2017 HHOF Class Announced

[HawkNut]

When your peak and prime are **** then longevity means nothing.

It takes a lot to have the longevity Andreychuk did.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I'd be curious to know if Andreychuk ever placed on the THN Top 50 list, and/or what his positional placements were in the various yearbooks.

I can check later, but THN didn't do it as consistently as they do now. I believe they had a top-25 in Summer 1993, and top-50s in Summer 1994 and Summer 1996.

 

[Sky04]

I keep hearing "leadership" being thrown around very often these days to boost players' resumes.

Look, veteran players are suppose to be leaders and many of them are.

Was Andreychuk one of the leaders on that team? Well, I would hope so, he would be a lousy veteran if he wasn't. Is some sort of stitched letter on his jersey suppose to elevate his importance?

I'm sorry, but to me this is Canadian good ole boy bs.

How about the leadership of a guy like Gonchar on those Pens team? How about how MASSIVELY important his presence was to Malkin (or even the rest of that young team) during that period? Is that not leadership? Did it require a stitched letter?

What's funny is that he also never represented Canada on any best of best, why would they leave a guy who could score 640 goals off? There were 5 World Cups and 2 Olympics during his career and all he got selected for was the World Championships in 86'.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I keep hearing "leadership" being thrown around very often these days to boost players' resumes.

Look, veteran players are suppose to be leaders and many of them are.

Was Andreychuk one of the leaders on that team? Well, I would hope so, he would be a lousy veteran if he wasn't. Is some sort of stitched letter on his jersey suppose to elevate his importance?

I'm sorry, but to me this is Canadian good ole boy bs.

How about the leadership of a guy like Gonchar on those Pens team? How about how MASSIVELY important his presence was to Malkin (or even the rest of that young team) during that period? Is that not leadership? Did it require a stitched letter?

Agreed. People put way to much stock into a letter, and then continue to evaluate a players performance and character based on their "leadership skills."

People put way to much importance into him being captain for the 04 lightning. It didn't provide any sort of importance that, if he wasn't captain, would have changed the outcome. Every team has those leaders and veterans. You don't need a letter stitched on your jersey to have it.

It takes a lot to have the longevity Andreychouk did.

Of course, and we give him credit for that. But he did little to nothing significant for having such longevity.

 

[Kranix]

Former-Leaf lobby group gets Andreychuk into the Hall.

 

[arrbez]

Former-Leaf lobby group gets Andreychuk into the Hall.

That's how it always goes, just look at the worst picks from the last 20 years. Phil Housley played 16 total minutes in a Toronto Maple Leafs uniform, so it's no surprise he got in. Dino Ciccarelli is from Ontario, which is in Toronto, so that's why he got in. Mike Gartner is from Toronto AND played for Toronto, so he actually got in twice. I'm still looking for the Clark Gillies connection, but I'm sure it's there...

 

[HawkNut]

Agreed. People put way to much stock into a letter, and then continue to evaluate a players performance and character based on their "leadership skills."

People put way to much importance into him being captain for the 04 lightning. It didn't provide any sort of importance that, if he wasn't captain, would have changed the outcome. Every team has those leaders and veterans. You don't need a letter stitched on your jersey to have it.


Of course, and we give him credit for that. But he did little to nothing significant for having such longevity.

640 goals is not insignificant.

 

[trentmccleary]

That's how it always goes, just look at the worst picks from the last 20 years. Phil Housley played 16 total minutes in a Toronto Maple Leafs uniform, so it's no surprise he got in. Dino Ciccarelli is from Ontario, which is in Toronto, so that's why he got in. Mike Gartner is from Toronto AND played for Toronto, so he actually got in twice. I'm still looking for the Clark Gillies connection, but I'm sure it's there...

A deep desire to induct a tough 1980's winger named Clark?

 

[GreatGonzo]

640 goals is not insignificant.

Given the context, it most certainly is. Sure it's a nice "shiny" number, but longevity=/=elite.

He wasn't even really a top goal scorer, and when he was putting up 50+ goals, it was short lived. I'm not going to call his goal scoring in the later half of his career anything consistent or at any high level.

His first 6 full seasons in the league('84-'89) right before his numbers took a leap, he sits 28th in goals.....28th, then from '90-'94, he sits 4th overall in goals. That is really great, but let's once again look at context. He had 2 top 10 finishes in goals(4th and 9th) and 1 top 10 finish(9th) this was also in 1993 and 1994. Even at his peak, he still wasn't at the top of really any offensive statistic, and everything after 1994 for him was mediocre at best.

So what do we have? A 19 year career, where nearly half of it, he spent compiling numbers without any significance towards his play. He took full of advantage of playing in some of the highest scoring eras ever, but never separated himself as an elite individual, something almost every HOF should have done.

 

[arrbez]

A deep desire to induct a tough 1980's winger named Clark?

Well done sir, it was right in front of me all along

 

[HawkNut]

Given the context, it most certainly is. Sure it's a nice "shiny" number, but longevity=/=elite.

He wasn't even really a top goal scorer, and when he was putting up 50+ goals, it was short lived. I'm not going to call his goal scoring in the later half of his career anything consistent or at any high level.

His first 6 full seasons in the league('84-'89) right before his numbers took a leap, he sits 28th in goals.....28th, then from '90-'94, he sits 4th overall in goals. That is really great, but let's once again look at context. He had 2 top 10 finishes in goals(4th and 9th) and 1 top 10 finish(9th) this was also in 1993 and 1994. Even at his peak, he still wasn't at the top of really any offensive statistic, and everything after 1994 for him was mediocre at best.

So what do we have? A 19 year career, where nearly half of it, he spent compiling numbers without any significance towards his play. He took full of advantage of playing in some of the highest scoring eras ever, but never separated himself as an elite individual, something almost every HOF should have done.

In sports, compiling a number still means you have that number, regardless of the way it was attained. That really changes the way people look at a player. He earned this.

 

[GreatGonzo]

In sports, compiling a number still means you have that number, regardless of the way it was attained. That really changes the way people look at a player. He earned this.

Never said he didn't earn his numbers, just that they aren't HOF worthy. Longetivy is important, but while he did have a long career, he was not an impactful player for most of it.

And no, scoring 20 goals isn't that impactful or significant. That's just many attempting lowering the bar to justify his induction.

 

[HawkNut]

Never said he didn't earn his numbers, just that they aren't HOF worthy. Longetivy is important, but while he did have a long career, he was not an impactful player for most of it.

And no, scoring 20 goals isn't that impactful or significant. That's just many attempting lowering the bar to justify his induction.

In his later age, it showed he could still go. I'm talking about career numbers. He had the numbers to get in.

 

[GreatGonzo]

In his later age, it showed he could still go. I'm talking about career numbers. He had the numbers to get in.

I don't really see 30-40(barely) points year by year as anything to praise him for. Sure he has the numbers, but what makes him different....and not in a positive way, and what makes him a weak induction is...
-his peak
-his prime
-lack of hardware
-lack of elite level play
-consistency

Compared to his peers, he just isn't THAT good. Compared to The era he played in, his numbers Aren't that impressive. Sure he is 29th overall points but has one of the weakest PPG averages among players he is listed with.

Even his position(LW) was extremely weak during his days playing. I think it made him stand out more.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

I don't really see 30-40(barely) points year by year as anything to praise him for. Sure he has the numbers, but what makes him different....and not in a positive way, and what makes him a weak induction is...
-his peak
-his prime
-lack of hardware
-lack of elite level play
-consistency

Compared to his peers, he just isn't THAT good. Compared to The era he played in, his numbers Aren't that impressive. Sure he is 29th overall points but has one of the weakest PPG averages among players he is listed with.

Even his position(LW) was extremely weak during his days playing. I think it made him stand out more.

Some people only care about raw numbers, context doesn't matter for some reason.

 

[Weztex]

It takes a lot to have the longevity Andreychuk did.

Still, being a non-HOF caliber player for a long time shouldn't earn you the Hall of Fame.