2017-18 Around the League

[cgf]

I get that difference, but ROR is just overpaid in comparison to the league, especially when you take into account the adjustment the league has made (IE Turris' contract). Kesler has performed as well as ROR up until this season and Spezza is being wildly miscast this season, but prior was also performing better than ROR.

I'd rather ROR than Duchene at $7m... but I'd rather have Turris at $6m over both.

Turris is no less streaky than Duchene offensively while playing a much more perimeter game and not quite producing as much as Matt. And he’s not as good as ROR defensively, while being no better offensively. I’d say that Turris getting 6 while those two get 7+ is completely justified. Especially since Turris has had arguably the best puck moving blueliners behind him of any 1b C who some team has been forced to use as their #1 this decade, and he still hasn’t actually matched their production.

 

[Avs_19]

McDavid might run away with the scoring title at this rate.

 

[PAZ]

You really have nothing to base that on, but I'm not disagreeing at all there were prices that Poile was willing to go to. What we don't know is if Poile was willing to give up more for Duchene, or if Sakic was just willing to take less for Turris. I'm sure there were some differences because of contract situations, but I doubt they were extreme. Neither of us have anything to base this off of. Ottawa on the other hand, obviously valued Duchene at a much higher level... I'd argue they were off base too.

"It's no secret that we talked to Colorado for a long, long time about Duchene," Predators general manager David Poile said Monday. "You see what (the Senators) had to give up to get Duchene, so you can draw your own conclusions."

Team's don't have extended talks if they aren't going anywhere or if one side thinks the other is too off base.

"The point being is that to get Turris, to give up futures and to retain our top four defensemen I think is very significant," Poile said. "I think it's huge for what we can do this year and hopefully the next few years with the core of our team pretty well signed. I thought it was really, really important that we didn't give up one of our top four defensemen or our first-round pick, for that matter."

My understanding if this means that if Poile could've had Duchene for futures the deal would've done a long time ago. He states multiple times about not having to give up a top 4 defensemen. We don't have any clear answers, but IMO these responses give a pretty good idea.

 

[Cypher]

Sens have lost 6 straight and are now 2nd last in the NHL.....why, why did their 1st have to be top10 protected.

At worst, it'll be a top5 pick, so I don't think the Sens give it up this year.

 

[Balthazar]

McDavid might run away with the scoring title at this rate.

He will.

 

[Balthazar]

Sens have lost 6 straight and are now 2nd last in the NHL.....why, why did their 1st have to be top10 protected.

At worst, it'll be a top5 pick, so I don't think the Sens give it up this year.

We'd have never seen that pick as long as it was top 10 anyway. It was a non-story to begin with.

 

[Pokecheque]

Well, the fact that it might have even been considered is a story in and of itself, but there was virtually no chance of that happening.

 

[dahrougem2]

McDavid gonna hit 110 at this rate lol

 

[henchman21]

Team's don't have extended talks if they aren't going anywhere or if one side thinks the other is too off base.



My understanding if this means that if Poile could've had Duchene for futures the deal would've done a long time ago. He states multiple times about not having to give up a top 4 defensemen. We don't have any clear answers, but IMO these responses give a pretty good idea.

That just states that Poile wasn't willing to give up a top 4 D or 1st... which he didn't do for Turris either. We simply don't know how much more Poile would have paid for Duchene vs Turris. It could have been the exact same of Girard + Kamenev + 2nd, and that might have been why the deal never happened. That said, it was likely more... just how much is more of the question. From those quotes Poile wasn't going to give up any of his top 4 or his first in the deal... so likely a low end roster player or another prospect.

 

[henchman21]

Turris is no less streaky than Duchene offensively while playing a much more perimeter game and not quite producing as much as Matt. And he’s not as good as ROR defensively, while being no better offensively. I’d say that Turris getting 6 while those two get 7+ is completely justified. Especially since Turris has had arguably the best puck moving blueliners behind him of any 1b C who some team has been forced to use as their #1 this decade, and he still hasn’t actually matched their production.

I think Turris is a touch less streaky than Duchene (Duchene goes on 30 game PPG streaks then dies for 10-15 games where he will put up 5... Turris goes 6-7 stretches where he is invisible, but doesn't have the 30 ppg streaks). Turris isn't ROR defensively, but he is pretty damn solid there.

 

[dahrougem2]

Lmao the Oilers jumped out to a 3-0 lead on Columbus 10 minutes into the 1st period and ended up losing 7-3. My god.

 

[S E P H]

Lmao the Oilers jumped out to a 3-0 lead on Columbus 10 minutes into the 1st period and ended up losing 7-3. My god.

What does McD honestly have to do to actually win a game for his club? Contribute to seven points or something? I mean he's not alone because he has Draisaitl who's a pretty damn amazing player himself and having 68 points in 73 games with barely any powerplay points is extremely impressive. It's just hilarious how many first round picks they have and none of them (or the really high 2nds) have panned out. How none of their scouting team haven't been fired yet simply boggles my mind. For all the **** we give Arizona, they would have been able to build around McD much better than the freakin' Oilers have. Thankfully, Katz is as dumb as they come by so Oilers shouldn't be challenging for the Cup soon.

 

[ABasin]

I think Turris is a touch less streaky than Duchene (Duchene goes on 30 game PPG streaks then dies for 10-15 games where he will put up 5... Turris goes 6-7 stretches where he is invisible, but doesn't have the 30 ppg streaks). Turris isn't ROR defensively, but he is pretty damn solid there.

I'll take Turris as my 2C any day of the week. Good player.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Give me ROR at 7.5 over Turris at 6 any day of the week. I think ROR is the better player at both ends of the ice. And defensively I don't even think it's close.

 

[dahrougem2]

What does McD honestly have to do to actually win a game for his club? Contribute to seven points or something? I mean he's not alone because he has Draisaitl who's a pretty damn amazing player himself and having 68 points in 73 games with barely any powerplay points is extremely impressive. It's just hilarious how many first round picks they have and none of them (or the really high 2nds) have panned out. How none of their scouting team haven't been fired yet simply boggles my mind. For all the **** we give Arizona, they would have been able to build around McD much better than the freakin' Oilers have. Thankfully, Katz is as dumb as they come by so Oilers shouldn't be challenging for the Cup soon.

Yeah, the Oilers problems have long been running deeper than just coach/GM. These are their 2nd round picks since 2010:

Tyler Pitlick, Martin Marincin, Curtis Hamilton, David Musil, Mitch Moroz, Marc-Olivier Roy, and Tyler Benson. There's one single NHL player there, and he's a 4th liner playing for Dallas.

Hell, if we look at EVERY pick they've made outside of the 1st round since 2010, they have a grand total of six NHLers: Pitlick, Brandon Davidson, Tobias Reider, Jujhar Khaira, Erik Gustafsson, and Anton Slepyshev. Only two of those players are still on the Oilers today. 6/55 picks in the NHL, zero impact players outside of the 1st round.

 

[henchman21]

Yeah, the Oilers problems have long been running deeper than just coach/GM. These are their 2nd round picks since 2010:

Tyler Pitlick, Martin Marincin, Curtis Hamilton, David Musil, Mitch Moroz, Marc-Olivier Roy, and Tyler Benson. There's one single NHL player there, and he's a 4th liner playing for Dallas.

Hell, if we look at EVERY pick they've made outside of the 1st round since 2010, they have a grand total of six NHLers: Pitlick, Brandon Davidson, Tobias Reider, Jujhar Khaira, Erik Gustafsson, and Anton Slepyshev. Only two of those players are still on the Oilers today. 6/55 picks in the NHL, zero impact players outside of the 1st round.

Sadly the Avs have the same exact issue... actually probably even worse. Picks, Lindholm and Butcher are who the Avs are hanging their hat on... and the worst of the 3 is the only one in the Avs organization.

 

[cgf]

Sadly the Avs have the same exact issue... actually probably even worse. Picks, Lindholm and Butcher are who the Avs are hanging their hat on... and the worst of the 3 is the only one in the Avs organization.

Barrie?

 

[ABasin]

Barrie?

Barrie was 2009. I think they referenced 2010 and later.

Sadly the Avs have the same exact issue... actually probably even worse. Picks, Lindholm and Butcher are who the Avs are hanging their hat on... and the worst of the 3 is the only one in the Avs organization.

It's been brutal. A number of picks in the 30s and low 40s overall as well.

 

[PAZ]

Yeah, the Oilers problems have long been running deeper than just coach/GM. These are their 2nd round picks since 2010:

Tyler Pitlick, Martin Marincin, Curtis Hamilton, David Musil, Mitch Moroz, Marc-Olivier Roy, and Tyler Benson. There's one single NHL player there, and he's a 4th liner playing for Dallas.

Hell, if we look at EVERY pick they've made outside of the 1st round since 2010, they have a grand total of six NHLers: Pitlick, Brandon Davidson, Tobias Reider, Jujhar Khaira, Erik Gustafsson, and Anton Slepyshev. Only two of those players are still on the Oilers today. 6/55 picks in the NHL, zero impact players outside of the 1st round.

I mean the Avs are just as bad outside the 1st round. Since 2010 (45 picks outside the 1st round): Michael Bournival, Joseph Blandisi, Will Butcher, Chris Bigras, Anton Lindholm, A.J. Greer.

The only potential impact player we have is Timmins, with an outside chance Greer or Shvyrev becomes one.

 

[agentblack]

I have to admit i was like 65% impressed, 35% meh on McDavid but now im ...

73% impressed

 

[S E P H]

Sadly the Avs have the same exact issue... actually probably even worse. Picks, Lindholm and Butcher are who the Avs are hanging their hat on... and the worst of the 3 is the only one in the Avs organization.

I don't disagree, but Oilers have never once draft a Ryan O'Reilly type of player beyond the first round. The Oilers have never once drafted a Tyson Barrie type of player beyond the first round. Hell, they haven't even been able to draft a Mikko Rantanen player past the top 5, the closest one is Jordan Eberle who they decided to trade away. The only players as Dahrougem mentioned above which were solid selections were Pitlick (not with organization), Davidson (not with organization), Rieder (not with organization), and Gustafsson (not with organization). Only two players who are looking like solid picks that are still WITH the Oilers is Khaira and Klefbom.

That doesn't mean they don't have solid prospects, they do such as Jones, Bear, Benson, Berglund, Yamamoto, Skinner, Safin, and Maximov. However, Avs can pretty much everything they have except for Skinner. This doesn't mean that Avs scouting has been perfect neither, in actuality it has sucked as you mentioned, but I argue here that Oilers are on another level. Avs have never had the amount of picks that the Loliers had, in which they missed on majority of them...

 

[dahrougem2]

Sadly the Avs have the same exact issue... actually probably even worse. Picks, Lindholm and Butcher are who the Avs are hanging their hat on... and the worst of the 3 is the only one in the Avs organization.

No doubt, but the point being Oilers fans still wonder why their team is going through this disaster season. It goes a lot deeper for them than just GM/coach.

 

[S E P H]

No doubt, but the point being Oilers fans still wonder why their team is going through this disaster season. It goes a lot deeper for them than just GM/coach.

I honestly believe it starts with Katz, then him employing Pejorative Slurs for top executive hockey positions not realising that majority of their scouting team should be gone.

 

[dahrougem2]

I honestly believe it starts with Katz, then him employing ******s for top executive hockey positions not realising that majority of their scouting team should be gone.

Yeah, but Katz doesn't give a **** about the actual success of the team so long as he makes his money.

 

[henchman21]

Barrie?

2010-on was that part of the discussion. The Avs struck gold in 2009... beyond that, it gets pretty rough with what they have been able to accomplish since 2004. 07 had Galiardi and 06 had Stastny. That is really about it.

I don't disagree, but Oilers have never once draft a Ryan O'Reilly type of player beyond the first round. The Oilers have never once drafted a Tyson Barrie type of player beyond the first round. Hell, they haven't even been able to draft a Mikko Rantanen player past the top 5, the closest one is Jordan Eberle who they decided to trade away. The only players as Dahrougem mentioned above which were solid selections were Pitlick (not with organization), Davidson (not with organization), Rieder (not with organization), and Gustafsson (not with organization). Only two players who are looking like solid picks that are still WITH the Oilers is Khaira and Klefbom.

That doesn't mean they don't have solid prospects, they do such as Jones, Bear, Benson, Berglund, Yamamoto, Skinner, Safin, and Maximov. However, Avs can pretty much everything they have except for Skinner. This doesn't mean that Avs scouting has been perfect neither, in actuality it has sucked as you mentioned, but I argue here that Oilers are on another level. Avs have never had the amount of picks that the Loliers had, in which they missed on majority of them...

By no means am I saying the Oilers are great at producing later picks... they aren't. Outside of 2009 (which seems to be a fluke as much as anything), the Avs have flat out sucked at it since 04. A few hits and some of them great (ROR, Stastny and Barrie)... but no real quality either. Outside the top 10, the Avs haven't produced passable NHLers on a consistent basis. The Oilers have at least produced some NHLers and at a higher rate than the Avs. They haven't had the ROR or Barrie hits, but the Oilers have the Eberle and Klefbom late 1st that the Avs can't hit on. 6 of one, half dozen of another. I think you could argue either one as better or worse and it really doesn't matter because both suck.