World Cup: 2016 World Cup — Team Canada
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CanadianSniper
Registered User
Ekblad and McDavid will be in way over their heads and ability!!! It isn't the world junior championships. Did you see how effective Landeskog was on the score sheet for Team Sweden. There is a lot to say about an NHL hockey player when he is 25 to 30 years old. Nurse didn't even make this years world juniors!
Hall - Crosby - Stamkos
Seguin - Toews - Tavares
Giroux - Duchene - MacKinnon
Benn - Bergeron - Perry
*Nash, Nugent-Hopkins, Getzlaf
Defence shall remain about the same, most of them are still very young. Top-3 of Doughty, Subban, Pietrangelo.
Price in nets.
Seguin - Toews - Tavares
Giroux - Duchene - MacKinnon
Benn - Bergeron - Perry
*Nash, Nugent-Hopkins, Getzlaf
Defence shall remain about the same, most of them are still very young. Top-3 of Doughty, Subban, Pietrangelo.
Price in nets.
MildlyAwesome
Rational Leaf Fan
I want you to think aback to 2010. And I would find it hilarious of Toews was the extra forward.
This isn't NHL 14 where prospects reign supreme. Subban, Reinhart, Nurse, Drouin haven't even cracked the NHL. McDavid not even drafted. Same with Ekblad. And they'll be ready in 4 years?
If there is a World Cup, I feel very comfortable saying it will likely be Canada-USA in the finals with Canada having the advantage. It will be on the small ice and I don't see any other teams being better than the North American teams.
If there is a 2018, we will be in a much better position than we were in 2014. Time will have taken its toll on all our strongest competition...
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If the U.S. was going to win Gold, 2014 was it. In 2018, the U.S. will be both older and weaker up front:
- Parise has already lost a step.
- Kesler's body won't hold up another 4 years at his current level of play.
- Kessel won't be better at 30 than he was this year. Neither will Kane.
A lot of their forwards will be in their 30's and if they couldn't manage an even strength goal against the better teams when their were healthy and in their prime, I can't imagine things being better in Korea. The young American forwards (2008 draft and beyond) are good but not great and not at the same level as the 2014 group.
The U.S.'s D will be stronger with Trouba and Jones. Their goaltending will be very strong - as usual.
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The Russians best players will be:
OV - 32
Malkin - 31
Kovalchuk - 34
Datsyuk - 39
and that's their strength. Nothing to see here.
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Sweden best players looked old (and hurt) in 2014. In 2018 they will be ancient. Sweden does have some strong players coming up and their D is always impressive. I see Sweden being our strongest competition in Korea.
Others could probably provide a better perspective on Finland.
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Only Canada has a high quality group of young players coming up in the forward position. Our D looks a little old but defensemen age more gracefully than forwards and we will hopefully have players to replace the ones that are put out to pasture.
We are looking good and if there is a 2016 WC and 2018 Olympics, Canada winning both is a strong possibility.
If there is a 2018, we will be in a much better position than we were in 2014. Time will have taken its toll on all our strongest competition...
**
If the U.S. was going to win Gold, 2014 was it. In 2018, the U.S. will be both older and weaker up front:
- Parise has already lost a step.
- Kesler's body won't hold up another 4 years at his current level of play.
- Kessel won't be better at 30 than he was this year. Neither will Kane.
A lot of their forwards will be in their 30's and if they couldn't manage an even strength goal against the better teams when their were healthy and in their prime, I can't imagine things being better in Korea. The young American forwards (2008 draft and beyond) are good but not great and not at the same level as the 2014 group.
The U.S.'s D will be stronger with Trouba and Jones. Their goaltending will be very strong - as usual.
**
The Russians best players will be:
OV - 32
Malkin - 31
Kovalchuk - 34
Datsyuk - 39
and that's their strength. Nothing to see here.
**
Sweden best players looked old (and hurt) in 2014. In 2018 they will be ancient. Sweden does have some strong players coming up and their D is always impressive. I see Sweden being our strongest competition in Korea.
Others could probably provide a better perspective on Finland.
**
Only Canada has a high quality group of young players coming up in the forward position. Our D looks a little old but defensemen age more gracefully than forwards and we will hopefully have players to replace the ones that are put out to pasture.
We are looking good and if there is a 2016 WC and 2018 Olympics, Canada winning both is a strong possibility.
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Canada is going to tear **** up. We have more top players now than we had in the late 90s and early 2000s. Every other country is falling into a generation gap (Except for Sweden's defense and Finland's goaltending because they are pretty amazing) while Canada's under 25 talent is startling. I think Canada will be relatively stronger in 2018 than ever before in the NHL Olympic era.
Sonic Disturbance
Grandmaster User
- Jan 1, 2009
- 2,315
- 140
So Toews gets put as the 14th forward in favour of Seguin and RNH?
Also, someone's an Oilers fan here, Schultz, Nurse, Eberle, RNH, Hall and Ekblad/Reinhart?
Sonic Disturbance
Grandmaster User
- Jan 1, 2009
- 2,315
- 140
Here's my team:
Tavares - Crosby - Stamkos
Hall - McDavid - Mackinnon
Benn - Getzlaf - Giroux
O'Reilly - Toews - Bergeron
Seguin, Duchene
Keith - Weber
Vlasic - Doughty
Murray - Pietrangelo
Rielly - Subban
Price
Bernier
Holtby
Tavares - Crosby - Stamkos
Hall - McDavid - Mackinnon
Benn - Getzlaf - Giroux
O'Reilly - Toews - Bergeron
Seguin, Duchene
Keith - Weber
Vlasic - Doughty
Murray - Pietrangelo
Rielly - Subban
Price
Bernier
Holtby
NHL Dude 120
Registered User
For 2016 WC
Forwards
Hall-Crosby-Tavaras
*Drouin-Stamkos-St.Louis (if hes still around if not sub St.Louis for MacKinnon)
Perry-Toews-Getzlaf
ROR-Bergeron-Benn
extras: , RNH,Duchene,Monahan(I would love for him to be paired with Toews) Tyler Seguin and maybe Evander kane
Defense: (im matching left and right handed D, dear god the right side is crazy)
Doughty- Duncan Keith
Weber- Ryan Murray
Pietrangelo- Morgan Reily
Extras: PK Subban, Dougie Hamilton, Dion Phaneuf,Karl Alzner
Goalie
Price
Crawford
Luongo
extras: Holtby,Ward, Fluery, Smith
* For those bashing why Stamkos isn't on the top line i wanted to spread out the scoring and I'm also factoring chemistry as well. for McDavid its a bit too early id rather put him on 2018 Olympic team.
As for Morgan Reilly i wanted some new blood on the team (also its hard finding a left handed D).
Lastly what on earth gives the NHL the right to control an international sanctioned hockey tournament? I believe that international Hockey competition should fall under the jurisdiction of the IIHF. No world championships should be held in the same year as either Tournament (Olympics and World cup).
Forwards
Hall-Crosby-Tavaras
*Drouin-Stamkos-St.Louis (if hes still around if not sub St.Louis for MacKinnon)
Perry-Toews-Getzlaf
ROR-Bergeron-Benn
extras: , RNH,Duchene,Monahan(I would love for him to be paired with Toews) Tyler Seguin and maybe Evander kane
Defense: (im matching left and right handed D, dear god the right side is crazy)
Doughty- Duncan Keith
Weber- Ryan Murray
Pietrangelo- Morgan Reily
Extras: PK Subban, Dougie Hamilton, Dion Phaneuf,Karl Alzner
Goalie
Price
Crawford
Luongo
extras: Holtby,Ward, Fluery, Smith
* For those bashing why Stamkos isn't on the top line i wanted to spread out the scoring and I'm also factoring chemistry as well. for McDavid its a bit too early id rather put him on 2018 Olympic team.
As for Morgan Reilly i wanted some new blood on the team (also its hard finding a left handed D).
Lastly what on earth gives the NHL the right to control an international sanctioned hockey tournament? I believe that international Hockey competition should fall under the jurisdiction of the IIHF. No world championships should be held in the same year as either Tournament (Olympics and World cup).
I hope you are right, my good man. I hope you are right. However, I am discouraged by our poor world junior teams in recent years. They have been regressing since 2009. This year's team was possibly the worst Canada has sent to the world juniors since the pre-POE (Program of Excellence) days. I think the talent pipeline is running dry and that's on Hockey Canada for not making the game more accessible and on minor hockey associations for driving up costs so that parents feel as though they have to have their kids playing 100 games in a season instead of getting in 100 practices to build on the foundational skills.
Our hockey development system is exceptionally wasteful. If we hot-housed like the Americans and followed the player development template the Swedes and even Finns use, we'd be 2X as good and the Euros would really have something to cry about.
Anyway, I do worry about the future. Remember, the 1985s are all going to be in their early 30s by 2018; I think this last Olympiad witnessed the best they will ever play for Canada at an Olympic event. After they're gone from the scene, I do not like what I'm seeing from those players born in the 1990s (with a few obvious examples, certainly).
McDavid - Crosby - Stamkos
Tavares - Toews - MacKinnon
Hall - Getzlaf - Perry
Couture - Johansen - Bergeron
Duchene
Keith - Weber
Murray - Doughty
Bouwmeester - Pietrangelo
Vlasic
Price
Ward (yes he will bounce-back)
Bernier
Tavares - Toews - MacKinnon
Hall - Getzlaf - Perry
Couture - Johansen - Bergeron
Duchene
Keith - Weber
Murray - Doughty
Bouwmeester - Pietrangelo
Vlasic
Price
Ward (yes he will bounce-back)
Bernier
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Actually, you are right, buddy. There is concern on our end. While the well has not been as dry (for Canada) as it has for other countries, the last 5 years have not been great. My feeling... it is just ebb and flow. We had such an amazing half decade, we forgot that there can be lean times.
As far as the WJR's, I would love to take a page from the U.S. and hothouse our best players. We discussed it here. We just couldn't come up with a solution that didn't hurt the CHL.
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Yeah, the CHL is definitely a concern since these are businesses in the business of making money. Having top talent hot-housed is not going to help the bottom line. Still, there has to be a way. The US has its USHL and still hot-houses and gets its U18 team playing against USHL and college squads. Why can't Canada do the same? People shell out money to watch Jr. B hockey; they'll shell out cash for the CHL, even if some elite talent is missing because we're developing a true national side. I wish the CHL would realize that it is in its own best interests for Canada to succeed internationally. When Canada wins at any level, it burnishes the rep of the CHL. When Canada falls flat like it did at the World Juniors (a thoroughly mediocre team), it hurts the CHL's standing and gives red meat to the USHL and to the NCAA.
I don't want to see the day when the likes of Dumba are on the blue line instead of Shea Weber. But I can see that day coming unless there are some big changes made in the developmental system.
Thank goodness the Russians are sputtering somewhat (though their junior teams have been better than ours in recent years), but the Americans and Swedes have really upped their game and Canada seems to be falling behind as far as producing top-shelf talent.
Time for an enema at Hockey Canada and for a real reorganization of how hockey is done in this country. 5 years of sub-par results at all levels (save for the Olympics) is a trend, not an anomaly. That's my take, anyways, Kevy D.
I can live with everything you wrote - minus what is highlighted in Red.
The U.S. well has been quite dry for the last 6 years. It will be seven after the 2014 draft - which is not great. Yes, they have produced Jones and Trouba, however, on the offensive end, the result are a step (or two or three) down from what they produced from 2003 to 2007.
We do need some top end defensive talent.
An idea...
Set up a Canadian hot house program for players who are talented but on the small side or players that would likely be overlooked by the CHL.
Or...
A study has been done that shows that the best Canadian players are based on their birth date. Players born at the end of the cycle are overlooked because they are younger and smaller.
Why not create a program for those players? Give them a chance to play and excel with players their own age and size.
Set up a Canadian hot house program for players who are talented but on the small side or players that would likely be overlooked by the CHL.
Or...
A study has been done that shows that the best Canadian players are based on their birth date. Players born at the end of the cycle are overlooked because they are younger and smaller.
Why not create a program for those players? Give them a chance to play and excel with players their own age and size.
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The US had a powerhouse team at this year's World Under-17 Hockey Challenge. Lots of offensive firepower that overwhelmed teams. That's a going concern. They've always been fast, but they are also developing players who are now fast and skilled and creative. Look, hockey is very competitive internationally now. Hockey Canada requires creative and tough-minded and skilled leadership. In short, being Hockey Canada president can't be a political appointment anymore because it's not a care-taker position any longer; it demands something more.
I see what we're doing at the world juniors and it bothers me. 2010 and 2011 were sad defeats (one was a choke job) but we were partly done in by bad goaltending (well, every year we have mediocre to bad goaltending). But the last 3 Canadian teams at the WJHCs simply weren't good enough to win. In 2012, they were outclassed by the Russians until the Russians stopped skating (just my take). In 2013, the American swarmed them and they appeared intimidated right from puck drop. This year, they simply looked inept: not overly big, fast, skilled or relentless. Not smart, either. A thoroughly mediocre, forgettable team. What I am seeing at the world juniors, coupled with declining enrollment in minor hockey, worries me. I am a pessimist by nature, admittedly, but I don't think we have smart enough leadership to confront these trends.
I hope I am dead wrong and that you, KevyD, can come back and tell me that you told me so. But the trends are there and pretty unmistakeable.
Forget about the Olympics: that's the present. Look at the future - and the world jrs. gave us a glimpse at a future that's not reassuring.
Not kidding at all. We should be judging ourselves by gold medals won. We're not winning many at the junior level.
Haven't for a while.
I don't expect to win all the time (that's ludicrous and a slap in the face to other serious hockey nations), but our track record since Vancouver has been poor. Nicholson and his flunkies are better at taking free trips and making excuses than exploring why that is.
All of what you wrote is fine but I believe it has to do with ebb and flow. Remember, there was a period between 1999 and 2002 where we were not good, draft wise, and we were in the middle of our 7 year WJR drought. After that, we cranked off the "golden age" of Canadian players - almost a decade of amazing kids.
Unlike you and others, I trust Hockey Canada to grow and keep our program relevant. Hopefully, I will be right.
As for the U.S., I heard the same thing 20 years ago after they beat us at the World Cup - in 1996. That the Americans would soon dominate hockey. In fact, Damian Cox wrote a series on it, in the mid 90's, for the Toronto Star.
20 years later, I have seen ebb and flow - not much else. They had 5 great years from 2003 - 2007 (draft) and then 6 weak drafts from 2008 to 2013. They are due for a turn up which is what you saw at the U-17's.
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I think you are being too hard on our program. The 2003 - 2009 drafts were an amazing period of time for Canadian hockey. We are due for a step back.
As for the WJR's...
As someone wrote, Canada (the CHL) is producing players that will be great in the NHL but not necessarily great as a team. That is where a hot-house program would help.
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