be utterly speechless if this is the case - I don't believe it, I just can't...I watched them get outplayed yet again, I can't imagine Kane who did look like he was trying out there and one of the more dangerous forwards all series wants to keep playing this year after such disappointment...
 
tade said:
You are the best.

If Kane is going, then it means that there are 2 more spots available for forwards, right? Perfectly suited for Matthews and Gaudreau, (or Saad/Atkinson). Let it happen.
Click to expand...

Kane and Co. deliver 1st. ever Gold Medal (modern era) for Team USA and Bettman and owners immediately reverse track and beg IOC to allow NHLers to play 2018 Olympics.

and if Canada doesn't fill out the final 4-5 roster spots with A- list A-Team players, then I believe the Gold Medal is all but out of reach this year for my Canadian boys.
 
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