2015 IIHF World Junior Championships discussion thread Part 2

[stokes84]

Let me start by saying I think that McDavid solidified his hold on #1, and I thought Eichel started trying to do too much the latter stages of USA's tourney. McDavid had the better tournament overall, IMO, but I thought Eichel was better earlier in the tournament. Some will assert the injury factor for McDavid, and that may be true, but that doesn't change the fact that I thought Eichel was the better player for the first 3-4 games.

Also, as others stated, I think McDavid had a much easier go of it. Reinhart was playing against and getting matched up against every other team's top forwards and defense pairings. That's a huge advantage for McD, who would otherwise get those matchups. Eichel was facing teams' top checking lines and defensive pairings on every shift. That's at least relevant to the analysis.

I also think Osiecki did a terrible job with the lines. Like Milano or not, he's another guy who can create, and instead of playing him with Eichel--and thereby taking some of the playmaking weight of Jack's shoulders--Osiecki stuck Milano with Larkin and Fasching, who were having no issues creating opportunities regardless of their third linemate. Then instead of giving Eichel-Tuch a skilled third linemate like Schmaltz or Milano, he frequently gave them Miles Wood or John Hayden--they also had Motte, who's a nice player, but not in any way a creative player.



Didn't Canada play seven games and the USA five?

Honest question: How many of those points were against USA, Finland, and Russia for McDavid?

He had 1 goal, 1 assist in those 3 games.

 

[FearTheBeard]

Didn't Canada play seven games and the USA five?

Honest question: How many of those points were against USA, Finland, and Russia for McDavid?

Yeah it was 7 and 5, my mistake

As Stokes said he had 1G and 1A, but why can't we include the semi-finals vs the Slovaks? They did win the bronze after all, and looked better than the Fins aside from game 1. He had 3 points in that game.

 

[Jame]

so, with regards to McDavid/Eichel and the Sabres and the tank... Reinhart was ****ing awesome.

 

[stokes84]

Yeah it was 7 and 5, my mistake

As Stokes said he had 1G and 1A, but why can't we include the semi-finals vs the Slovaks? They did win the bronze after all, and looked better than the Fins aside from game 1. He had 3 points in that game.

You can, but keep in mind that Eichel skated circles around the Slovaks, and just didn't get rewarded. Nobody is knocking McDavid. He is AMAZING. But all of this effort to show how superior he is to Eichel is just eye roll worthy.

 

[FearTheBeard]

You can, but keep in mind that Eichel skated circles around the Slovaks, and just didn't get rewarded. Nobody is knocking McDavid. He is AMAZING. But all of this effort to show how superior he is to Eichel is just eye roll worthy.

well, 1 poster is. Is there an ignore feature on this board?

 

[KennyFnPowers*]

You can, but keep in mind that Eichel skated circles around the Slovaks, and just didn't get rewarded. Nobody is knocking McDavid. He is AMAZING. But all of this effort to show how superior he is to Eichel is just eye roll worthy.

thank you... a sane person on the H-Effff! I was beginning to wonder if there were any left

 

[cybresabre]

blame the hype machine... if you had an argument you'd probably make it... this board isn't (completely) censored.. state your case. or just make more snarky non-constructive comments. ah right, the anonymous public internet forum status quo » that's more like it!

Snark serves a purpose when someone states a questionable opinion and then says that it's so logically sound that it's above questioning.

The media is going to go nuts about McDavid because they get ad revenue from driving the frenzy. The kid isn't responsible for the crazy hype the media plugs into everyone's eyes and ears, he goes out and plays the game and he played very well. He didn't heal the sick or impregnate a five mile radius of humans with his battle cry. Anyone who expected that went home disappointed, but they weren't going into things realistically.

He came back from a lengthy break and got more dangerous as his hands got back up to speed. He put the defensemen on their heels with his speed and puck control, he distributed well from every spot on the ice, he backchecked impressively hard and effectively, there wasn't a player in the tournament who put up more points, and he scored a goal in a one-goal victory that ended with gold around his neck. His goal wasn't a no brainer/gimmie--smart players read plays well and put themselves in good positions, he took the pass well, he had the speed to not get caught, and he wasn't too "nervous" to bury the puck when it mattered most. He played on the second line on an exceptionally deep team. He didn't need to put the team on his back; he just needed to mesh with Lazar and attack whichever d-men got a reprieve from the Reinhart-line.

Put Eichel in the same scenario and he would have looked damn good, too. I'm not a national team homer (Canucks are overbearing and I somehow hold Nagano against team USA) so I like to watch the games for the fun, competitive hockey. I would take either guy in a heartbeat.

 

[old kummelweck]

Why didn't Zadarov play?

 

[sabresfan129103]

Why didn't Zadarov play?

Injuries on D here in Buffalo. The original plan was to send him.

 

[sabrebuild]

so, with regards to McDavid/Eichel and the Sabres and the tank... Reinhart was ****ing awesome.

But but we don't have any blue chip forward prospects, are forwards all suck....

 

[old kummelweck]

Injuries on D here in Buffalo. The original plan was to send him.

That was a stupid decision. Injuries or not, he should have gone.

 

[FearTheBeard]

Justin Bourne's take on Reinhart from Friedmans 30 thoughts:

11. If you’re Winnipeg, you’re giddy about Josh Morrissey and Nic Petan. If you’re the Rangers and/or the Senators, you’re thrilled with how your loans of Anthony Duclair and Curtis Lazar worked out. But, if you’re the Coyotes and Sabres, you’ve got to be ecstatic with Max Domi and Sam Reinhart. In the last five minutes, there were two brief shifts where either the Domi/Duclair/Reinhart line or Lazar were not on the ice. (The captain was with Frederik Gauthier and either Lawson Crouse or Connor McDavid.)


I’ve tweeted quite a bit about Sam Reinhart over the past few months, so I’d like to clarify my thoughts on him:

• I think he’s a really polished player, one of those guys that does things, as coaches love to say, “the right way.” He’s positionally sound, he makes great decisions with the puck and is the type of guy you can win with.

• He’s not a very good skater. He gets around fine, but he’s kind of upright and straight-legged, which means wasted power and a high center of gravity. Those things can change (and actually, the room for improvement might be something the Sabres find appealing), but when playing against men, I don’t care how polished you are, if you’re too slow and easy to push around, you’re not going to be able to get to where you need to demonstrate that polish.

• I see his ceiling as something of a Justin Williams, which is absolutely a compliment. Not gonna overwhelm anyone with raw skills, but will make more good plays then bad, which is all you can ask.

I dont agree Justin Williams is his ceiling. I think with improved speed and skating his ceiling is sky high, and Williams is more his floor. Time will tell

 

[ZeroPT*]

I don't think the author knows what "ceiling" means. He's comparing Reinhart and Williams stylistically. That's a comparison. His ceiling is much higher than Williams at his peak.

It's an odd comparison anyway because one is a scoring winger and the other is a two-way center.

 

[SabresFan26]

Justin Williams is not a good comparison at all, totally different players.

 

[Moskau]

I don't think the author knows what "ceiling" means. He's comparing Reinhart and Williams stylistically. That's a comparison. His ceiling is much higher than Williams at his peak.

It's an odd comparison anyway because one is a scoring winger and the other is a two-way center.

Williams is also much grittier than Reinhart the same way that Bergeron and Krejci are also grittier. Normally that doesn't matter but it's actually a part of how their style works so it's hard to compare. Henrik Sedin is probably the best style comparison.

I didn't get to watch much of Larionov in his prime but maybe Craig Button's comparison to The Professor is the best.

 

[FearTheBeard]

Even if they were similar players I don't know how you can say a player like Justin Williams is a ceiling for a player as gifted as Sam

 

[SabresFan26]

Williams is also much grittier than Reinhart the same way that Bergeron and Krejci are also grittier. Normally that doesn't matter but it's actually a part of how their style works so it's hard to compare. Henrik Sedin is probably the best style comparison.

I didn't get to watch much or Larionov in his prime but maybe Craig Button's comparison to The Professor is the best.

I agree Sedin would probably be the closest comparison for me now in style. Larionov would be another good one too.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Stylistically accurate or not, I always thought a reasonable projection for Reinhart was Paul Stastny.

 

[sabrebuild]

Stylistically accurate or not, I always thought a reasonable projection for Reinhart was Paul Stastny.

While possible, I would be quite disappointed if that's what Reinhart topped out at.

 

[Ron C.]

If all goes right, McEichel/Reinhart is not too bad as 1C/2C along with Girgs/Grigs as 3C. I was hoping to then trade up for Crouse in the teens, but after his WJC tournament, that's not happening.

 

[FamilyGuy716]

so, with regards to McDavid/Eichel and the Sabres and the tank... Reinhart was ****ing awesome.

I watched a few of the games and he was ****ing awesome. He's going to be a great NHL player once he gets stronger and faster.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

While possible, I would be quite disappointed if that's what Reinhart topped out at.

I think it's kinda bearish myself, but I also think it's the player we're practically guaranteed to get from Reinhart. And I don't know what parts about his junior game will translate at the next level that makes him better than Staz. He might be better offensively. He might win a ****ing Selke.

I'm not about to compare him to a 100+ point Hart Trophy winner who gets to play with his clone just yet.

 

[sabrebuild]

I think it's kinda bearish myself, but I also think it's the player we're practically guaranteed to get from Reinhart. And I don't know what parts about his junior game will translate at the next level that makes him better than Staz. He might be better offensively. He might win a ****ing Selke.

I'm not about to compare him to a 100+ point Hart Trophy winner who gets to play with his clone just yet.

Ya I don't want to get crazy and say he is Toews, but assuming he gets his strength and speed up he really should be that guy give or take some. They are so similar, including Toews as a prospect was knocked for not being explosive enough or a gamebreaker... I think he probably won't be as effective offensively as Toews at even strength, but damn on the pp, Reinhart will pass his ass off.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

I will say that I giggled like a schoolgirl when I read about his text to his coach.

 

[KennyFnPowers*]

Snark serves a purpose when someone states a questionable opinion and then says that it's so logically sound that it's above questioning.

The media is going to go nuts about McDavid because they get ad revenue from driving the frenzy. The kid isn't responsible for the crazy hype the media plugs into everyone's eyes and ears, he goes out and plays the game and he played very well. He didn't heal the sick or impregnate a five mile radius of humans with his battle cry. Anyone who expected that went home disappointed, but they weren't going into things realistically.

He came back from a lengthy break and got more dangerous as his hands got back up to speed. He put the defensemen on their heels with his speed and puck control, he distributed well from every spot on the ice, he backchecked impressively hard and effectively, there wasn't a player in the tournament who put up more points, and he scored a goal in a one-goal victory that ended with gold around his neck. His goal wasn't a no brainer/gimmie--smart players read plays well and put themselves in good positions, he took the pass well, he had the speed to not get caught, and he wasn't too "nervous" to bury the puck when it mattered most. He played on the second line on an exceptionally deep team. He didn't need to put the team on his back; he just needed to mesh with Lazar and attack whichever d-men got a reprieve from the Reinhart-line.

Put Eichel in the same scenario and he would have looked damn good, too. I'm not a national team homer (Canucks are overbearing and I somehow hold Nagano against team USA) so I like to watch the games for the fun, competitive hockey. I would take either guy in a heartbeat.

I agree with you (ditto on all your posts too), and I would draft either of them in a hot second as well - laughing all the way to the finals! I think some were really pushing/defending the hype on here, and I didn't agree... it's no bigs, def not worth arguing over.. Cheers!