Line Combos: 2016-2017 Detroit Red Wings
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Hammettf2b
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You say Helm is better "period"; why? It looks like they have similar numbers, and offer similar things to the team. I think the biggest argument being made is that Sheahan is cheaper, but you seem to be suggesting that Helm is significantly better, but I don't think you've explained why you think so. I should add that for all I hate Helm's contract, it's an honest question. I can't think of anything I like more about Helm's game, but I'm always up for learning something or hearing an alternate opinion.
Hammettf2b
oldmanyellsatcloud.jpg
I simply think he brings more to the table, draws penalties, brings a speed factor, great PKer. Yes, hes not a scoring threat, but lets be honest, neither has Sheahan been either. His contract has nothing to do with how I feel that Helm is the better player between the 2. I think we will see a better version of Helm this year now that he is back to playing the 3rd line center. I think Helm contributes more to the team when hes not scoring than I do Sheahan. Just my 2 cents. I'm not saying everyone has to agree with me, its just how I feel.
Vladdy84
L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Hammettf2b
oldmanyellsatcloud.jpg
I wouldn't mind it. Doubt it "sweetens" anything though. Also, don't see Kenny trading Helm after giving him that contract.
Yeah, I'm hoping moving Sheahan to the wing helps with his scoring. I think he still has the ability to score more, where I think Helm is what he is, in that regard. I also wish Sheahan played a bit heavier, but I think that's just my standard complaint about all of our bigger players: most of them play much smaller than they should (looking at you, E). And all that said, I loved Helm, stone hands and all, when he was a scrappy 4th line guy. I just don't think he adds a lot to the other lines (Babcock's opinion is interesting, but I think, ever so humbly, incorrect). All the forechecking in the world doesn't help much when the passing and actual checking aren't there.
Henkka
Registered User
Don't worry about these things who could we lose. We won't lose anybody. No one of the guys is going on waivers and all waiver-exempt are going down. That's best possible asset managemenet.
Both Helm and Sheahan are above average 3rd liners who can occasionally contribute higher up the line-up, and if all the kids pan out could be 2 of the leagues best 4th line. The problem is that only one of them is currently paid like a 3rd liner.
Helm's speed, ability to draw penalties, decent PK work and ability to be a pressure valve are really useful and on a contending team with some ELC contributors would be well worth his salary. Sheahan has a lot less jump but a lot more subtlety and when he's on his game can look like a future 2nd line guy, because his passing and shot are both very dangerous, but under-utilised.
Of course, if we could splice their DNA to take the best of each and the worst of each, you'd have one bona fida 1st liner and one borderline ECHL-er...
Helm's speed, ability to draw penalties, decent PK work and ability to be a pressure valve are really useful and on a contending team with some ELC contributors would be well worth his salary. Sheahan has a lot less jump but a lot more subtlety and when he's on his game can look like a future 2nd line guy, because his passing and shot are both very dangerous, but under-utilised.
Of course, if we could splice their DNA to take the best of each and the worst of each, you'd have one bona fida 1st liner and one borderline ECHL-er...
WingedWheel1987
Registered User
Helm is absolute garbage thanks to his new cap hit.
One of many negative value players on this roster.
Paying close to four million a season for a maybe 30 point player on a good day is absolutely laughable.
He would need Toews level of intangibles to makeup for putting up crap stats.
One of many negative value players on this roster.
Paying close to four million a season for a maybe 30 point player on a good day is absolutely laughable.
He would need Toews level of intangibles to makeup for putting up crap stats.
Hammettf2b
oldmanyellsatcloud.jpg
WingedWheel1987
Registered User
Well realistically, Helm would be a fantastic 4th line player at $2M because he has the ability to score a little and is pretty damn good defensively. Unfortunately, a defensive 3rd line is not really what we need. We need more scoring.
Blues fans seem VERY receptive to Nyquist/Tatar+Mantha+1st/2nd depending on if he has a contract extension ready for Shattenkirk. What do you guys think?? They labeled it a true win win.
Edit-Money wise it should be pretty close to even too.
Z-Neilson-Tatar/Nyquist
Abby-Larkin-Vanek
AA-Helm-Sheahan
Ott-Glenny-Bertuzzi
Frk/Miller
DDK-Shatty
Green-Smith
Kronwall-EricSuck
Easily the best lineup we've had in a while if you ask me...
Edit-Money wise it should be pretty close to even too.
Z-Neilson-Tatar/Nyquist
Abby-Larkin-Vanek
AA-Helm-Sheahan
Ott-Glenny-Bertuzzi
Frk/Miller
DDK-Shatty
Green-Smith
Kronwall-EricSuck
Easily the best lineup we've had in a while if you ask me...
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Well of course they would be. They are likely going to lose the UFA Shattenkirk for more money elsewhere. So they are getting a significant return on a player they cant afford to keep and realistically, surely the Red Wings only do this if they can get Shattenkirk to agree to a long term deal before hand.
Personally, I'd throw up Nyquist + 1st and hope thats enough. I'd rather not lose Tatar.
Personally, I'd throw up Nyquist + 1st and hope thats enough. I'd rather not lose Tatar.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
- 36,692
- 15,462
That seems like a lot to give up for a guy that is less than 9 months away from being an UFA.
Henkka
Registered User
That was assuming he'd be extended for that trade, depending on the terms the 1st/2nd rounder
We'll say its 8 years then
We'll say its 8 years then
Vatican Roulette
Baile de Los Locos
Next year we could use a buyout on Ericsson or LTIR, Howard to Vegas. Promoting some kids. Vanek, Ott, Miller off the books. We should have enough cap.
Henkka
Registered User
We will buyout Howard and Ericsson could possible go LTIR if his situation will get worse.
Either won't go to Vegas, there are better players to be claimed than just cap junk.
What goalies will be available for free that are better than Howard next offseason? Howard will only be signed for two more years. Remember, Vegas has to spend to a certain cap amount so they'll need to pick up players that have larger contracts.
Henkka
Registered User
Vegas will pickup better players with enough caphits. There has been many estimations that they will hit the capfloor pretty easily, without picking crap contracts.
At season 2017-18, we need a roster spot for Coreau, and it's more than smart to add a 6'5 monster goalie to give another look match-up option for Mrazek.
Mrazek + Coreau + Howard's buyout caphit will be cheaper package than Mrazek+Howard. And would be very stupid to lose cost-controlled Coreau to somewhere else for free.
Griffins had the best season SV% at last season in AHL, mostly thanks to Coreau. Imo, he was the TOP4 goalie there with Matt Murray, Connor Hellebuyck and Petr Budaj.
What better goalies will be FA next season or available through the expansion draft?
You're also way overrating Coreau.
My money is on Varlamov (or they take Pickard if Colorado foolishly leaves him exposded) and Ottawa needs to pick one of Hammond or Anderson.
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