Line Combos: 2016-2017 Detroit Red Wings

[Z40]

We can waive Pulks and Jurco for all I care. Pulkkinen is not an NHL'er and Jurco has no place on the team. He may be able to cut out a career as a bottom-6 player on another team.

 

[njx9]

Jurco is a perfect guy, at this point, to timeshare the press box with Miller, Ott and/or Frk. Waiving him doesn't make sense, as long as there are waiver eligible players who can go back to GR and actually play.

 

[Flowah]

Larkin can coast in the preseason. He's proven himself, there's 0% chance he starts on the Griffins.

I truly believe Larkin was given a pass by management because of hype, draft position, and wanting him to be around Datsyuk as much as possible before he retired. He wasn't particularly impressive last preseason either from what I remember. Good player, NHL caliber, but I was more impressed by Bert this preseason and AA last preseason. Yet we all know both those players will start in GR.

 

[Yzerman1919*]

My DREAM lineup this year.

Z-Nielson-Tatar/Nyquist
Vanek-Larkin-Abby
AA-Shehan-Mantha
Ott-Glendening-Bertuzzi
Frk

DDK-Green
New d-man-Smith
Kronwall-Marchenko
Sproul/Jensen

That Helm deal screwed us. We'd be younger and that third line could score plenty. Sheahan is easily one of if not the best passers on the team IMO. He could be springing AA or feeding Mantha to shoot. The fourth line ACTUALLY has some skill, clearly Ott has been undervalued a ton by everyone here, Bertuzzi can play, and my god what a pain in the ass they would be to play against. Waive Pulk, Frk is better than him. Trade for a d-man is where Nyquist/Tatar goes.

 

[Frk It]

That third line is really bleh. Of course Helm is the reason why it looks so useless.

Not really putting Vanek in a position to succeed.

I found it pretty ironic/funny that Holland said this...



the same day that Khan said Vanek is going to play with Helm... kind of contradictory, lol

 

[Heaton]

I found it pretty ironic/funny that Holland said this...



the same day that Khan said Vanek is going to play with Helm... kind of contradictory, lol

Holland must expect our PP to be #1 in the league this year.

 

[Hammettf2b]

I truly believe Larkin was given a pass by management because of hype, draft position, and wanting him to be around Datsyuk as much as possible before he retired. He wasn't particularly impressive last preseason either from what I remember. Good player, NHL caliber, but I was more impressed by Bert this preseason and AA last preseason. Yet we all know both those players will start in GR.

Larkin was on the team in the beginning because of the injury to Datsyuk.

 

[Frk It]

Holland must expect our PP to be #1 in the league this year.

I guess 3rd line with Helm is just a starting spot for Vanek. I have to assume if he is scoring goals he is going to move up the lineup. Otherwise yeah, 3rd line minutes and playing with Darren Helm isn't going to get you 20+ goals and his numbers from 3 years ago.

I liked this quote from Blash, though:

“We don’t score easy,†Blashill said. “He scores easy — by that I mean, he gets one shot, he can score. We’ve got some guys that are volume scorers — they need 10 opportunities to score

This is why the Vanek signing was my favorite from this off-season. Good fit, and low risk/high reward.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/10/06/helm-excited-vanek-line/91649334/

 

[Wood Stick]

I guess 3rd line with Helm is just a starting spot for Vanek. I have to assume if he is scoring goals he is going to move up the lineup. Otherwise yeah, 3rd line minutes and playing with Darren Helm isn't going to get you 20+ goals and his numbers from 3 years ago.

I liked this quote from Blash, though:



This is why the Vanek signing was my favorite from this off-season. Good fit, and low risk/high reward.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/10/06/helm-excited-vanek-line/91649334/

I think there's a high possibility he moves down to the fourth line for stretches tbh

 

[Hammettf2b]

My DREAM lineup this year.

Z-Nielson-Tatar/Nyquist
Vanek-Larkin-Abby
AA-Shehan-Mantha
Ott-Glendening-Bertuzzi
Frk

DDK-Green
New d-man-Smith
Kronwall-Marchenko
Sproul/Jensen

That Helm deal screwed us. We'd be younger and that third line could score plenty. Sheahan is easily one of if not the best passers on the team IMO. He could be springing AA or feeding Mantha to shoot. The fourth line ACTUALLY has some skill, clearly Ott has been undervalued a ton by everyone here, Bertuzzi can play, and my god what a pain in the ass they would be to play against. Waive Pulk, Frk is better than him. Trade for a d-man is where Nyquist/Tatar goes.

I don't get all the love for Sheahan honestly. Especially when compared to Helm. Money aside, Helm is BY FAR a more impactful player than Sheahan is.

 

[Wood Stick]

I don't get all the love for Sheahan honestly. Especially when compared to Helm. Money aside, Helm is BY FAR a more impactful player than Sheahan is.

I completely disagree. Someone disagreed with me earlier, but I actually think Sheahan is better defensively and works with skill better. He also worked on that top shutdown line with Abby and Glenny in the playoffs. Helm was busy slowing down Dats.

Sheahan is also better offensively, and his shot is much superior. I think he has another level. Helm is a third line guy who I think slows down our third line. His playmaking skills suck. I'd rather we not re-sign him at all..

Z-Frans-Gus
Tatar-Larkin-Abby
Vanek-Sheahan-Vanek
Miller-Glenny-Frk
Ott, Pulks

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I don't get all the love for Sheahan honestly. Especially when compared to Helm. Money aside, Helm is BY FAR a more impactful player than Sheahan is.

By far? How so?

Their time on ice per game is basically the same. Helm only played 30 seconds more ES ice time per game. Sheahan played more on the PK, more on the PP. He took 782 faceoffs to Helm's 77 (which is a big deal now with Datsyuk gone). He played 4 more games but Sheahan put up 25 points to Helm's 26.

Where is Helm's great impact over Sheahan? Especially considering Sheahan's cap hit is almost $2 million less.

When you have a younger, cheaper, nearly equivalent replacement on your roster, there's little reason to give that contract to Helm.

 

[TheMule93]

My DREAM lineup this year.

Z-Nielson-Tatar/Nyquist
Vanek-Larkin-Abby
AA-Shehan-Mantha
Ott-Glendening-Bertuzzi
Frk

DDK-Green
New d-man-Smith
Kronwall-Marchenko
Sproul/Jensen

That Helm deal screwed us. We'd be younger and that third line could score plenty. Sheahan is easily one of if not the best passers on the team IMO. He could be springing AA or feeding Mantha to shoot. The fourth line ACTUALLY has some skill, clearly Ott has been undervalued a ton by everyone here, Bertuzzi can play, and my god what a pain in the ass they would be to play against. Waive Pulk, Frk is better than him. Trade for a d-man is where Nyquist/Tatar goes.

Yeah, I pretty much 100% agree with your lineup.

 

[Leaf_Crazy]

is Frk going to make the team?

I find it hard to believe they expose him to waivers. Kid has a rocket.

 

[TheMule93]

is Frk going to make the team?

I find it hard to believe they expose him to waivers. Kid has a rocket.

Probably. My guess is they put Pulkkinen on waivers. He is the same player as Frk, but worse in every way. Pulkkinen never really did much to show he deserve a roster spot last season or this preseason.

 

[Wood Stick]

Probably. My guess is they put Pulkkinen on waivers. He is the same player as Frk, but worse in every way. Pulkkinen never really did much to show he deserve a roster spot last season or this preseason.

He just got medically cleared. RelaX.

 

[Hammettf2b]

I completely disagree. Someone disagreed with me earlier, but I actually think Sheahan is better defensively and works with skill better. He also worked on that top shutdown line with Abby and Glenny in the playoffs. Helm was busy slowing down Dats.

Sheahan is also better offensively, and his shot is much superior. I think he has another level. Helm is a third line guy who I think slows down our third line. His playmaking skills suck. I'd rather we not re-sign him at all..

Z-Frans-Gus
Tatar-Larkin-Abby
Vanek-Sheahan-Vanek
Miller-Glenny-Frk
Ott, Pulks

By far? How so?

Their time on ice per game is basically the same. Helm only played 30 seconds more ES ice time per game. Sheahan played more on the PK, more on the PP. He took 782 faceoffs to Helm's 77 (which is a big deal now with Datsyuk gone). He played 4 more games but Sheahan put up 25 points to Helm's 26.

Where is Helm's great impact over Sheahan? Especially considering Sheahan's cap hit is almost $2 million less.

When you have a younger, cheaper, nearly equivalent replacement on your roster, there's little reason to give that contract to Helm.

First off, Helm slowing down Dats is not Helm's fault. Its the coaches. Second, Helm hasn't played center in quite a while so thats why Sheahan took more draws. It looks as though he is being moved back to center while Sheahan is being moved to the wing. If Sheahan was so good as a center, you'd think this change wouldn't have happened. There is a reason why Babs labeled Helm as the best 3rd line center in the game. He draws penalties with the best of them. He's a great PKer in his own right. He brings a speed element that most can't match. Also, if Sheahan is so much more superior to Helm offensively, then he should be out scoring him by a good margin, which isn't the case. I think people are just salty about Helm's contract.

 

[Yzerman1919*]

I don't get all the love for Sheahan honestly. Especially when compared to Helm. Money aside, Helm is BY FAR a more impactful player than Sheahan is.

I'm not a huge Riley fan. I think he is overrated by some, and I would easily throw him in as a trade piece. BUT, he is $2 million less than Helm. He has a big body that shields the puck allowing him to use his passing skills, and he has an underrated shot. Helm could barely squeak out a goal on the first line, he's almost $4 million/year. He has no hands. And I don't care if he can forecheck because he is fast. He can't pass and can't shoot, and he really doesn't even hit like he used to. It's a no brainer to keep Sheahan over Helm.

Helm is also a bit of a diva if you ask me. He has had a pretty injury prone career IMO and he played plenty of time with Pavel freaking Datsyuk, pretty much any NHL kids' dream, and he then goes and complains about his usage to the MEDIA. Well Helmer, if you had offensive skills you'd perform better there and stay there. But you are pretty much a fast player and thats where it starts and ends. Stop thinking you are a big deal.

I completely disagree. Someone disagreed with me earlier, but I actually think Sheahan is better defensively and works with skill better. He also worked on that top shutdown line with Abby and Glenny in the playoffs. Helm was busy slowing down Dats.

Sheahan is also better offensively, and his shot is much superior. I think he has another level. Helm is a third line guy who I think slows down our third line. His playmaking skills suck. I'd rather we not re-sign him at all..

Z-Frans-Gus
Tatar-Larkin-Abby
Vanek-Sheahan-Vanek
Miller-Glenny-Frk
Ott, Pulks

Swap Ott out with Frk, I don't think you can break that line up until it really fails so far man. I agree with everything you said. Riley doesn't kill offense because he has hands and a big body. Helm kills offense because he isn't a shooter and doesn't pass well.

Yeah, I pretty much 100% agree with your lineup.

Thanks! make it happen Kenny!

 

[Yzerman1919*]

What is we traded Tatar/Nyquist+Mantha+1st/2nd (depending on if he is signed or not) for Kevin Shattenkirk??? I proposed this in the Trade rumors section, and Blues fans were pretty receptive for it. We could ice this lineup.....

Z-Neilson-Tatar/Nyquist
Vanek-Larkin-Abby
AA-Sheahan-Frk
Ott-Glenny-Bertuzzi

That gives us 3 really balanced offensive lines. That third line could be lethal with AAs speed, and Riley sending him or feeding Frk's shot. The fourth line is now a decently skilled line, with a completely pain in the ass factor that we've lacked the last 5 years or so. It also gives kids like Frk, Bertuzzi, AA their time I think they deserve.

Defense would look like this:

DDK-Shattenkirk
Green-Smith
Kronwall-Ericsson
Sproul/Jensen

I realistically can't see Ericsson getting waived so I put him there. And it's a toss up for who takes the 7D. I think our D looks THAT much better with Shatty, and he's a righty. We'd have a bunch of options to QB our PP too.

 

[Frk It]

I realistically can't see Ericsson getting waived so I put him there. And it's a toss up for who takes the 7D. I think our D looks THAT much better with Shatty, and he's a righty. We'd have a bunch of options to QB our PP too.

Ericsson won't get waived, doesn't even make much sense because no one would claim him.

Best thing to do if we deem he isn't one of our 6 best defenseman (not sure he is) would be to LTIR him.

 

[Hammettf2b]

I'm not a huge Riley fan. I think he is overrated by some, and I would easily throw him in as a trade piece. BUT, he is $2 million less than Helm. He has a big body that shields the puck allowing him to use his passing skills, and he has an underrated shot. Helm could barely squeak out a goal on the first line, he's almost $4 million/year. He has no hands. And I don't care if he can forecheck because he is fast. He can't pass and can't shoot, and he really doesn't even hit like he used to. It's a no brainer to keep Sheahan over Helm.

Helm is also a bit of a diva if you ask me. He has had a pretty injury prone career IMO and he played plenty of time with Pavel freaking Datsyuk, pretty much any NHL kids' dream, and he then goes and complains about his usage to the MEDIA. Well Helmer, if you had offensive skills you'd perform better there and stay there. But you are pretty much a fast player and thats where it starts and ends. Stop thinking you are a big deal.

If Helm can't pass and can't shoot and is still putting up the same numbers as Sheahan then what does that tell you about Sheahan? As far as Helm complaining to the media goes, he knows he's not a first line player and thus wanted to play a role to reflect as such. I don't see the problem here. He openly said he wouldn't mind being a 3rd or 4th line guy, just as long as its consistent.

 

[Yzerman1919*]

Ericsson won't get waived, doesn't even make much sense because no one would claim him.

Best thing to do if we deem he isn't one of our 6 best defenseman (not sure he is) would be to LTIR him.

Fine by me! I don't care what Holland does to get rid of him, just get rid of him lmao. I put him in there because we know nothing will happen, he will still be making this team worse, but you know, country club.

If Helm can't pass and can't shoot and is still putting up the same numbers as Sheahan then what does that tell you about Sheahan? As far as Helm complaining to the media goes, he knows he's not a first line player and thus wanted to play a role to reflect as such. I don't see the problem here. He openly said he wouldn't mind being a 3rd or 4th line guy, just as long as its consistent.

It tells me that Sheahan is getting paid $2 million and Helm is getting paid $4 million for no reason. It also tells me he put up similar numbers playing with DATSYUK and Abdelkader and Tatar on the first line with net front PP time where he should be tipping pucks and jamming home a rebound here and there.

It tells me you are proving my point more. Helm is making $2 million more than Sheahan while putting up similar numbers playing with better opportunity and better line mates.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Fine by me! I don't care what Holland does to get rid of him, just get rid of him lmao. I put him in there because we know nothing will happen, he will still be making this team worse, but you know, country club.



It tells me that Sheahan is getting paid $2 million and Helm is getting paid $4 million for no reason. It also tells me he put up similar numbers playing with DATSYUK and Abdelkader and Tatar on the first line with net front PP time where he should be tipping pucks and jamming home a rebound here and there.

It tells me you are proving my point more. Helm is making $2 million more than Sheahan while putting up similar numbers playing with better opportunity and better line mates.

You keep bringing up money when I am not. I agree, it sucks paying Helm what he is being paid, but it doesn't mean I think he is less of a player than Sheahan because of it. All I said was I don't see all the love Sheahan is getting while MONEY ASIDE why Helm gets all the hate. IMHO Helm is the better player, period.

Also, I don't know why you keep mentioning Helm playing with better players. Everyone knows, INCLUDING HELM that he is not a top 6 player. That is not his fault. It's the coaches. It looks like Blashill is fixing that situation because Helm is now projected to center the 3rd line.

 

[Yzerman1919*]

You keep bringing up money when I am not. I agree, it sucks paying Helm what he is being paid, but it doesn't mean I think he is less of a player than Sheahan because of it. All I said was I don't see all the love Sheahan is getting while MONEY ASIDE why Helm gets all the hate. IMHO Helm is the better player, period.

Also, I don't know why you keep mentioning Helm playing with better players. Everyone knows, INCLUDING HELM that he is not a top 6 player. That is not his fault. It's the coaches. It looks like Blashill is fixing that situation because Helm is now projected to center the 3rd line.

It doesn't matter if it's his fault or not. He is producing similar numbers to Sheahan in that opportunity. So with a lesser role and lesser players flanking him, Sheahan=Helm.

How is Helm a superior player then? I guess if you want to get technical Sheahan has 6 more points than Helm the last 3 seasons. Getting to play on the first line...

The money issue just ADDS to it.

I'd like to see a turnover stat if there is one also. How many times do we see Helm make a bad pass or duff a shot and the other team takes the puck the other way......

Stone hands

 

[Hammettf2b]

It doesn't matter if it's his fault or not. He is producing similar numbers to Sheahan in that opportunity. So with a lesser role and lesser players flanking him, Sheahan=Helm.

How is Helm a superior player then? I guess if you want to get technical Sheahan has 6 more points than Helm the last 3 seasons. Getting to play on the first line...

The money issue just ADDS to it.

I'd like to see a turnover stat if there is one also. How many times do we see Helm make a bad pass or duff a shot and the other team takes the puck the other way......

Stone hands

We can agree to disagree. I think Helm brings more to the table while you think Sheahan brings more to the table.