2016-17 Champions Hockey League

[kabidjan18]

How far do ya'll think EC Salzburg can go?

 

[pulverapa]

Looks like Davos, Bern, Fribourg and Zurich could all easily win their group.. should they play this thing 100%. But I just feel like they're going to send all their young players once again..

Game on saturday. Not saying DIF will win easily, but I expect them to win against a bunch of Swiss players + Dicken.

 

[Slimmy]

How far do ya'll think EC Salzburg can go?

You mean Red Bull? I don't hold the Austrian league in very high regard. If they make it out of the group stage, that should be regarded as success, in my view. But then again, I have no idea what team they are fielding or who is coaching.

 

[lakers11]

I read somewhere that they are through to the next round already?

Yeah, but they're embarassing us on the ice. Either we're really that terrible or the players just arent motivated enough.

 

[Slimmy]

Yeah, but they're embarassing us on the ice. Either we're really that terrible or the players just arent motivated enough.

Since an overtime loss(?) was enough to get them through to the next round, I can see why they wouldn't play to the best of their abilities. Let's not forget that these games are essentially pre-season. If the teams feel that they can afford it they'll tamper with lines and feel out new formations.

 

[Ciccarelli]

Looks like Davos, Bern, Fribourg and Zurich could all easily win their group.. should they play this thing 100%.

Out of all the finnish and swedish teams I can honestly say that only KalPa would be an underdog against any swiss team so no, Davos is not a favorite against Djurgården and Zurich is not a favorite against Rauma. Some of these swiss guys just cant seem to get the fact that few old NHLers teamed with low level swiss player dont make a team that can compare against the finnish and swedish teams filled with good local players. Timo Helbling is a well respected guy in Switzerland he comes to Finland and what happens? The guy cant even keep up with the finnish junior players and is arguably one of the worst hockey players ever in the finnish league.

 

[kabidjan18]

You mean Red Bull? I don't hold the Austrian league in very high regard. If they make it out of the group stage, that should be regarded as success, in my view. But then again, I have no idea what team they are fielding or who is coaching.

Haha usually all the EBEL teams make it out of the group stage. Only in the first edition though the 2014-2015 one did two teams make it to the second round. Red Bull has a pretty good import group with some good domestic players as well. They beat Sheffield 8-1 but that's easy enough.

 

[Ciccarelli]

Haha usually all the EBEL teams make it out of the group stage. Only in the first edition though the 2014-2015 one did two teams make it to the second round. Red Bull has a pretty good import group with some good domestic players as well. They beat Sheffield 8-1 but that's easy enough.

Slimmy is probably underrating EBEL there but a top 4 spot for an austrian team would be a huge accomplishment. Id say top 8 for Salzburg if they are on the top of their game.

 

[Slimmy]

Haha usually all the EBEL teams make it out of the group stage. Only in the first edition though the 2014-2015 one did two teams make it to the second round. Red Bull has a pretty good import group with some good domestic players as well. They beat Sheffield 8-1 but that's easy enough.

Speaking in general terms about Austrian teams. Red Bull should of coarse be able to beat Sheffield and advance.. I'm underselling the league a bit but making it to the later rounds is a tall order, in my view.

 

[Slimmy]

Slimmy is probably underrating EBEL there but a top 4 spot for an austrian team would be a huge accomplishment. Id say top 8 for Salzburg if they are on the top of their game.

Top 8? They'd have to luck out on opponents in that case.

 

[kabidjan18]

Slimmy is probably underrating EBEL there but a top 4 spot for an austrian team would be a huge accomplishment. Id say top 8 for Salzburg if they are on the top of their game.

Well top 4 would be hard. I think Salzburg came pretty close to top 8 in 2014-2015 but the farthest they've ever gotten is round of 16. That said this team is really good. They added Brett Olson, Bill Thomas, and Raphael Herburger and suddenly last year's league leading scorer basically plays on the second line.

 

[Ciccarelli]

Well top 8 is what i think is realistic if everything goes fine and dandy for them. On paper they are not even among the 20 strongest teams. Olson and Thomas while both ok hockey players scored only 20 something points each last season in stronger leagues. For an austrian (or even swiss) teams the imports would have to be crazy good for them to be able to really compete against the swedish and finnish teams. The domestic players are just too far behind in quality.

 

[Mara]

Some of the top heavy Swiss teams are already perfectly capable of wiping the floor with Finnish teams, they have some really, really strong players there that would be absolutely top tier in Finland. Especially the mid and small Finnish teams don't have anywhere near the financial resources to compete on the marketplace for top talent. It probably won't be long until Switzerland catches up and even passes Finland in overall quality as long as the junior systems become a bit more consistent, which is the only advantage Finland currently has over Switzerland.

 

[Ciccarelli]

Some of the top heavy Swiss teams are already perfectly capable of wiping the floor with Finnish teams, they have some really, really strong players there that would be absolutely top tier in Finland. Especially the mid and small Finnish teams don't have anywhere near the financial resources to compete on the marketplace for top talent. It probably won't be long until Switzerland catches up and even passes Finland in overall quality as long as the junior systems become a bit more consistent, which is the only advantage Finland currently has over Switzerland.

All just speculation with zero facts at all. IF their junior production gets better they COULD compete with Finland in 10+ years but until that just be happy that your league is in the same tier with Germany and Czechs.

And as you said, top heavy. One line of stars cant do the trick if your local players cant even skate backwards (see Timo Helbling for example). Take out Jukurits whole 1st line and replace it with five of the best NLA players and that team still wouldnt reach the play-offs in the finnish league. Its a game of four lines. And us some smart feller has once said, goalies make 50% of the team and I think we all know which have better goalies.

 

[themelkman]

You really have to judge on a team by team basis. Is there maybe some Swiss teams who could beat Finnish teams? Yes. But the league isn't better

 

[pulverapa]

The best Swiss teams would be 8-12 spot in the Swedish and Finnish League. They lack the depth of the Nordic teams. On a good day, Swiss teams can beat any Finn/Swe team, but in the long run they're too far behind. As they have always been. However, attendance ratings and the money in Switzerland is impressive. That's at least a good start. The league is healthy! Something you can't say about KHL for instance.

We've seen the difference between Finland/Sweden and the other leagues for several years now in the CHL and I think it's now safe to conclude the differences between the leagues.

 

[Mara]

All just speculation with zero facts

Just my personal thoughts after years of observation.

your league is in the same tier with Germany and Czechs.

"My league", lol. I'm Finnish. No idea why you're here with such a confrontational attitude. It's not a tribal battlefield.

Its a game of four lines.

Exactly the overall point of my post.

You really have to judge on a team by team basis. Is there maybe some Swiss teams who could beat Finnish teams? Yes. But the league isn't better

Exactly. What the Swiss require now is development in the junior system. The money is there, so the road is open for them to become a top tier hockey nation.

 

[Slimmy]

Just my personal thoughts after years of observation.
Exactly. What the Swiss require now is development in the junior system. The money is there, so the road is open for them to become a top tier hockey nation.

You have a look at Skellefteå, see what they are doing and you'll see that money is far from the answer. The Swiss obviously already have and Zürich acquired Wallson and Johansson from Skellefteå as their new coaching constellation.

 

[Yabob]

I just wish the teams with big arenas (note: relatively big when compared to the teams taking part) that already know from previous year(s) that they'll have a hard time filling the arena at this time of the year, gave tickets away to local schools for kids or something, because the empty arenas look really depressing and don't exactly improve CHL's image.

It certainly wouldn't hurt.

Linköping is trying a different solution for their home game against Jyp. Everyone who show up before 6:30 pm. wearing a team jersey (Linköping's I guess) and/or a Linköping scarf will get in for free. Will be interesting to see if it works.

 

[Falling Snow]

Out of all the finnish and swedish teams I can honestly say that only KalPa would be an underdog against any swiss team so no, Davos is not a favorite against Djurgården and Zurich is not a favorite against Rauma. Some of these swiss guys just cant seem to get the fact that few old NHLers teamed with low level swiss player dont make a team that can compare against the finnish and swedish teams filled with good local players. Timo Helbling is a well respected guy in Switzerland he comes to Finland and what happens? The guy cant even keep up with the finnish junior players and is arguably one of the worst hockey players ever in the finnish league.

The most swiss players will stay in NLA because of money, when they dont get a contract anymore then they will try their luck elsewhere.
For me Djurgarden - Davos is 60 % - 40 % for swedish team, but Zurich is favorite against Rauma no question.
low level swiss players ? the example with timo helbling shows me that you dont have the know how about swiss players. there alot of swiss players who could easy play in FEL or SEL.
Hiller, Brunner, Diaz, Rod, Suri, Martschini, Hollenstein ,Bieber, Fora, Blindenbacher , Geering, Wick, Herzog, Genoni , Plüss , Blum , Dubois, Bodenmann, Vauclair, Hoffmann, Sprunger, Ambühl etc. there would be much more.
And then there also diffrence in style of play : FEL =conservative defence hockey , NLA =Coast to Coast Run and gun hockey.

in my opinion SEL and FEL is ahead of NLA especially in depth, but swiss top teams can compete.

 

[Slimmy]

The most swiss players will stay in NLA because of money, when they dont get a contract anymore then they will try their luck elsewhere.
For me Djurgarden - Davos is 60 % - 40 % for swedish team, but Zurich is favorite against Rauma no question.
low level swiss players ? the example with timo helbling shows me that you dont have the know how about swiss players. there alot of swiss players who could easy play in FEL or SEL.
Hiller, Brunner, Diaz, Rod, Suri, Martschini, Hollenstein ,Bieber, Fora, Blindenbacher , Geering, Wick, Herzog, Genoni , Plüss , Blum , Dubois, Bodenmann, Vauclair, Hoffmann, Sprunger, Ambühl etc. there would be much more.
And then there also diffrence in style of play : FEL =conservative defence hockey , NLA =Coast to Coast Run and gun hockey.

in my opinion SEL and FEL is ahead of NLA especially in depth, but swiss top teams can compete.

They absolutely can compete. Their biggest flaw, in my opinion, is structure. I'm curious to see what Wallson and Johansson can do in Zürich.
I have very fond memories of Plüss. A well liked player in Göteborg

 

[scipio]

All just speculation with zero facts at all. IF their junior production gets better they COULD compete with Finland in 10+ years but until that just be happy that your league is in the same tier with Germany and Czechs.

And as you said, top heavy. One line of stars cant do the trick if your local players cant even skate backwards (see Timo Helbling for example). Take out Jukurits whole 1st line and replace it with five of the best NLA players and that team still wouldnt reach the play-offs in the finnish league. Its a game of four lines. And us some smart feller has once said, goalies make 50% of the team and I think we all know which have better goalies.

With all due respect, but you lack a understanding of the Swiss league and Swiss players.

 

[Jablkon]

I found bad stream of Vitkovice - Karpat. I was lik "thats a great power play by Vitkovice" till I realized that Vitkovice are in white. That hurts...

 

[torero]

The most swiss players will stay in NLA because of money, when they dont get a contract anymore then they will try their luck elsewhere.
For me Djurgarden - Davos is 60 % - 40 % for swedish team, but Zurich is favorite against Rauma no question.
low level swiss players ? the example with timo helbling shows me that you dont have the know how about swiss players. there alot of swiss players who could easy play in FEL or SEL.
Hiller, Brunner, Diaz, Rod, Suri, Martschini, Hollenstein ,Bieber, Fora, Blindenbacher , Geering, Wick, Herzog, Genoni , Plüss , Blum , Dubois, Bodenmann, Vauclair, Hoffmann, Sprunger, Ambühl etc. there would be much more.
And then there also diffrence in style of play : FEL =conservative defence hockey , NLA =Coast to Coast Run and gun hockey.

in my opinion SEL and FEL is ahead of NLA especially in depth, but swiss top teams can compete.

i agree on paper with you, yet we have to see that Ambri can beat a ZCS or SCB any evening !
I see the NLA as much more competitive than it use to be. Theferfore stating that Top NLA can compete and bottom can't would be exagerated.

i believe that top and bottom NLA teams are closer ... remains to determin, tks to CHL and other opportunities what are the best leagues. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Swiss well higher than what most people think. (not necessarily higher than SEL ... but maybe not too far and on paar with FEL ... all this is pure speculation anyway !)

 

[Jablkon]

Shame that Vitkovice probably wont appear in CHL next year. These games against Karpat are fun to watch. Fans of deffensive hockey