WJC: 2017 Switzerland Roster Talk
- Thread starter Speyer
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
- Status
Thx for starting it.
A few thoughts:
Losing the tremendous 96er top forwards does cause some worries. Many said last year was a peak year for the U20. Luckily there are a few excellent young guns who might can compensate the loss. Judging this team, alot will depend on Malgin being available or not.
But even without him it's not a shabby team at all.
The 97ers, by experts' view, was classed as the best generation, the Swiss had so far. Even if they can't completely live up to the hype, they are as a group pretty strong. Their results through the last 5 years are promisingly good on international stage, from U16 till U20. Comparable to the 92ers or 89ers.
Not a lot of questionable omissions this year IMO. I did a longlist myself, and the recent list differs hardly. (-Burren, Riva, Portmann,Chiquet +Moor, Pinana, Impose, Holdener) Im not sure if Pinana and Moor are still injured, nevertheless Riva played a good game against Ambri, and for Burren, it's a bit a cinderella run. He once was a leader of this age class U16,u17, but lost his spot later. He's a Rightie as well, the only D beside Karrer. They deserve to be in the competition.
Holdener might lost his spot with his recent escape out of Biel. Impose on the other hand was on the up-swing lately. His dedication and skating is truly elite. But as Rafik has red flagged him at an early stage of his career, his flaws are evident. Unfortunately he 's an analphabet when it comes to reading the game. All hustle, hardly any results. He'll never be an Ambühl, but maybe like Bertaggia. With his spirit and and heart, I would take him as a perpetuum mobile on the 4th line.
In general the 97er offers tremendous depth with good forwards, but lacks a bit on the elite side. 3 Draftpicks.
On D, the toptalent is good, but not outstanding. Depth is average.
And van Pottelberghe in goal. Talented, but prone to stupid mistakes from time to time.
The underagers complement the team well.
Rytz and Wüthrich are nice talents. Especially Ritz could challenge JvP.
Biggest questionmark is on defense IMO. Karrer, Siegenthaler, Stadler are the leaders. Geisser could grab a spot in the top 4 as a double-underager without being an outstanding talent himself. And with Gross even a triple-underager on board, this says something about the depth.
The forward group is promising and the Centerdepth, even without Malgin, excellent. Hischier, Kurashev, Diem, Zehnder, Marchon. That gives you some options.
The leaders on wing must be Riat and Thürkauf. They had a strong tournament in sumer's u20 prepgames, centered by Marchon.
Haussener, Zehnder, Haberstich play as a successfull line in NLB. Some chemistry as well.
Eggenberger and Miranda have the talent, to influence the game.
Im pretty optimistic.
But the Finns have an excellent team, even without Laine, Puljujärvi or Aho. Sweden will be strong too. They might battle it out with the Czechs for 3rd in their group.
A few thoughts:
Losing the tremendous 96er top forwards does cause some worries. Many said last year was a peak year for the U20. Luckily there are a few excellent young guns who might can compensate the loss. Judging this team, alot will depend on Malgin being available or not.
But even without him it's not a shabby team at all.
The 97ers, by experts' view, was classed as the best generation, the Swiss had so far. Even if they can't completely live up to the hype, they are as a group pretty strong. Their results through the last 5 years are promisingly good on international stage, from U16 till U20. Comparable to the 92ers or 89ers.
Not a lot of questionable omissions this year IMO. I did a longlist myself, and the recent list differs hardly. (-Burren, Riva, Portmann,Chiquet +Moor, Pinana, Impose, Holdener) Im not sure if Pinana and Moor are still injured, nevertheless Riva played a good game against Ambri, and for Burren, it's a bit a cinderella run. He once was a leader of this age class U16,u17, but lost his spot later. He's a Rightie as well, the only D beside Karrer. They deserve to be in the competition.
Holdener might lost his spot with his recent escape out of Biel. Impose on the other hand was on the up-swing lately. His dedication and skating is truly elite. But as Rafik has red flagged him at an early stage of his career, his flaws are evident. Unfortunately he 's an analphabet when it comes to reading the game. All hustle, hardly any results. He'll never be an Ambühl, but maybe like Bertaggia. With his spirit and and heart, I would take him as a perpetuum mobile on the 4th line.
In general the 97er offers tremendous depth with good forwards, but lacks a bit on the elite side. 3 Draftpicks.
On D, the toptalent is good, but not outstanding. Depth is average.
And van Pottelberghe in goal. Talented, but prone to stupid mistakes from time to time.
The underagers complement the team well.
Rytz and Wüthrich are nice talents. Especially Ritz could challenge JvP.
Biggest questionmark is on defense IMO. Karrer, Siegenthaler, Stadler are the leaders. Geisser could grab a spot in the top 4 as a double-underager without being an outstanding talent himself. And with Gross even a triple-underager on board, this says something about the depth.
The forward group is promising and the Centerdepth, even without Malgin, excellent. Hischier, Kurashev, Diem, Zehnder, Marchon. That gives you some options.
The leaders on wing must be Riat and Thürkauf. They had a strong tournament in sumer's u20 prepgames, centered by Marchon.
Haussener, Zehnder, Haberstich play as a successfull line in NLB. Some chemistry as well.
Eggenberger and Miranda have the talent, to influence the game.
Im pretty optimistic.
But the Finns have an excellent team, even without Laine, Puljujärvi or Aho. Sweden will be strong too. They might battle it out with the Czechs for 3rd in their group.
What i worry the more is the lack of good goalies in this squad. The last 2 years, the goaltenders percentage was:
- 2014: 86.79
- 2015: 87.21
- 2016: 84.97
And i see no sign on improvement for this year. The supposed number one Van Pottenberghe has a bad year and have trouble to prove than his draft was a good Red Wings choice. The 2 others are unproved. So the goalies situation seems worse than last year. Descloux had a good hype but collapsed completely during the 2 last tournaments.
I dont want to be pessimistic cause i m a one like this. But it seems normal to not seeing this as a good sign.
I dont know if a big talents are in the system. I hope the ZSC organisation does his maximum to find some solution. They were good for this in the past but i cannot see one realy good one coming. When i say good, it's in international level, not the national where Descloux - for example- have very good reputation, but speaking WM U20... It's bit a shame.
Is the specialist prospect Rafik Soliman have a answer about this? Is a great goalie in the system could show up?
I think it's the same problem at senior team. The only one i 'm comfortable with is Genoni.
- 2014: 86.79
- 2015: 87.21
- 2016: 84.97
And i see no sign on improvement for this year. The supposed number one Van Pottenberghe has a bad year and have trouble to prove than his draft was a good Red Wings choice. The 2 others are unproved. So the goalies situation seems worse than last year. Descloux had a good hype but collapsed completely during the 2 last tournaments.
I dont want to be pessimistic cause i m a one like this. But it seems normal to not seeing this as a good sign.
I dont know if a big talents are in the system. I hope the ZSC organisation does his maximum to find some solution. They were good for this in the past but i cannot see one realy good one coming. When i say good, it's in international level, not the national where Descloux - for example- have very good reputation, but speaking WM U20... It's bit a shame.
Is the specialist prospect Rafik Soliman have a answer about this? Is a great goalie in the system could show up?
I think it's the same problem at senior team. The only one i 'm comfortable with is Genoni.
What i worry the more is the lack of good goalies in this squad. The last 2 years, the goaltenders percentage was:
- 2014: 86.79
- 2015: 87.21
- 2016: 84.97
And i see no sign on improvement for this year. The supposed number one Van Pottenberghe has a bad year and have trouble to prove than his draft was a good Red Wings choice. The 2 others are unproved. So the goalies situation seems worse than last year. Descloux had a good hype but collapsed completely during the 2 last tournaments.
I dont want to be pessimistic cause i m a one like this. But it seems normal to not seeing this as a good sign.
I dont know if a big talents are in the system. I hope the ZSC organisation does his maximum to find some solution. They were good for this in the past but i cannot see one realy good one coming. When i say good, it's in international level, not the national where Descloux - for example- have very good reputation, but speaking WM U20... It's bit a shame.
Is the specialist prospect Rafik Soliman have a answer about this? Is a great goalie in the system could show up?
I think it's the same problem at senior team. The only one i 'm comfortable with is Genoni.
I agree that Goalkeeping has been the best position in swiss hockey for the generations born in the 80s/ 70s and 60s.... Can't say that about the guys born in the 90s. It's a forwards' decade (+Josi). Partly because the forwards got stronger, but unfortunately because the goalies disappoint in talent and development too.
Especially in the years 89-95 no big talent was born. And there we got a hole now once Berra, Flüeler and Genoni will retire internationally and already now in the league. But, and there we disagree, IMO the next talents who could fill the hole will come from generation 96-98. Waeber, Descloux, Senn, JvP, Rytz, Wüthrich, Chuard. All got the talent to play NLA. A few will develop properly, I hope.
I prefer Senn to van Pottelberghe. But the one I liked most so far is Rytz. He's a good one.
Overall, GKs are always the hardest to judge, how they will grow. And Goalkeeping on junior tournaments is hard to predict. A average goalie can turn red hot a la Conz and vice versa. First match is even more crucial than for senior GKs. And as the game is more open, you can look really bad statswise on this level. I think the Swiss dont play total collapsing defense anymore most of the time. It makes it a bit trickier too. But overall it's about time we get a tournament with outstanding goalkeeping.
First prep game is done. 3-4 loss to the USA is a respectable result to start it all.
They went with proven chemistry in the line-up. Siegenthaler and Karrer on D, the Marchon-Line and Zehnder-Line on O.
I wonder, when they keep it like this, where Malgin would slot-in. Decision about his participation is expected until tomorrow, I read. Would they move Hischier to his wing?
1GK, 1 D and 1-2 Fs will probably be cut. If I had to decide, I'd cut Wüthrich, Weber and Portmann (and In-Albon or Kurashev, if Malgin comes).
It's one of those rare years, where the depth for centers is better than for wings.
If Malgin joins, this team could be quite an inconvenient opponent.
They went with proven chemistry in the line-up. Siegenthaler and Karrer on D, the Marchon-Line and Zehnder-Line on O.
I wonder, when they keep it like this, where Malgin would slot-in. Decision about his participation is expected until tomorrow, I read. Would they move Hischier to his wing?
1GK, 1 D and 1-2 Fs will probably be cut. If I had to decide, I'd cut Wüthrich, Weber and Portmann (and In-Albon or Kurashev, if Malgin comes).
It's one of those rare years, where the depth for centers is better than for wings.
If Malgin joins, this team could be quite an inconvenient opponent.
Canada4Gold
Registered User
- Dec 22, 2010
- 43,235
- 9,426
NHL roster freeze has already gone into affect so 0% before I believe December 28th if he's not already released, and likely very close to 0 chnace they release him after that if there's been no talk of it up to now.
Im not so much into the NHL's book of rules. Wasn't aware of that. It's a bit bizarre, cause it was the swiss GM, who talked about the 23rd in an Interview.
I vaguely recall they took a while to decide on Pastrnak last year (well after the roster freeze) so it's not impossible
Florida doesn't release Malgin.
Geisser and Kurashev are the final cuts among skaters, both Double-underagers, they should be around next winter. 3 GKs are still in.
It could be a tough battle for 2nd place ( and avoiding relegation games aswell) in the swiss group. Sweden is ahead, but Finland missing 5 of their top forwards, Czech Rep.'s struggles in prep games and Denmark having a deep roster.
Geisser and Kurashev are the final cuts among skaters, both Double-underagers, they should be around next winter. 3 GKs are still in.
It could be a tough battle for 2nd place ( and avoiding relegation games aswell) in the swiss group. Sweden is ahead, but Finland missing 5 of their top forwards, Czech Rep.'s struggles in prep games and Denmark having a deep roster.
torero
Registered User
two demo games ... against US and Canada in NA soil with rink sizes.
both 4-3 losses.
i take it as a great positive.
1/4 finals in sight
both 4-3 losses.
i take it as a great positive.
1/4 finals in sight
Still can't see why a guy like Weber makes the team over Geisser. The physical presents of Bircher could have helped too.
Besides, I hope Rytz takes over nr.1 between the pipes, I'd feel more comfortable with him than with JvP.
That said:
Hopp Schwiiz!!!.... To the Semis!
Besides, I hope Rytz takes over nr.1 between the pipes, I'd feel more comfortable with him than with JvP.
That said:
Hopp Schwiiz!!!.... To the Semis!
torero
Registered User
The way they played today ...the semis are doable, even beyond with a bit of luck.
They are not bad ... i believe that the coach is making the team quiet. Which is a blessing for a team. That made part of the difference between the Czechs and us.
I would even say that i felt that the Czechs, in spite of dominating in puck possession, were lucky to have a point. The Swiss were, IMO, the better and more efficient team.
To be honest. The Czechs were better than i expected them. A lot of skill in that team. Skillwise at least one step ahead. And while there was a lot of perimeter play, they had their fair share of scoring chances. Too many penalties hurt them.
The Swiss played a well organised game with a lot of heart. Were efficient, when it mattered on offense and had a GK that played a surprisingly calm and concentrated game for a long time, that kept the team positive. Second half of the 2nd period was the best the Swiss showed IMO.
Some thoughts about the players:
JvP: they were bombs, the Chlapik goals, but maybe not totally unsafeable. Beside that, very good game for 40 min.
D:
Siegenthaler: was a true leader throughout the game. Still don't like him to much as a quarterback on PP, can't sell his passes good enough IMO. His shot is still a concern.
Karrer: had a good game too, a few mistakes, but a lot of quick and smart plays too, good skating, good intensity.
Weber: better, than I expected. Good gap control, always envovled in spite of his small stature. Good with the puck as well.
Stadler: had a difficult game and a few lapses, and his TOI is showing it. Disappointing for a designated leader.
O: Wohlwend was mixing it up during the Game. Portmann had no icetime. The 4th line didn't play much in the second half of the game. Marchon was demoted to it, Zehnder took over the 1st line spot. Eggenberger and Riat switched spots too.
Thürkauf: plays a prototypical canadian game. Big, strong, intense and dangerous around the goal. A fine leader and captain.
Hischier: what can you say? Played as hoped. Strong 2-way game, outstanding down low, so smart. Lovely.
Miranda: 2 sensational rushes, so skilled, hoped for a strong performance. Unfortunately not on the scoresheet.
The Swiss played a well organised game with a lot of heart. Were efficient, when it mattered on offense and had a GK that played a surprisingly calm and concentrated game for a long time, that kept the team positive. Second half of the 2nd period was the best the Swiss showed IMO.
Some thoughts about the players:
JvP: they were bombs, the Chlapik goals, but maybe not totally unsafeable. Beside that, very good game for 40 min.
D:
Siegenthaler: was a true leader throughout the game. Still don't like him to much as a quarterback on PP, can't sell his passes good enough IMO. His shot is still a concern.
Karrer: had a good game too, a few mistakes, but a lot of quick and smart plays too, good skating, good intensity.
Weber: better, than I expected. Good gap control, always envovled in spite of his small stature. Good with the puck as well.
Stadler: had a difficult game and a few lapses, and his TOI is showing it. Disappointing for a designated leader.
O: Wohlwend was mixing it up during the Game. Portmann had no icetime. The 4th line didn't play much in the second half of the game. Marchon was demoted to it, Zehnder took over the 1st line spot. Eggenberger and Riat switched spots too.
Thürkauf: plays a prototypical canadian game. Big, strong, intense and dangerous around the goal. A fine leader and captain.
Hischier: what can you say? Played as hoped. Strong 2-way game, outstanding down low, so smart. Lovely.
Miranda: 2 sensational rushes, so skilled, hoped for a strong performance. Unfortunately not on the scoresheet.
torero
Registered User
i praise Wohlwend ... doing a gooood job.
I like the Swiss team ... pity their is not more depth.
It shows when we play 4vs4 ... superior vs the Czechs and equal/slightly-superior vs the Swedes.
We should get the semis ... if luck is on our side in the QF.
I like the Swiss team ... pity their is not more depth.
It shows when we play 4vs4 ... superior vs the Czechs and equal/slightly-superior vs the Swedes.
We should get the semis ... if luck is on our side in the QF.
Yeah, I think Wohlwend did a solid job. Going to the Quarters with a much weaker roster than the last two years is good. You can discuss the overplaying of Siegenthaler, but if you win you're always right. The game vs. Denmark was dominant in the end, a pity that they scored on every possibility in the first period.
And I still hope that Van Pottelberghe can be the goalkeeper we need in the future. We have to look 10 years back when we want to see a Swiss goalkeeper who played a WC-game in the meantime. We really need someone to step up. He still has some weaknesses but I think he's on a good way.
And I still hope that Van Pottelberghe can be the goalkeeper we need in the future. We have to look 10 years back when we want to see a Swiss goalkeeper who played a WC-game in the meantime. We really need someone to step up. He still has some weaknesses but I think he's on a good way.
Yep, the goalie position is what worries me as well. We have a bit of a hole age-wise after Berra/Genoni. Flüeler is good, but when compared to what other top 10 nations can ice... yeah.
I really hope vP can have a long and healthy career. The talent definitely is there.
torero
Registered User
I didn't watch the Finland game, but watching the stats, reading the (very short) game thread on hfboards, watching different things including the chronology of events that day, i wonder if Wohlwend really wanted to win that game ??
Some thoughts ?
Some thoughts ?
Seeing his interview after the game... (here for those who can access it) he wanted to win it. He heavily criticized the Swiss hockey mentality to do only the minimum when you don't have to do more. He called the shot statistic a scandal. The staff wanted to wake up the guys but apparently they just didn't want to. He also said that he wants to see the guys battling against USA, no matter if they win or lose.
- Sep 29, 2016
- 12,972
- 6,628
Wohlwend is about as good of a Coach as his interviews.
He overplayed several key players twice within 24h. After only one day of rest he overplayed them again and forced them to put in a huge effort to come back from a three goal deficit against Denmark. These are just kids. Now what did he expect? Everyone to be fresh and ready to once again after giving their all in a totally meaningless game after they had to battle so hard to qualify? He totally underestimated the fatigue factor. Yesterday everyone was in survival mode and for a good reason. They all want to be rested and, most importantly, healthy for the quarterfinals.
You gotta wonder...what did he expect? A huge effort?
To give an interview like that also isn't possible. Not matter what happens...he's coaching an under 20 team. And again, he's the one responsible for their play yesterday. Should have left Pottelberghe at the hotel and played those who didn't play all that much throughout the tournament. It was Wohlwend himself who wanted it that way.
Last edited:
torero
Registered User
Thanks for the link. I can't watch it for the moment being on another territory.
Something is sure, he cannot say that he didn't want to win. You can't say that openly !!
Let's say that, maybe the Finns were playing well and he saw no absolute reason to force his team to get the win. If the win would have meant to meat Slovakia and the loss meeting Canada, you would have seen a higher use of some players vs others. You would also see less TOI for some. He would have "forced" the machine. Specially at a 2-0 result in Hockey, 2 is very little we all agree.
In this game ... all is pretty even ... with a slight modification for the TOI pattern in the 3rd period.
No player more than 20min.
Well rested Thurkauf is the top with 19min TOI.
Above 20 is a normality.
- Sep 29, 2016
- 12,972
- 6,628
He's actually right...the problem is country related...but it's different from how he describes it. We have a coaching problem. There aren't enough good Swiss coaches. While it isn't a problem to have Canadians or Swedes coaching in the NLA, it proved to be difficult for foreigners to coach our national teams.
Now. Good on Wohlwend for finally teaching our young players some kind of structure. I can't remember a Swiss under 20 squad to actually play like they're on a mission.
Having said that, his on ice management and tactical decisions aren't good at all. I'm also quite convinced that he lacks social skills. I continuously noticed how he pushed his players around during games. At first, I thought this would be sort of a positive way to motivate the players. More and more though it became clear to me that in fact, Wohlwend has serious anger problems. The way he treats his players isn't ok. Obviously you can't hear what they talk about on the bench...but the way he behaves I think pretty much tells the story. For further proof, watch the scene after the disallowed goal vs. Sweden. Wohlwend behaved like a little kid not getting his way. He even refused to listen to the explanation of the Refs. He clearly doesn't know how to deal with adversity and has no respect for anybody.
The overplayment of several players, and mainly Van Pottelberghe and Siegenthaler, fits right in there. It would be really interesting to hear about the relationship between Wohlwend and the players. Maybe I went bonkers and am just making this up but I can't help but to feel for our young players for having to deal with such a lunatic.
You mean the disallowed goal vs. Denmark, right?
On TSN they were saying during the game vs. Finland that Siegenthaler praised Wohlwends reaction there because he didn't focus on the decision but kept saying during the wait-time that they should just go on and push on because they were clearly the better team then.
I think it's a lot of speculation there. There are things we just cannot see from the outside, you may be right, you may be wrong. I don't know.
Regarding the overplay of the key players, the team reached the quarters, that's all what counts. You could have given up the game vs. SWE and maybe would have been able to compete with FIN, but that wouldn't change much anyway. Van Pottelberghe was huge vs. Finland, really huge, probably the best player on the ice by far. So he didn't look tired at all.
A coach also needs time to develop, Wohlwend is still quite young, inexperienced. He reached the main goal, we should give him at least another chance next year. He'll progress as the players will.
On TSN they were saying during the game vs. Finland that Siegenthaler praised Wohlwends reaction there because he didn't focus on the decision but kept saying during the wait-time that they should just go on and push on because they were clearly the better team then.
I think it's a lot of speculation there. There are things we just cannot see from the outside, you may be right, you may be wrong. I don't know.
Regarding the overplay of the key players, the team reached the quarters, that's all what counts. You could have given up the game vs. SWE and maybe would have been able to compete with FIN, but that wouldn't change much anyway. Van Pottelberghe was huge vs. Finland, really huge, probably the best player on the ice by far. So he didn't look tired at all.
A coach also needs time to develop, Wohlwend is still quite young, inexperienced. He reached the main goal, we should give him at least another chance next year. He'll progress as the players will.
I'd be ok with him coaching again next year too. It was definitely a gamble with SWE, but a tough decision to make during the game with the scoresheet being this close. And 2 points out of this game would have made everyhing easier afterwards.
But Wohlwend might hopes anyway to bring in the big results this year and then jump off to the NL. Next year could be a tough year for the U-20. the 98ers offer the worst forward group since the 90ers, and with the threat of Hischier being unavailable, he might want to circumvent this challenge.
BTW has somebody followed the results of the U-16. they are terrifyingly bad, like 25 years ago bad. Let's hope they find a way to progress with increasing international experience.
But Wohlwend might hopes anyway to bring in the big results this year and then jump off to the NL. Next year could be a tough year for the U-20. the 98ers offer the worst forward group since the 90ers, and with the threat of Hischier being unavailable, he might want to circumvent this challenge.
BTW has somebody followed the results of the U-16. they are terrifyingly bad, like 25 years ago bad. Let's hope they find a way to progress with increasing international experience.
Following Hinterland's comments, I just wondered how the players will continue to listen to Wohlwend. I assume there already had to be things around when the players didn't want to follow Wohlwends strategy for the game. And then he additionally calls them out in the public after the game, with harsh words...
Anyway, maybe it was a heat of the moment thing and no indicator for a deeper missunderstanding in the team. However, as much as it can be problematic I also like Wohlwend's temper. Something that has lacked in the politically correct Swiss hockey landscape. It's the reason why I can't really take Swiss Ski for full anymore. No one opens the mouth how it'd be necessary there. Cringeworthy.
Anyway, maybe it was a heat of the moment thing and no indicator for a deeper missunderstanding in the team. However, as much as it can be problematic I also like Wohlwend's temper. Something that has lacked in the politically correct Swiss hockey landscape. It's the reason why I can't really take Swiss Ski for full anymore. No one opens the mouth how it'd be necessary there. Cringeworthy.
- Status
